Author Topic: Broken bolt + broken extractor = broken heart. (Read 12465 times)

Lavis500 · « **on:** April 16, 2011, 04:17:56 PM »

I started to button everything back up last night, put the wheels on my 500K2, and torque down everything that hadn't been yet. I was screwing in the right fork oil drain bolt, and right as the head seated - SNAP! the shaft broke about 1/8 inch down. OK, bothersome, but not terrible... So I took out my cobalt bits and went to drill a pilot hole. I'm drilling... drilling... SNAP. Right in half. I was frustrated, and I decided to finish up for the night.

So, today I grabbed a new set of cobalt bits and came back with renewed spirit. I drill a satisfactory pilot hole and take an E2 extractor (the spiral type), tapped it into the hole gently with a small hammer, put it in the vise grips and turned. The first few times it wouldn't catch. I tried again and it caught. Next - SNAP!! The extractor broke... flush with the opening of the hole.

Fast forward to now - I have tried drilling through, punching it, heating it, and I am at wit's end. I've come to terms with the fact that if this is at all reparable I'll have to helicoil. I've decided that helicoils won't affect the sealing capabilities of the hole because it is ultimately the bolt head against the copper washer that creates the seal. I just need to figure out how to remove the remains... I also tried going to the hardware store for left hand fluted drill bits, but they were utterly clueless. The closest sears is a half hour drive, so if there are other easier options available (hahaha) then I'd like to try them

PLEASE HELP!!

mrrch · « **Reply #1 on:** April 16, 2011, 04:47:39 PM »

Is the broken extractor still in there?

Lavis500 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 16, 2011, 04:49:44 PM »

Yes. The broken extractor was stuck flush in the pilot hole.

tlbranth · « **Reply #3 on:** April 16, 2011, 04:49:55 PM »

What a bummer. Lavis, it seems like every time I run into one of these undoable tasks, I end up using my Dremel tool to get it done. Mine is close to 40 years old so if you have one, I'm sure it's better than mine. Anyhow, as a first go at it, how about chucking a small grinding disc and grinding a slot for a screwdriver blade. Before using the screwdriver. bang in some wood shims parallel with the slot to try and coax the ez-out into not busting. Then maybe use an impact screwdriver and bash it good with a hammer. You're not going to be drilling into drill bits or ez-outs so you need to look into what grinding tools will do this for you.....and it's probably going to be a multi-step process. Good luck mate. Keep us posted.

stueveone · « **Reply #4 on:** April 16, 2011, 04:51:43 PM »

+1 on flat notch then impact driver

Lavis500 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 16, 2011, 04:54:45 PM »

tlbranth, while I'm familiar with the process you're talking about, I don't think it's applicable here. ATM, the remaining pieces are almost 1/4 inch down the hole. I think drilling that initial pilot hole did a lot more harm than good. My attempts at removing the extractor left the remaining exposed threads marred and almost smooth, which is why I anticipate having to helicoil. I might give my dremel another try, but I'm not sure what I can use that will have that kind of reach. Do they make cobalt dremel bits?

mrrch · « **Reply #6 on:** April 16, 2011, 04:59:13 PM »

The drain bolt is a short one to start with, is it possible you drilled too far thru it and the extractor is stuck in some other fork internal?
It's odd that it would be stuck so badly if it was just out.

haill · « **Reply #7 on:** April 16, 2011, 05:03:10 PM »

had some luck with welding an nut onto the broken extractor then backing it out. sometimes you can even get a stuck bolt out this way for the heat helps to loosen things up.
have even used an old closed ended wrench and welded that to the broken bolt. Even if the bolt is broken off down into the thread you can build up the weld then introduce the nut when it's built up enough to put some real heat to it.

Lavis500 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 16, 2011, 05:09:43 PM »

Again, the bolt didn't break flush at the head, but a bit of the way down the hole. Welding anything to it would have been fairly difficult, even if I had any welding experience...

The way it looks, I think my pilot hole went slightly diagonal and at the end it might have gone into the fork's female threads. That would probably be why it wouldn't budge at all. Where I am not it looks like it's just going to be one long drilling endeavor. It's going, just very....

very...

slowly...

It's not going to look pretty when I'm done. However, so long as I can make a bolt fit in there and it keeps the oil in, I don't really care. Any hints to make this go any faster are appreciated.

EDIT:

Also, FWIW I pulled the fork lower off again. Whatever is stuck, it is only in the aluminum fork lower body itself and none of the other internal components.

Lavis500 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 16, 2011, 05:15:43 PM »

Ok, idea: So, what is in the hole seems to be holding fairly well. What if I filled the hole with something like alumiweld or some other permanent fix that would bond with the aluminum? Whenever I need to change my fork oil I could just use the allen head bolt that connects the lower to the upper. It would be 10x less of a PITA and probably just as functional. Ideas? Gripes? Any reasons it wouldn't work?

wildcatmahone · « **Reply #10 on:** April 16, 2011, 05:29:32 PM »

Daaaamn that's a tough one man. Yeh slotting with a Dremel hss cutting wheel and impact driver works well if you have a stub to work with. Whatever you do you need to take that fork lower off to get it repaired As far as I know short of using spark erosion or wire edm is to drill it out with a harder metal such as powdered steel or carbide. Use a drill press you need as much rigidity as you can find. Look into a broken tap extractor such as this, http://www.omegadrill.com/default.html. Maybe get a good tig welder to build up enough steel on top of the sheared bolt to get some vise gripes on it. Unfortunately there's no cheap solution now good luck.

