Author Topic: '73 carbs/airbox CB500 on a '78 CB550 engine...super rich...won't start anymore  (Read 7035 times)

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Offline King_Panther13

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 They were set by my uncle, as I was looking over his shoulder. He's the one who got me into bikes, and he's been riding UJMs since the Mach III was the fastest production bike. In fact, the ignition was set before by the mechanics who did my carbs and new points/condensers were installed, but when my uncle dug into it and adjusted it it ran a lot better, and my throttle hangup at that point (before I parked the bike for a while) was almost completely gone, though it still would show up.

 So, maybe I should readjust, it certainly can't hurt.

Offline King_Panther13

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 Still haven't had any time to do anything with it. Finals are eating up a lot of time, and now I'm having front brake troubles with my daily rider so all of my focus is going to it.

 However, I did record another video, hoping that it explains what I've been trying to say about the idle. It's always done this, even before parking it for its several month long nap. It just wasn't as consistent. Lower the idle, the less the hangup. More idle, higher/longer hangup. Of course after I stopped recording I was able to get it to hang up, and then rev up to higher speeds as well...now that is completely new and has never happened. Only seemed to happen at higher RPMs. Lowering idle screw while it's hanging up will lower the hangup and usually drop it back into idle.

 Still planning on doing the same things to the carbs that were suggested once I can find some time, but hopefully that video and my insight can make what I'm trying to describe a lot more clear.

Honda CB500/550 Horrid idle issues

 Also, I decided to do a load test on the battery. The lowest idle seems to have the battery running around 11.8 to 11.9 volts. It was sitting at 12.2 when I got to it. I was able to get it idling to have the battery around 12.1 or 12.2 without a bad hangup, so that seems to be a good sweet spot for now. I still think the battery should be charging more than that though. I'm going to remove it and hook it up to the trickle charger since I'm only starting the bike and letting it idle every few days. It isn't ready to really take on the road until I find a front end (though as stated before I'll still take it on short 2-3 mile jaunts if need be, but it isn't safe).
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 12:51:01 PM by King_Panther13 »

Offline King_Panther13

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Ok, hopefully this is still being read.

 I bid on some 1975 CB550 carbs on ebay, hoping to get something more compatible with the engine. I then looked at the compatibility chart and realized that the '78 had a very particular set and that there were several different sets. Oops.

 Should I be fine, or should I try to retract my bid? I know that with a lot of effort and hard work I can get these 627 carbs to work with my CB550 engine, but honestly I want something that's meant more for my engine and won't be as far off of being tuned in for the engine. Or are these no better than the 627's that I Have now?

 The seller is unclear as to whether they're 022A or 069A carbs.

Offline dave500

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is it too hard for him to look and read the numbers?,sure theyll be dirty but if the carbs are off the bike he has a good chance of seeing all four carbs numbers.

Offline King_Panther13

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I'm waiting for a response. The guy may not respond until after the bidding is over. Edit: Wow, speedy response. He told me that they're 022A carbs. Will these be any better for the CB550 engine, or will it be just about the same as working with these 627s?

 Here're the images.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 08:30:46 AM by King_Panther13 »

Offline TwoTired

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So, what's your plan?  Keep replacing parts 'til it runs acceptably, or tune the bike with the parts that it has?

Doesn't matter what carbs you put on, they will still need to be VACUUM BALANCED.
022a was used on Cb550's of 74 and 75 vintage.
If the carbs you are buying have not been altered internally in the 35 years since they were first built, they will be appropriate for any stock CB550 engine using the stock air induction and 4 into 4 exhaust.

A simple exhaust change (to ones that have baffles) will probably not require major carb alterations.
They will certainly need the VACUUM BALANCE checked, if not adjusted.  And possibly the pilot screws.  Of course, you will never know just what you bought until you take them apart and look at the metering devices and internal settings.  And, if you check the slide needle settings, you will have VACUUM BALANCE the carbs.

I guess I should mention that you might want to VACUUM BALANCE the carbs you have on there now, before you proceed to replace each bit of bike until you lose interest in making it run properly.  If it still has the throttle hang, look into the throttle cables adjustment and check for internal fraying.

Have Fun!

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Greggo

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I've got a good set of PD46C's I'm thinking of selling...they need a full cleaning, but they're complete.  PM me if you're interested.

Offline King_Panther13

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 You have a valid point, TwoTired. I just want to buy things that will match to the engine properly before tuning, so it'll be easier and won't be as much of a guessing game to tune. I'm in absolutely no hurry to get the bike running properly again, not until I find another front end for it anyhow. When I came across those carbs I thought that they'd make things a hell of a lot easier, then after bidding realized I should have checked the carb chart (or this forum) first. I'm only worried about them not being much better than what I have The plan would have been to make the current carbs work, though I already got sick of working on these in the past which is why the bike had sat for so long, but now my interest is renewed, and I'm no longer in a rush to make it run right since it isn't my daily rider anymore. I'm willing to slowly tinker until it becomes decent, but only if the tinkering I do is a little bit more predictable. Having carbs that don't match an engine make it even harder to do.

