Author Topic: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic  (Read 9549 times)

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Markcb750

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2011, 01:53:00 PM »
Lots of interesting stories here...Lots of senseless rants too, but that's SOP on the internet.


http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=76709.0

Offline vames

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2011, 02:36:53 PM »
It's awesome that we're all riding around on 35-year old machines +/- and the big heated debates are always points vs. electronic, center stand versus a few pounds lighter, and oil versus oil. Forest for trees, folks -- each of these bikes has been treated differently for a long long time and they are still on the road!

(It's not awesome to see these debates turn into personal attacks and one-upsmanship, but whatever.)

OK enough of that. I really like the Dyna S and have always switched when I got a new (to me) sohc4. I don't begrudge anybody for using points or points/transistor setups -- they work great too.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 02:42:05 PM by vames »

Offline johnny

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2011, 02:47:46 PM »
I went with the Dyna S on my 350F rebuild. When paired with an upgraded regulator from Oregon Motorcyle Parts (http://www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/vregulators.html), I haven't noticed a considerably increased power draw.
1976 CB550K
1974 CB350F http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=81781.0
1974 CB550K
1972 CB350 Twin
1965 Lambretta
196(?) Honda S90
1975 Ford Bronco

Offline Skunk Stripe

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2011, 02:56:30 PM »
Quote
could just never trust the Pamco.  The wild, physically impossible claims the seller makes in order to prey on the naive and exploit the free advertising/sales outlet of this forum for his own profit, make it completely undesirable, unsupportable.  (Especially at cost x 11.)
So without actually ever using it or even testing it, you badmouth it? For no reason? no one here has had a failure with it and those who have it, like it. And it sure seems to work good for the yammy xs. Sounds more like prejudice than anything.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2011, 06:30:03 PM »
Quote
could just never trust the Pamco.  The wild, physically impossible claims the seller makes in order to prey on the naive and exploit the free advertising/sales outlet of this forum for his own profit, make it completely undesirable, unsupportable.  (Especially at cost x 11.)
So without actually ever using it or even testing it, you badmouth it? For no reason? no one here has had a failure with it and those who have it, like it. And it sure seems to work good for the yammy xs. Sounds more like prejudice than anything.

Yes, Eldar (or whatever name you hide behind these days), I am prejudiced.   ...With reason.  When I'm told that 55000 volts on the bench applies directly to spark gaps of .025" using a Kettering system, in order to sell coils to the naive, I smell a rat and won't trust anything else the guy says.  I don't have to pay a shyster to learn that the product won't do what the salesman says.  Many people buy from hucksters all the time.  Sales does not prove a product, any more than if 20 people who bought snake oil and got laid the same day, proves the snake oil was the cause.  But, I don't have to support the product, or condone it, if I can't trust when the seller tells me the product will do something that defies the laws of physics.  Further, more than half the people on this forum simply don't have the knowledge or inclination to test a product to its specifications.  That fact certainly includes you, I expect.

I believe he is only here to make money off this forum.  Check out his 19 posts.  (It won't take long.)  He provides nothing to this forum other than defamation of his detractors and constant push for sales of his product.  Even now he is trying to discourage a competitive product.  This forum is just a sales and advertising outlet being used for his profit.   I don't know that he has even owned an SOHC4 or has one now. 

It doesn't really surprise me that you would support a unit you clearly have no knowledge of, or capacity to understand, Eldar.  You will rally behind anyone that sides against me as you have done for years.

I am quite surprised that Glenn allows PAMCO's sales exploitation antics to continue on the forum.  But, he owns the forum and gets to make that decision.

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Skunk Stripe

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2011, 08:26:56 PM »
Well since you do NOT know how well his ignition works, what you are doing is nothing more than slander. If you did that with a large company, you could be sued for it
I do not care who or what you call me. It does not matter to me. it just shows that you know you have no leg to stand on here. Have you tested one of his ignitions? No. Have you used one? No. Have many others used it? Yes.
I do not get why you feel that it is ok for you to be so rude to anyone you want. I make a simple statement in my last post and look how you jump all over me, like I just ran over your dog or something.
Now, I don't know if his unit is any good or not. The experience with others though  has been positive, both with the unit and with his service.
I would say, until someone can prove it is junk, you only have your opinion.


Offline dave500

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2011, 08:40:14 PM »
i have two boyer bransden units on my bikes,i like them,the advance curve is in the electronics.

pamcopete

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2011, 06:44:02 AM »
1. The PAMCO ignition system is not a Kettering based system. The Kettering system uses a capacitor to form a tuned circuit with the coil to enhance the effectiveness of the collapsing magnetic field. The PAMCO electronic system does not use a capacitor so it is not a Kettering based system. If you think that the condenser is only there to protect the points, then try running your points equipped engine without a condenser.
2. The higher the voltage that a coil produces, the greater the current flow will be after the spark plug gap has been bridged. The greater the current flow across the gap, the hotter the spark. A hotter spark will in turn ignite more of the fuel air mixture to form a larger initial kernel of flame that goes on to ignite the remainder of the mixture in the cylinder.
3. In a dual output coil, wasted spark system, the spark plugs are effectively in series, so a .028 gap in each plug is really equivalent to a .056” gap. If you want to increase the gap to, say, .035” then that is equivalent to .070”. Increasing the plug gap also exposes more of the mixture to the spark to further increase the size of the initial kernel of flame. A larger gap requires a higher voltage to ensure operation under all circumstances.
4. A higher voltage from the coil also results in a longer duration spark as it takes more time for the voltage across the plug gap to diminish to the point where it can no longer bridge the gap. So, a higher voltage coil inherently produces a longer duration spark. A longer duration spark exposes more of the mixture , which also ignites more of the mixture to form an even larger kernel of flame.
5. A coil that produce a high voltage at 14.5 volts will produce a proportionately higher voltage when the battery is low than a stock coil. This results in easier starts with a cold engine and low battery.

