Author Topic: Teflon tensioner wheels and guides.  (Read 4674 times)

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Offline MidnightLamp

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Teflon tensioner wheels and guides.
« on: April 21, 2011, 08:48:19 PM »
So, I've been throwing around this idea for a while (coming from the excessive cost of other solutions) about running a teflon wheel tensioner (independant tensioning for both chains) for the primary drive, as well as a roller tensioner for the cam with teflon.

I know I've heard of people running metal "gear type" tensioners for roadracing honda twins (CB's...) and I know many brit bikes have aftermarket tensioners, but I've never seen this come up for SOHC4 bikes. I figured I'd ask around to see if anyone has any knowledge they'd be able to shed on this, as I definitely have the tooling (Mill + lathe) to make these, but lack the experience with them.

Before anyone asks, I see no real issue with the stock honda equipment (except for the lack of individual tensioning on the primary drive chains...), it's just that it's one more of those "well you gotta do it...." expenses to add for every SOHC 4 rebuild (seemingly), as all old guides I've seen are well past their best before date. The main turn off for me is that you have to tack on $200 to a rebuild to do all the tensioners/guides, when a seemingly better solution can be built for a lot cheaper.

Any ideas?

Cheers!
'75 CB750 - Racer
'69 CB350 - Racer
'68 Enfield 350/440(flat top) - Steet
'54 Enfield 350 - Resto
'74 Commando 850 - Restomod
'67 Enfield 750 (TT7) - Resto

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Teflon tensioner wheels and guides.
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2011, 08:55:08 PM »
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Teflon tensioner wheels and guides.
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2011, 08:58:56 PM »
So, I've been throwing around this idea for a while (coming from the excessive cost of other solutions) about running a teflon wheel tensioner (independant tensioning for both chains) for the primary drive, as well as a roller tensioner for the cam with teflon.

I know I've heard of people running metal "gear type" tensioners for roadracing honda twins (CB's...) and I know many brit bikes have aftermarket tensioners, but I've never seen this come up for SOHC4 bikes. I figured I'd ask around to see if anyone has any knowledge they'd be able to shed on this, as I definitely have the tooling (Mill + lathe) to make these, but lack the experience with them.

Before anyone asks, I see no real issue with the stock honda equipment (except for the lack of individual tensioning on the primary drive chains...), it's just that it's one more of those "well you gotta do it...." expenses to add for every SOHC 4 rebuild (seemingly), as all old guides I've seen are well past their best before date. The main turn off for me is that you have to tack on $200 to a rebuild to do all the tensioners/guides, when a seemingly better solution can be built for a lot cheaper.

Any ideas?

Cheers!
I guess you haven't seen the tensioner slide made by Mark (KOS) of M3 racing? Very heavy duty, it does away with the 2 rollers in favor of a full length slide on the back side. The slide will push forward with the stock tensioner. I think I paid less than $100 for it. You still need a new slide on the front.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 09:04:28 PM by MCRider »
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Teflon tensioner wheels and guides.
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2011, 09:32:45 PM »
There is also a member working on an adjustable primary chain tensioner as well, it still in the prototype stage and i have been asked to keep it under wraps until it is finished.....
750 K2 1000cc
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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Teflon tensioner wheels and guides.
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2011, 07:07:52 AM »
750 or "small block"? (i.e. 500/550/650)

they are quite diffferent animals regarding chains

if the later, then some memebers, me included have some tested and tried solutions

Offline kos

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Re: Teflon tensioner wheels and guides.
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2011, 07:29:08 AM »
Here is the solution for can chain tensioning in CB750 SOHC models. Time tested, never had one break, wear out or chain failure.

I have one listed on E-Bay with free chain right now. Check seller mmum

Mark @ M3 Racing
220...221, whatever it takes.

Offline MidnightLamp

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Re: Teflon tensioner wheels and guides.
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2011, 07:33:59 AM »
Big block, for sure. I like my engines to be excessively heavy, and rather wide  :o :P

As for a slipper tensioner, I've definitely seen KA's tensioner and used their tensioners on other (non CB750) builds. To be honest, I have never really like the idea of a slipper tensioner (all brit bikes run like this), and have tried many different materials but have always found the wear to be excessive. It's also $150 unless you go through cyclex  :P

TG, I've never seen a few solutions for non-750 engines, but never seen anyone try to adapt them over. A friend of mine who did a performance build on his CB did try the gear approach. He'd gone to his local gear shop, and picked up a sprocket of the same size and pitch as the CB cam chain, pressed a metal sleeve into it (phosphor bronze) and ran it instead of the tensioner wheel for the cam chain. It worked, but the wear on the cam chain was rather intense. A manual tensioner was used, and the chain was adjusted by looking at the tension under the valve cover.

I was thinking, as a first attempt, I'd just fit a  teflon wheel of the same dimensions as the same dimensions as the stock one for the primary chain (I have a spare tensioner), and see if that is workable starting solution. Then one can worry about splitting that into two tensioners!

RR, It's cool that someone else is trying this as well, thanks for informing me. I understand the need for keeping it under wraps and respect that. Since this is not a big project, it should be cool because we'll likely approach it differently and can compare the solutions later!

Cheers!
'75 CB750 - Racer
'69 CB350 - Racer
'68 Enfield 350/440(flat top) - Steet
'54 Enfield 350 - Resto
'74 Commando 850 - Restomod
'67 Enfield 750 (TT7) - Resto

Offline MidnightLamp

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Re: Teflon tensioner wheels and guides.
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2011, 07:40:03 AM »
KOS, I've seen the KA tensioner, and have no qualms with it at all, as it is a good product. I also have no experiance with it on CB750's. I'm mainly interested in engineering a solution for all three tensioners, that will hopefully be around $150 for all three.
'75 CB750 - Racer
'69 CB350 - Racer
'68 Enfield 350/440(flat top) - Steet
'54 Enfield 350 - Resto
'74 Commando 850 - Restomod
'67 Enfield 750 (TT7) - Resto

Offline simon#42

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Re: Teflon tensioner wheels and guides.
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2011, 08:30:48 AM »
not sure why you dont like slipper tensioner's . pretty much every modern bike an car use them with no problems at all . to my mind this is a much better option than having a tensioner wheel .

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Teflon tensioner wheels and guides.
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2011, 12:19:44 PM »
not sure why you dont like slipper tensioner's . pretty much every modern bike an car use them with no problems at all . to my mind this is a much better option than having a tensioner wheel .
not sure why you dont like slipper tensioner's . pretty much every modern bike an car use them with no problems at all . to my mind this is a much better option than having a tensioner wheel .

+1

I have implanted a CBR600 cam slipper in a 500 and it works real well, hardly any wear found in the teardowns between seasons.

on the 500/550 you can also adapt the primary chain tensioner that is stock on a 650 too.

the high tech plastics used nowadays in tensioners have little to do with the Bakelite or whatever was used on British bikes :)

Offline MidnightLamp

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Re: Teflon tensioner wheels and guides.
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2011, 09:48:34 PM »
Friends, I intend in no way to say that I will not look at a slipper tensioner. Clearly it's the way to go, and will be getting my hands on a CBR600f4i tensioner set (cam and primary) to take a look. I understand KOS has something available for the cam chain, but I do want to look at something for the primary chain.
'75 CB750 - Racer
'69 CB350 - Racer
'68 Enfield 350/440(flat top) - Steet
'54 Enfield 350 - Resto
'74 Commando 850 - Restomod
'67 Enfield 750 (TT7) - Resto

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Teflon tensioner wheels and guides.
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2011, 03:45:02 AM »
CBR's dont have a primary tensioner....

sohc 650's do