Lavis500 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2011, 05:33:10 PM »

I'm just going to go with my last idea. This is getting nowhere fast. I'll be investing in some type of aluminum welding compound and I will simply weld the hole shut. it means that I will have to remove my wheel every time that I need to change my fork oil, but at least that is only once a year/6,000 miles.

Thanks for all the help guys. Now if I only knew why that bolt sheared...

wildcatmahone · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2011, 05:35:35 PM »

Fwiw a replacement CB500 fork leg shouldn't be too hard to find...

Lavis500 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 16, 2011, 06:26:48 PM »

I went to autozone since it was the closest place with tools and supplies. (ace closed 3 hrs ago and lowes is a ways out) I asked if they had a brazing kit and they showed me what they had. The guy said I can't braze aluminum, but I showed him right on the package where it included an aluminum brazing rod. Then he mentioned that the bolt and the extractor remains will not bond with the aluminum brazing rod. This made sense to me, and so he sold me on another idea. I can already hear all of you screaming "NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" He convinced me that J-B Weld was the best way to go because it would bond with everything in the hole and would be able to withstand more pressure. He didn't stand any advantage by selling me the J-B Weld as it was 1/4 the price of the other stuff, so I think his advice may be legit. I guess we'll see how this goes!

Quote from: wildcatmahone on April 16, 2011, 05:35:35 PM

Fwiw a replacement CB500 fork leg shouldn't be too hard to find...

True, and I wouldn't be opposed if it weren't for 2 reasons: 1) I JUST changed the seals on this and 2) I'm deploying to Afghanistan in less than a month.

For now I just want to get her together and as close to rideable as I can before I leave. When I get back I'll finish everything. I'll just as "replace the fork lowers" to the list of things to do if I have more than a year of dwell time. If I'm only at home for a year before we leave AGAIN, then I want as little down time as possible.

donpark1086 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 16, 2011, 06:28:31 PM »

Diamond Dremel with lots of cooling water with dishwashing soap. And patience!

madmtnmotors · « **Reply #15 on:** April 16, 2011, 06:43:44 PM »

Quote from: donpark1086 on April 16, 2011, 06:28:31 PM

Diamond Dremel with lots of cooling water with dishwashing soap. And patience!

I too have used diamond stone dremel tips to grind out the remains of a broken extractor... it will definitely try your patience!

Keep your head down over there and come back safe.

Lavis500 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 16, 2011, 06:48:45 PM »

Diamond stone dremel tips?? Wow, ok. I'll keep that in mind for future work. Hopefully I won't be breaking any more extractors...

scottly · « **Reply #17 on:** April 16, 2011, 09:02:01 PM »

OK, if the short- term fix is with J-B weld: try to tap a few threads into the hole, and grind down a screw to match the depth of the hole. Clean with brake-cleaner, allowing the cleaner to thoroughly dry, apply J-B to the screw, and screw it in snug. (Grind the end off a 1/4"-28 tap to get past most of the tapered part)
Let cure for 24 hours, then ride!

madmtnmotors · « **Reply #18 on:** April 16, 2011, 09:25:26 PM »

Here is a link to a set very similar to what I have used:

http://www.garrettwade.com/diamond-tipped-rotary-bits/p/26B05.01/

Lavis500 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 16, 2011, 09:35:09 PM »

Scottly, your response comes about 3 hours after I've already filled the hole with J-B. However, what advantage would there be to adding a bolt in there if it's all plugged up with J-B anyways?

Also unfortunately there won't be any "let cure for 24 hours and ride" because my engine is still in pieces. Waiting for me to finish everything with the frame so I can roll it out, make space and finish the engine. This is SO frustrating to me because I HAVE ALL OF THE PARTS FOR ME TO DO EVERYTHING!!! I just don't have the space...

Thanks Madmtn! Definitely saved. I'll add that to the list of necessary dremel bits.

scottly · « **Reply #20 on:** April 16, 2011, 10:17:27 PM »

Quote from: Lavis500 on April 16, 2011, 09:35:09 PM

Scottly, your response comes about 3 hours after I've already filled the hole with J-B. However, what advantage would there be to adding a bolt in there if it's all plugged up with J-B anyways?

It just makes for a mechanically stronger composite repair. You'll probably be fine with J-B alone.

Grnrngr · « **Reply #21 on:** April 16, 2011, 11:12:44 PM »

I've broken so many extractors I'm paranoid of using them very much anymore. The way I was taught was to find the smallest drill bit you can, and drill spots on either side the broken extractor tip, then with a pointy punch, tap the broken tip back and forth in it's hole until you wiggle it out. Takes forever but I've done it 3 times. Sounds like JBWeld will work for now, but I think it has some application issues, the no pressure hole I patched last year in the bottom of my alt cover is dripping oil again, and I did a good prep job before JBing it

betterthanurs916 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2011, 11:46:54 PM »

You could always find someone with a drop EDM and have it zapped out of there...but you'd probably pay less for another whole front end off ebay

crazypj · « **Reply #23 on:** April 17, 2011, 12:06:13 AM »

I've used 'ordinary' tungsten carbide burrs in Dremel to remove broken of extractors. Takes a while but usually doesn't cause damage.
I positively hate 'Easyout' type left hand taper extractors, had to remove way too many of them over the years.
Before Dremel was on the market, we used masonry drills re-sharpened to cut steel (use 'green grit' wheel)
Have to use a lot of pressure and low speed or the braze melts

dave500 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 17, 2011, 12:42:00 AM »

smash/punch the extractor through then oversize the thread,unless you really want to remove a fork leg for oil changes?

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Author Topic: Broken bolt + broken extractor = broken heart. (Read 12465 times)