So, constantly harping on the voltage required to jump a .028” gap is missing the real purpose in having an ignition system that produces a very high voltage. I would suggest that anyone wishing to critique the PAMCO system should first acquaint themselves with electronic ignition systems generally and wasted spark systems in particular.

As an example, a wasted spark system produces a positive voltage for one of the spark plugs and a negative for the other. The spark plug works better with a negative voltage and there is a 40% penalty in the voltage required for the spark plug with the positive voltage. That is another reason why dual output coils are always “high performance” coils. It’s not so much for an overall improvement in performance as it is to provide the 40% higher voltage for the positive sparkplug.

I think that if anyone came to this site with the intent of deceiving the membership, they would be shot down quickly, and not by people who just generally cannot accept new ideas.

The product that I am offering is a real, physical product that several members have installed in there motorcycles. So far, the feedback has been positive.

For some reason, there is one individual on this site who is so incensed with people that present new ideas for the SOHC market that he completely loses his mind and even goes so far as to suggest that I do not even own a SOHC motorcycle. That kind of behavior to me is not the workings of a healthy mind.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 07:10:49 AM by pamcopete »

Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2011, 07:08:02 AM »
I just did 800 miles in 2 weekends in both 85 deg. sunnny weather and a complete downpour ( 200 miles ) with a dodgy point plate gasket with stock points......... think I'll keep 'em  ;)
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Offline socalenduro

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2011, 08:18:58 AM »
i am NOT taking sides, and i know NOTHING about electronic ignitions...

however to be fair 28 out of 29 of pamcopete's posts are on his ignitions.
certainly doesnt make him wrong, or say anything good or bad about his product(s).... however it does kinda show intentions for board useage

and are you saying snake oil will NOT get me laid??????

Offline cookindaddy

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2011, 02:59:16 PM »
Been ignoring this thread.
Shucks. I thought I would learn something.
Tomorrow I am gonna install a BRAND NEW HONDA breaker points plate with TEC points/condensers.
I have got my regulation points file ready for the fall or next spring.
Wish me luck.
I am sure that ignition systems will all work well if installed and set up correctly.
My bike went like HE|| before that's for sure. What's past that?
George with a black 78 CB750K (in Lion's Head, Ontario, Canada)

Offline fire113

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2011, 03:22:53 PM »
...I am using an ACCENT ignition unit at the K1 and a DYNA ignition unit for my K2 and for my K0 am going to use a Fourever-Classic (<--Ralph-Peter Nagel) ignition unit.
K1 and K2 is running much better when cold, no oxidation or wet breaker points, I will see how the third one will work @ the K0.

I would not go back to breaker points and condensers!!!

Honda CB750 K0 & K0 & K1 & K1 & K2 & K2 & K6

Offline MoMo

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2011, 05:51:49 PM »
I use the stock system, which is usually points...Larry

Offline cobrajunkie

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2011, 06:48:04 PM »
You can only use points if you don't run pods and don't run them on a cafe racer or you will die.  ;D

Offline cobrajunkie

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2011, 06:49:07 PM »
and make sure you run a fork brace.

Offline cobrajunkie

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2011, 06:49:46 PM »
... and a front fender.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2011, 07:01:16 PM »
Quote
I believe he is only here to make money off this forum.  Check out his 19 posts.  (It won't take long.)  He provides nothing to this forum other than defamation of his detractors and constant push for sales of his product.  Even now he is trying to discourage a competitive product.  This forum is just a sales and advertising outlet being used for his profit.   I don't know that he has even owned an SOHC4 or has one now.

It doesn't really surprise me that you would support a unit you clearly have no knowledge of, or capacity to understand, Eldar.  You will rally behind anyone that sides against me as you have done for years.

I am quite surprised that Glenn allows PAMCO's sales exploitation antics to continue on the forum.  But, he owns the forum and gets to make that decision.

Absolute crap, and a waste of fresh air.... ::)
There are piles of guys selling their wares here and quite frankly it is none of your business.......

Skunk, save your breath mate, we are all capable of making up our own minds about whats going on here.
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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Skunk Stripe

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2011, 09:30:24 PM »
I suppose you are right ;)

pamcopete

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Re: Ignition choices- Breaker Point vs Electronic
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2011, 04:18:45 AM »
i am NOT taking sides, and i know NOTHING about electronic ignitions...

however to be fair 28 out of 29 of pamcopete's posts are on his ignitions.
certainly doesnt make him wrong, or say anything good or bad about his product(s).... however it does kinda show intentions for board useage

and are you saying snake oil will NOT get me laid??????

I certainly appreciate your interest in this. I think that if you went back and checked those posts you would find that most are in response to questions or comments from the members, including this post and the previous one.

There is now a separate section for vendors called "Site Sponsers"

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?board=134.0

and I would prefer to conduct my business there as that was the intended use of the vendor section. There is a small fee to have a permanent spot in the vendor section, so I am contributing to the upkeep of this site on a regular basis, and I'm happy to do so.

If someone posts a question or comment directed to me or my product in other sections of this site, then I will go there and answer those questions or comments.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 04:42:19 AM by pamcopete »