Topic: Simple Turn Signal wiring question.

[txbikeguy]

So this is my first post, but I'm not new to forums, I know to do multiple searches and then do more, but I've been at it for hours now, and can't seem to find a simple answer to my seemingly simple question. I know it's probably a ridiculous question to some, but I did what I assumed would work and it didn't, then I searched, now I'm posting. Anyway, here it is...

I bought a 1976 CB550 a couple weeks ago and have since been doing a little customization and maintanence work. So the bike came w/out turn signals which is fine because I would have replaced the originals with smaller ones anyway. I have taken off the stock fender and grab bar and fashioned a custom tailight/stop light/license plate bracket and it works great. Now I've got the turn signal wires hangin out sticking through the original grab bar mounting holes in the frame, great. Bought some aftermarket turn signals from DCC, to be exact, they are the K&S Technologies Part # 25-8350(wasn't allowed to post link) - They have two wires, my motorcycle has two wires. Great.

So I get the lights in the mail, and being cheap as they are, the instructions on the back are simple, though also confusing.

First of all, my motorcycle has TWO BLACK WIRES for each turn signal. They aren't color coded at all. One of them is ground, and I know which ones, and the other is live.

The turn signals have one black wire, and one black wire with white stripe.

The turn signal package instructions say that "Red wire is FLASHER (positive)" and "Black wire with stripe is GROUND (negative)"

As I've stated, there is no red wire from the signal, which is why the instructions are confusing, so I'm just assuming that the black wire is positive, and the black with stripe is negative.

My simple question is this. Do I just do as the package says, and connect the positive turn signal wire with the positive motorcycle wire, and the negative to negative, and I should be good to go? Or is the ground from the motorcycle still supposed to ground to the frame with the ground wire from the turn signal doing something else, like also grounding to the frame, or what?

The reason I ask is because I have tried both of those with no results.  I know also that the flasher relay is good and that the wires are good because when I was fashioning my custom tailight I started out thinking I would make it into a built in turn signal as well, had the wires hooked up and at one point had the two lights i used for the tailight blinking at the same time.

I hope I have been descriptive enough, and any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you.

[phil71]

i've used those lights, on an older yamaha..
they didn't work too well, because the flasher unit was looking for a bit heavier of a load, so they'd come on but not blink. Forget polarity for a minute, use a test light and make sure you get juice at one of the two wires at each location. It wont flash, but it should light. Otherwise, you gotta chase your problem downstream.
To get them to flash, you have to replace the thermal flasher with a solid state type.

[txbikeguy]

But assuming I do have juice at the wires, and assuming I upgrade my flasher, is that how the lights should be connected? Positive wire to positive wire, negative wire to negative wire?

[txbikeguy]

Update:

After upgrading to an electronic flasher, and plugging in the light wire to wire, EVEN reversing the wires, this is what I get - with the bike running, at low or medium rpm, when I hit the turn signal switch, the light flashes once, then stays dim.

So I guess the polarity of the wires doesn't matter, and I do just hook them up without grounding to the frame, but now I'm even more stumped as to why I just get a single blink and then a dim light. And just to be clear, when the switch is off, the light is off, it just goes dim after one blink, with the switch on.

[phil71]

put the old flasher back for a minute, and try again. Also, the polarity doesn't matter UNLESS the housing of these cheapos is common to the ground wire. I doubt they are.

[txbikeguy]

put in stock flasher, same result. one blink, then dim, but sometimes not even though, a couple times it just went from very dim, slowly getting less dim, but still not bright.

Also noticed something weird with the switch. The very first time I turned the signal on just now with the stock flasher, I got the turn signal buzzer for a second before the light blinked, then one blink to dim, and no buzzer. No light comes on on the idiot cluster when I do this. I turn the left turn signal(which isn't attatched, just hanging wires) and I get a turn indicator light on the idiot cluster. With the electronic flasher in I got no signal buzzer and no turn indicator light, but still the one flash to dim. All very strange.

[phil71]

actually not that strange. 
I'll try to cover a few more bases:
What bike are we talking about?
Is the battery at a good state of charge while you're testing?
If you've got all 4 hooked up, disconnect the back two, and using the solid state flasher, try again.

[txbikeguy]

As stated in the original post, it's a 1976 CB550, and the bike is running while I'm performing my tests, and has been driven at least a few miles today, and I've so far had no problems with the bike not starting or dying after starting since I've owned it, so I would assume the charging system is functioning properly and the battery is fully charged.

I don't have the front two signals connected at the moment, worrying about the back first, going to have to search for the front signal wires that I can tell the PO tucked back somewhere.

[phil71]

OH man, I wish you'd said that before. Sorry. Stop for now. Those front wires, if left rattling around the tree somewhere could short to each other, or ground, and really make some messes for you. Why not get it all where you can see it before you go too much further. Sounds like it wont be long tho till it's all okay.

[txbikeguy]

Is it reasonable to assume that since I've got nothing but black wires for the rear turn signals, that I can ignore the Clymer wiring diagram and look for nothing but black wires for the front turn signals, or do you think I should be looking for org/wht, org, and green on the front left and lt blu/wht, lt blu, and green on the front right?

Time to grab a chair and a flashlight...

[phil71]

unfortunately, seems like at this point, you've got to be a little bit of a detective. First, forget clymers.. those books are so wrong in so many places it's hard to believe. There should be some reliable diagrams on the front page of this forum.
  but if someone made their own, you're gonna have to chase them back to wherever they were grafted onto the controls.

[txbikeguy]

Well that didn't take nearly as long as I anticipated. I found 4 wires, seemingly 2 for each side, taped in pairs, and rouated them to the right and left. On each side I've got one black wire and one black wire with a blue band. This conflicts with the idea I had that there would be 3 wires due to the front lights being running lights.