 Not to mention the jets in the current carbs were drilled out (have since been replaced of course), and this bike is definitely a "Frankenbike." The PO had no clue what he was doing. I'm afraid that he may have drilled or otherwise modified other things in the carbs that may not be repairable or replaceable.

 As for the throttle hang, those cables are maybe a year old. I watched the throttle lever on the carbs (don't remember the appropriate term) go down to its normal resting spot as the engine was still hanging up. It has to be internal.

 I don't mind rebuilding and vacuum balancing, I just want to have something that's meant for the engine so the changes I make make more sense, and aren't as much of a shot in the dark.  I haven't found very many threads with the 627s on the 550 engines, though I have found a handful. From what I've read, it seems like it'd take much less effort and less headache to just get carbs meant for this engine. I just was afraid that I was buying something that isn't any better for the bike than what I already have, and that's why I made my last post.

At least if I found carbs meant for the engine I could find more threads on here about tuning, and it'd be easier to match things up since all of the 550 engines are the same (I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

 Anyhow this is my big plan, loosely in order of precedence. This is actually a list I have saved on my PC, and I just added in tidbits now for anyone reading. This list isn't 100% solid. I skip steps depending on how plausible they are in terms of my current budget, time available and etc. That's why I'm thinking about carbs when I'm not even near getting another front end on it yet. Please, correct any errors in my logic. I'm only posting this here for advice and critique, so nobody will hurt my feelings. I respect everyone's opinion.


1. Get a front end that'll work with the bike. Stock front end would be ideal, with room to modify to more powerful brakes in the future, so a 550 front end is what I think my best bet would be. But any front ends that have the same rake and trail, or a rake and trail closer to stock than the nighthawk front end on it now with the least amount of work necessary to install would make me happy too. Until I finish this step I really can't ride the bike very much at all, due to it being quite unsafe so that's why it's #1. I'm still wondering how I never wrecked the thing when I was riding it daily. Also included in this step would be new steering head bearings, wheel bearings (of course) and swingarm bushings (they're horrible at the moment.)

2. Replace all of the ignition system. Points and condensers have already been replaced, and though they were adjusted last year, they'll be adjusted again after replacing. The coils still look like they're stock, as do the wires and caps so they're all being replaced. I'll most likely buy Chinese replacements for the coils and wires, and some NGK caps. Not worried about stator, alternator, or anything like that unless someone tells me that I should look into or check them.

3. Find carbs that are meant for the engine, or learn enough about carbs to make the current ones work well with the engine. Most likely going to just find another set of carbs. The ones I bid on on eBay are only like 20 bucks....I don't mind rebuilding, cleaning, vacuum balancing, etc as long as they will work well with the engine and have more predictable tuning than the current carbs. The only reason behind this step is because I always hear how the differences between the two sets of carbs are so hard to tell. There isn't very much common ground between them...though the 550 engines are all the same(correct me if I'm wrong), so carbs meant for the 550 engine no matter the year or make should be easier to tune to my engine.

4. Get a new airbox IF and only IF it'll make it easier to tune the carbs. They're cheap on eBay and won't be too hard to install in place of the '73 stock airbox. Pods were my original plan because I thought that they'd be easier....then I read a bit more and realized that they'd make things even harder. If it'd be easier to just stick with the stock airbox, then this step is to just buy a K&N or Uni filter for the box. Or if I find some magical solution to put the carbs on with pods, then hell, I'd do that. I feel better taking things apart and putting them back together than I do tuning carbs. I know that I'll have to tune, and I don't mind tuning at all....however, I want to change as many other things as I can first before tuning if it'll make it any easier or any more predictable.

5. Fix the small exhaust leak at the bottom of my 4-1 Kerker header (in the pipes before it hits the actual exhaust. Sorry if I didn't mention this earlier, I just discovered it recently), and buy a baffle (or make one) so it isn't so damned loud and to possibly help everything run better/make things easier to tune with the added back pressure. OR, alternatively, just buy another 4-1 or find a 4-2 exhaust. Or if step 6 actually happens then get a 4-4 exhaust.

6. This is an alternative, and will only be a step that I act on if I run into a perfect deal at the perfect time. It also will pretty much nullify everything above. It would be to find a parts bike that's 100% stock, or at least very close to it. This way I'd be able to go to the old 4-4 exhaust (not going to buy the 4-4 system by itself ever, unless it's either on a parts bike or super cheap) and have everything on that particular bike match up. I could rebuild the parts that I need to swap, put 'em on this bike, tune...VACUUM BALANCE :P and etc until it's great. This is mostly a pipe dream. I'm a college student, and really can't afford a third bike (technically fifth if you count my two 50cc scooters) and I know that even if I did find one in my price range it probably wouldn't be in the best of shape.

7. New chain and sprocket. This should be higher on the list as my current chain and sprockets are crap, but the other things on the list are more important. I don't think that chain/sprocket affect tuning very much.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 02:44:02 PM by King_Panther13 »