Author Topic: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression  (Read 9673 times)

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Offline steveo

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CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« on: April 20, 2011, 10:08:25 AM »
Well, cruising these forum topics, this isn't going to be new to most of you, but before I start a major overhaul just wanted to throw this out there and see if anyone has any bright ideas.

I've got a 78 CB750 F2. Last year bike started burning oil during normal operation. Blue stinky smoke out the exhaust, more prevelant in lower rpms. This is after it's warm and has been running. Also, I notice it more on longer trips rather than at startup and during shorter trips. So after about 50 or 60 miles, come to a stop sign, and when I roll on the throttle, big plumes of smoke out of the exhaust.

So late last year I did a top end freshen up (hone and re-ring). All new gaskets and seals in the top end. To my dismae, it's still burning oil in the same fashion as before. All four cylinders have good compression, 160, 155, 155, 160. So makes me think the rings, and piston-bore clearances are all good. That leads me to the valves. I didn't do anything with the valves when I took it apart last year, other than clean all the carbon from the dome and valves. I did remove all of the valves and installed new valve guide seals.

Befor I pull the engine and head again, I wanted to see if anyone with more experience than me might have some ideas of what I should be looking for.

Even if the valve guides are worn, would they leak if I had installed new valve guide seals?

Is there any other part of the oil system (pump/sump) that might be faulty that would cause symtoms that would mimic worn valve guides?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated. thanks in advance for and thoughts or ideas!

Steve


Offline strynboen

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2011, 10:16:03 AM »
are the air vent in valve top closed ,so it build persure up in engine..and press oil up in cilenders...just an idea
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Offline fletcha221

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2011, 10:48:24 AM »
Just a thought, but maybe the rings didn't seat properly?
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Offline MRieck

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2011, 11:53:11 AM »
Well, cruising these forum topics, this isn't going to be new to most of you, but before I start a major overhaul just wanted to throw this out there and see if anyone has any bright ideas.

I've got a 78 CB750 F2. Last year bike started burning oil during normal operation. Blue stinky smoke out the exhaust, more prevelant in lower rpms. This is after it's warm and has been running. Also, I notice it more on longer trips rather than at startup and during shorter trips. So after about 50 or 60 miles, come to a stop sign, and when I roll on the throttle, big plumes of smoke out of the exhaust.

So late last year I did a top end freshen up (hone and re-ring). All new gaskets and seals in the top end. To my dismae, it's still burning oil in the same fashion as before. All four cylinders have good compression, 160, 155, 155, 160. So makes me think the rings, and piston-bore clearances are all good. That leads me to the valves. I didn't do anything with the valves when I took it apart last year, other than clean all the carbon from the dome and valves. I did remove all of the valves and installed new valve guide seals.

Befor I pull the engine and head again, I wanted to see if anyone with more experience than me might have some ideas of what I should be looking for.

Even if the valve guides are worn, would they leak if I had installed new valve guide seals?

Is there any other part of the oil system (pump/sump) that might be faulty that would cause symtoms that would mimic worn valve guides?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated. thanks in advance for and thoughts or ideas!

Steve
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Offline MCRider

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2011, 11:57:43 AM »
Mike is so succinct. Allow me to elaborate. If the valve is wobbling in the guide as F2s are want to do, it is going to distort the seal between the ... seal and the valve stem. THe valve must be held straight and true in the guide for the seal to do its job.
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Offline wrenchmuch

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2011, 11:58:14 AM »
Did you check the valve guides for wear ? New guide seals won't help if the valve stem is moving side to side in the guide . F2's are known to be hard on guides .
Check this thread .
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?action=printpage;topic=8749.0

Mike and MC beat me to it .
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 12:00:06 PM by wrenchmuch »
CB750K1
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Offline steveo

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2011, 03:53:43 PM »
Nice, great info! Thanks guys.

No the valve cover vent is open.

I thought about the rings not seating correctly, but I've got about 1000 miles on it since I did the hone and re-ring, and I've got good compression in all 4 jugs. And besides the oil burning, it really runs very good. Nice and strong.

When I did the rebuild last year, I did not check the valve guides for wear.  Basically I was just inexperienced when I did it. Went through the book. Tried to move the valves around in the guides to check for any slop, was satisfied with what I saw, and threw it back together.

So, sound like I need to do the valve guides. I'll start pulling the motor tonight.

The new guides will need to be pressed in, correct?  So best I leave this to my local shop? eh?

Thanks again for all the repsonses in info.

Offline SOHC Digger

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2011, 06:18:05 PM »
You can do the valve guides yourself.  I bought a set from CycleX along with a guide hone and they were simple to change out.

I agree with the consensus that your guides are probably trashed.  I just finished my 78 750F.  My intake guides were decent but the exhaust guides were TRASHED!

Offline MCRider

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2011, 06:40:44 PM »
Nice, great info! Thanks guys.

No the valve cover vent is open.

