Author Topic: Electrical problem on my 400F  (Read 3202 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fullofdays

  • Broken
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • good old age, old and full of days - Gen 25:8
Electrical problem on my 400F
« on: April 11, 2011, 05:28:53 PM »
Bike went dead and I'm trying to chase the short.  I've got a multimeter but am unsure of where to start in order to find the source of the problem.  Battery is good.  HondaMan ignition installed and she was running like a top.  Ground to the frame is good.  There was a 15A fuse that was slightly melted and I replaced it.  Still nothing when I turn the key to the on position.  Pulled the tank and the ground to the coils is good too.  I'm thinking it might be a problem with the switch on the right handlebar or even a pinched wire in the bars or perhaps the ignition switch went kaput.  Can anyone walk me through how to target where the problem is?

Electronics are not my language.   :o
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 11:37:31 AM by fullofdays »

Offline fullofdays

  • Broken
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • good old age, old and full of days - Gen 25:8
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2011, 06:16:11 AM »
anyone have experience here with electrical gremlins?  What's the best way to isolate the problem and fix it?  I want to ride!

Offline flybox1

  • My wife thinks I'm a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,289
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2011, 07:21:33 AM »
First....get yourself a good copy of the 400F's electrical diagram. 
Just like you, i was an electricalnoob, so this may not be the most direct troubleshooting of an electrical sytem, but it got me to the point where i knew the layout of my system, and, i knew that all my connections were good and solid.  as you go along, you'll find areas that need attention. dont skip a thing.
Take out your battery and put it on a float charger.
I started within my headlamp.
each electrical connection i took apart and made sure was cleaned of grime,gently scuffed for good connection, dielectric greased, and insulated well when put back together.  resolder anything that was soldered, but looks weak or corroded.
Keyswitch, take it out, open it up and clean out that black goo.  regrease and reassemble.  check wires for corrosion, melted sleeves, and shorts.  properly replace any that need it.
do the L&R handlebar switches.
check all grounds at battery, frame, and marker lights.  clean all block connector pins as best you can.
voltage regulator
out that melted fuse holder take and splice in a new 15A blade type.

do a search function here for charging system troubleshooting, and walk thru the steps to see if your v-reg is charging properly. your v-reg can be gently tuned.  should also be in your shop manual.
probably enough to get you started...



'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
77/78 cool 2 member #3
"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mineā€¦"

Offline RickB

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 571
    • Pop Magazine
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2011, 07:38:23 AM »
fullofdays,

I am up to my eyeballs in electrical problems on my CB400F too.

I also had problems with my right hand switch drawing too much power from my Dyna ignition. However if you have stock coils, you probably don't have that problem.

Here's two things that have caused me to blow that 15A fuse.

1. I have a CB350F right hand switch, not the CB400F switch. They have different polarities on the push button start. One sends power down the bikes earth wire that fries your silicone diode/rectifier (the little fuse type rectifier next to the voltage regulator on the left hand side, NOT the big rectifier on the right hand side). That means blown fuse. Have you recently changed that switch gear? Or plugged something into the green with red stripe wire somewhere? Has your silicone rectifier burnt out and you've not noticed?

2. I have been trying to find out why my bike isn't charging. In the process I accidentally plugged the black, white and green wires of the voltage rectifier on the wrong terminals. Blown fuse. Have you changed anything on the voltage rectifier perhaps?

Good luck to you mate,
Rick.

Offline fullofdays

  • Broken
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • good old age, old and full of days - Gen 25:8
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2011, 11:40:54 AM »
Rick B,

You got a pic or drawing that shows the little rectifier you are talking about?  I need a visual here. 

Also, what/where is the switch gear?  The bike has great condition original wiring and I've added a hondaman iginition which was running top notch without a hitch before it just died on me while riding.  I was thinking there is something going on with the key ignition or kill switch on the right handlebar since nothing will turn on.

Cheers Rick!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 11:44:22 AM by fullofdays »

Offline DarcyCB400F

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 338
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2011, 07:14:22 PM »
Here's a great wiring diagram. PM me if you want the high res version... I can email it to you.
This is the only accurate wiring diagram that I was able to find for my CB400F.
1977 CJ360T
1977 CB400F
1980 CB900 Custom
1981 GS550L
1989 DR200R
1998 VT1100C2 ACE
1999 XR400R
2006 CR230F
2007 HD Road King

Offline RickB

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 571
    • Pop Magazine
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2011, 08:47:57 PM »
fullofdays.

You can see at the bottom of this post what it looks like when it's fried and where it's supposed to go.

Now I have heard that not all market CB400F's had this type of silicone rectifier/diode so yours might look slightly different.

By switch gear I just meant your right hand handlebar controls (stop/run/stop, push button start etc).

If all your fuses are good, then perhaps it is an ignition problem but I don't know. Get a multimeter and start checking for resistance (you'll find plenty of walkthroughs on this forum on how to do that). I know nothing about electronics. As I said, I'm up to my eyeballs in trying to sort it out right now!