I don't plan on using dual filament bulbs or running lights in the front, just turn signals, so at this point should I go ahead and wire up all 4 lights, pop in the electronic flasher unit and see what happens?

[phil71]

totally. You know, I don't know when they incorporated running lights. But, go ahead and hook 'em up!

[phil71]

oh, and when you say electronic flasher.. is it just one of those that is about a the diameter of a quarter and 3/4" deep? Electronic flasher doesn't necessarily mean solid state. If it's using bi-metal inside to 'wink', it may still not be happy with the weaker load of the aftermarket lights.

[txbikeguy]

OK....So with all four lights connected, and the bike running, and the turn signal switch off, I basically have four running lights. All four of them stay on all the time. When hit the switch to the left, the front left dims a bit and the rear left brightens a bit. Same thing happens when I flip the switch right. At least all the lights come on and I'm making progress, which is good.

The flasher I bought is a Tridon Long Life  12 volt Electronic Flasher LL552, oem replacement for 552 flasher relay. Should I take it back and get one that is actual solid state, and hope my signals will work flawlessly after it's installed...because I'm going to do that last part anyway. 

[phil71]

if you unplug the flasher, do the lights still stay on dimly?
Oh, and that model flasher is electro mechanical, but don't go buying the other one yet till we figure out what's what.
Try this for me
. ground one wire at each signal to chassis, wrap it around a bolt for now, whatever you have to do..
now, take the other lead from the light, and with the key on, but the signal switch in the neutral position, touch it to each of the two wires from the bike.
one should light, the other wont.
Hook it to the one that wont.
Try the signal. Should come on, but not blink.
Repeat for each corner.

[txbikeguy]

Ok...if i take the flasher out comepletely, yes the lights stay dimly lit.

I did the grounding trick in all four corners, but not sure if I interpretted your instructions correctly. I grounded one wire from the signal, then found the wire from the bike that made the light NOT come on when applied to the non grounded signal wire, and attached the two, then I attached the grounded signal wire with the unused bike wire. Did that on all four corners. Replaced flasher, turn key and all four lights are still on.

Should I have not reconnected the wire I manually grounded and the unused bike wire? That was the part of the instructions I was unclear on.

[phil71]

yeah, ONLY use the one that makes the lamp NOT be on. Tape off the extra one for now. Your bike had marker lamps, so for now, one wire is just not going to be used

[txbikeguy]

even on the back two, where no running lights were present before? or just for the front? and do i leave the wire from the signal grounded or unground and just not use it?

[phil71]

For the purposes of troubleshooting, ground ALL the new lamps at the mount point or chassis.
Since you don't know what wire is what, you have to work via process of elimination.
start on one side in the front.
With the key on, but signal NOT engaged, touch the remaining wire from the new signal to each wire. One will light, one will not. Hook it to the one that does NOT light.
Repeat that for the other front light.
Now, you SHOULD have front turn signals that light when you push the switch, but probably not be blinking. This is okay.
Next, go to the back.
again, make sure you grounded one of the wires from the new signal to chassis.
Now, put that side's signal ON (the front one should be lit now). touch the remaining wire from the new lamp to one of the leads from the bike, then the other. Only one will make that light, and if you're lucky, flash too.
Now do the other side.
In the worst case, the signals will light when you move the switch, but not blink. If  this happens, you just need one of those solid state flashers. But I have a pretty good feeling that it'll be okay.

[txbikeguy]

So I went back out, did the grounding trick on the front signals, AND left the wires I had grounded grounded, and left the rear signals alone, and when I hit the switch with the unused signal light grounded, everything works!!!! So tomorrow when stores open I'll go get some connectors I can use to ground the wire to the post and tuck all my wires away and have working turn signals. I'm so stoked right now. Thank you so much for all of your helpful info. This was the first issue so far I haven't been able to resolve through searching or trial and error on my own.

I'm really enjoying this motorcycle as my first. I knew I wanted something I could ride away but that I'd also be able to do work on to get more familiar with it. So far I've converted to blade type fuses, cut and reconnected a jumble of some PO's hack wiring job that got fried when I tried to jump the battery, and fabbed that custom tailight/stop light/license plate bracket and made it work.

I've worked on my car for years but for some reason the little things I've done to this motorcycle in the short time I've had it just seem so much more rewarding.

Other projects in the works right now are changing the plugs and wires. Got some ngk wire splicers coming in the mail, new wires and plugs are already here. Once I've got the tank off for that I plan to ATTEMPT to set the valve adjustment, and hopefully not royally screw anything up. After that I'll set my sights on setting the points gap and timing and at some point down the line cleaning and synching the carbs. Pretty sure after changing plugs and wires and setting gap and timing it should run like a champ. I also pulled off the front brake to find the piston frozen so I'm in the midst of getting that up and running and after that should be able to pass inspection. Maybe some pics and a real project thread to come in the future. Super happy to have these signals working though, thank you again.

[phil71]

Awesome! Don't be spooked about valve adjustments.. It's not very tricky. Measure twice , cut once . Familiarize yourself with the part of the engine's rotation where the valve is slack. Spin a few times with the caps off so you get the idea of what goes on in there. Having the right tool for it will speed up your learning curve .
Good luck, and you can find a lot of your answers here. People are awesome, and generous. Wish real life worked like this.

[Nortstudio]

Wish I had seen this earlier.  Just installed these exact same flashers from DCC.  It definitley is all about the ground.  I had a little problem, and then realized that the ground was not solid (I was using the ground wires that were on there from the stock setup).

Great to hear you got it sorted.  Man, what a vast difference in the look of the bike after you replace those large stock flashers/tail light.