I thought about the rings not seating correctly, but I've got about 1000 miles on it since I did the hone and re-ring, and I've got good compression in all 4 jugs. And besides the oil burning, it really runs very good. Nice and strong.

When I did the rebuild last year, I did not check the valve guides for wear.  Basically I was just inexperienced when I did it. Went through the book. Tried to move the valves around in the guides to check for any slop, was satisfied with what I saw, and threw it back together.

So, sound like I need to do the valve guides. I'll start pulling the motor tonight.

The new guides will need to be pressed in, correct?  So best I leave this to my local shop? eh?

Thanks again for all the repsonses in info.
YOu can drive the guides out and in with a guide drive and a hammer. The new guides will need to be reamed.  Very often the valve seats will need to be cut to get the valves to seat properly  All can be done by you, but I wouldn't do it myself. I'd take it to a small engine head shop.  Most MC shops can't do it and send it out.  Or ship it to APE or JMierck forum members.
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Offline MRieck

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2011, 04:40:24 AM »
You will need a valve job  with the new guides. thall the wobble has more than likely ruined the valve face as well. I have new F2 valves (and guides) in stock
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Offline bryanj

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2011, 05:24:07 AM »
Send it to MRieck and have it lightly ported You will not be dissapointed
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Offline Silverback

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2011, 07:00:25 AM »
You will need a valve job  with the new guides. thall the wobble has more than likely ruined the valve face as well. I have new F2 valves (and guides) in stock

Is a valve job always required with new guides? I have a early head that had the non-sealed exhaust valves, but was fine otherwise. I have been waiting way too long to get it back from my builder. If I don't need to re-cut the seats, I am just going to do the work myself. .....or please PM me with what you might charge to install guides and cut the seats, or just cutting seats. Thanks, and sorry for the hi-jack.
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Offline tlbranth

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2011, 09:10:18 AM »
I think it probably is the guides but another possibility is the return oil pump not keeping up with the supply so that oil is being chucked around in the crankcase more than it should.
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Offline MRieck

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2011, 10:09:56 AM »
You will need a valve job  with the new guides. thall the wobble has more than likely ruined the valve face as well. I have new F2 valves (and guides) in stock

Is a valve job always required with new guides? I have a early head that had the non-sealed exhaust valves, but was fine otherwise. I have been waiting way too long to get it back from my builder. If I don't need to re-cut the seats, I am just going to do the work myself. .....or please PM me with what you might charge to install guides and cut the seats, or just cutting seats. Thanks, and sorry for the hi-jack.
Yes as the valve center changes. If you PM me your email I will forward you a price list. Please keep in mind that the valves have to be replaced as well.
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Offline steveo

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2011, 04:57:19 PM »
You will need a valve job  with the new guides. thall the wobble has more than likely ruined the valve face as well. I have new F2 valves (and guides) in stock

Thanks MRieck. PM Sent

Offline steveo

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2011, 07:53:11 PM »
Well, I've got an update on this burning oil issue. I did the exhaust valves and guides in the motor last week. The exhaust guides were definately sloppy. The intake guides were fine.

Just got back from a 700 mile trip, and the oil burning issue is back. Same as before, maybe burning a little less oil than it was. I'm stumped! Guess I could do the intake guides also?.?.

On the trip though I noted several symptoms. So it burns oil (as evidence by a plume of white/blue smoke and missing oil in the tank) most often at low rpm's when there is a load on the motor. Say starting a climb in a taller gear. Less oil burning at higher rpm's. Also, when I use motor compression to slow down, then get on the gas, that's when the smoke is the worst.  Like coming down a steep hill in 3rd gear, using the compression to maintain my speed, then roll on throttle at the bottom of the hill (especially at low rpm's) and i get a nice big plume of smoke.

Anyone experience anything like this? Any thought's or ideas would be much appreciated!

Offline tlbranth

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2011, 08:22:37 PM »
Steve, oil is sucked in through bad intake guides, not exhaust guides. I'd still check to see if your return oil pump is working right.
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Offline ekpent

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2011, 09:15:21 PM »
I re ringed an 836 big bore kit back in the day, and not knowing then, put some of the oil scraper rings in upside down on the pistons.It smoked very bad until I quickly put them back in the correct position. You mentioned at some point you did rings.Just wondering--------

Offline steveo

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2011, 01:22:05 PM »
I re ringed an 836 big bore kit back in the day, and not knowing then, put some of the oil scraper rings in upside down on the pistons.It smoked very bad until I quickly put them back in the correct position. You mentioned at some point you did rings.Just wondering--------

Good to know. I did re-ring it, however the oil burning had started prior to the ring job.

Offline steveo

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2011, 01:26:11 PM »
Steve, oil is sucked in through bad intake guides, not exhaust guides. I'd still check to see if your return oil pump is working right.

Thanks for the info. I'll do some research and take a look at the return oil pump.

Offline EJ_ap1

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Re: CB750 Burning Oil - But has good compression
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2017, 05:30:37 AM »
Sorry to bring this thread from the dead. But did you figure out the issue?
Looks like i have exact same symptoms.