Rick.

Offline fasturd

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 607
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2011, 09:42:53 PM »
Before you pull all your hair out. Take a look again at that fuse box. You may have issues right there if you had a wonky fuse. take out all the fuses and test them or just get new ones. Honda used a wierd size but you can get them on ebay etc.

It is amazing what just a bit of corrosion will do.

Then take a look and make sure everything you touched when you were installing the Hondaman ignition is done correctly and you didn't inadvertantly loosen something that then failed during your ride.

Hard to say for sure with out being there to test and see.

good luck.
13 in the garage and counting...

Link to my link...   http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=58422.0

Offline fullofdays

  • Broken
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • good old age, old and full of days - Gen 25:8
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2011, 04:39:05 AM »
Thanks so much for all the help here guys.  This forum of CB owners is so helpful.

So stealing RickB's pic    ;D , The wires are appropriately attached to the rectifier (or whatever its called on the left arrow).  There's a second green wire that's not attached to anything and is hanging behind the round cylinder thing across the top but has the same slide style end on it.  Where in the world does it go?  I'm assuming it's the same as the second green wire? (right arrow)


« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 05:12:12 AM by fullofdays »

Offline fullofdays

  • Broken
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • good old age, old and full of days - Gen 25:8
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2011, 05:28:07 AM »
Does the green wire go on the back of this rubber mounted piece?  The black and grey wires go into this piece and are wrapped along with this green wire.  All have the same connector.  hmmm?



« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 05:31:16 AM by fullofdays »

Offline RickB

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 571
    • Pop Magazine
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2011, 05:38:09 AM »
fullofdays,

Steal away, they're there to be used.

The component on the left is the voltage regulator. The rectifier is the finned black box on the other side of the bike near the battery.

The plain green wire on the right is connected to the flasher for the indicators. It's the big silver cylinder thing just to the left of your right arrow. There should be three wires going into it. If you look at the wiring diagram Darcy posted you'll see it labeled WINKER RELAY and it has a black, green and gray wire connecting to it.

If you're missing that part you may have an aftermarket flasher and/or LED lights.

I doubt having that disconnected will stop your bike from starting but I really don't know. Plug them back in and see. It would be very easy to pull those wires out by accident when getting at the fuse box.

Let me know how you go,
Rick.

Offline fullofdays

  • Broken
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • good old age, old and full of days - Gen 25:8
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2011, 08:10:16 AM »
well the box with the black and grey wires (in pic below )takes the place of your round metal cyl which controls the blinkers...  That wouldnt cause a total short in the bike to where the key ignition switch doesnt turn on any lights at all...  I'm thinking HondaMan might be able to help me source the issue since he's the resident expert on electronics here. 

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj92/rossi4/garage/IMG_20110413_082241.jpg?t=1302697547

Offline number13

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 521
  • 1973 CB500, 2002 VT750DC
    • Sound Exchange
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2011, 08:24:42 AM »
I think you may be right about the key switch, those are notoriously
wonky and if it has never been replaced it should be.
Bikes parked out front mean good chicken-fried steak inside.

Offline fullofdays

  • Broken
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • good old age, old and full of days - Gen 25:8
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2011, 08:29:19 AM »
Where's the best place to purchase a new key switch?  Is there a replacement guide on the site anywhere for a 400F ignition key switch replacement?  I'm going to look through the right side rectifier on the bike to ensure that everything is connected and clean and not fried. 

Just doesnt make sense that the bike would die suddenly like that due to an iginition switch fail.

Hmmm :-\

Offline RickB

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 571
    • Pop Magazine
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2011, 07:02:21 PM »
Given how cheap those ignition barrels are on eBay and the like (less than $30), maybe it's worth a shot? Unless you'd rather not by a cheapo then maybe someone like David Silver Spares in the UK or Bike Bandit in the US?

Offline fullofdays

  • Broken
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • good old age, old and full of days - Gen 25:8
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2011, 06:39:09 AM »
I just gotta spend  some time testing and checking over my CB400.  This requires me to get comfortable with the basic blocking and tackling of motorcycle electronics.  Easy for some.  Not for me!



FYI  regarding buying a new keyed ignition barrel...
Did a little research and turns out that Emgo makes the David Silver spares ignition barrel and pretty much all the ignition barrels on ebay, etc. 

Offline fullofdays

  • Broken
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • good old age, old and full of days - Gen 25:8
Re: Electrical problem on my 400F
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2011, 11:08:55 AM »
Update:

Got the bike on my table lift and started taking a better look at things.  Turns out the Fuse box fried up at the 15A main fuse... 



Sounds like the rectifier might be shorting out.  Anybody know how to test a rectifier with a multimeter?

FYI-- @RICKB  The below threads were so helpful for me.  I am going to do the fuse box mod shown in the thread below:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20034.0


http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=68993.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=24830.0



« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 06:05:00 AM by fullofdays »