Topic: Calrification: The Works for Tank Cleaning

[Nortstudio]

OK, well I finally heard back from the manufacturer of The Works, only for them to tell me that they can not tell me which of the stores the nationally sell to has their product in stock in my area.  UGH!

So it looks like I will make a couple more trip around seeing if anyone has it, or order online.

My question is: How much of this stuff are you all using?  The bottle they show on their site (with the bent nozzle for getting under the bowl rim) looks to be 32 oz.  Are you using just one of these?  Or do I need multiple bottles?

Thanks,

Scott

[vames]

There's nothing magic about The Works versus similar acid-based toilet products. In fact, you might have less problem with flash rusting if you go to Ace or Home Depot and get some phosphoric acid.

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/miracle-sealants/1-quart-fast-acting-phosphoric-acid-cleaner-14470.html

[Nortstudio]

After reading a bunch of posts, I thought the product you posted here was for a wash to eliminate the flash rust only, AFTER using the works???

I did find this stuff locally.  can I use this instead of the Works?  Also, how much is needed?

Thanks for the reply.

[flopshot]

doing one right now with Krud Kutter concrete etcher.   works pretty good.

[Silverback]

I buy the stuff from Dollar General for $1.50. I have seen it at Krogers and other supermarkets for $3+.

The amount you use depends on the condition of your tank. I generally put a gallon of water in the tank and add the whole bottle of works. I then replace the filler cap and slosh it around really good. I let it sit for a minute, then turn the tank upside down and let it sit again for a minute. It's a pretty strong concentration at this point. Try not to inhale the gas emitted by the HCl in the cleaner.  After the initial sloshing I add another couple of gallons of water and let it sit for a while. I am consistently looking in the tank during this time. At the point all of the rust has been removed, I empty the tank and add a mixture of baking soda and water (lot's of baking soda; an entire small box in about 1-2 gallons of water). Again I slosh and let it sit right side up and upside down for a while. This neutralizes the acid. Empty the tank and rinse with water. After draining as best as I can, I add methyl alcohol. This combines with the water and allows it to evaporate much faster. Some use acetone. Again, I slosh it around really good to mix with all of the left over water that I was not able to drain. I remove as much alcohol/water mixture as I can from the tank and use an air nozzle to dry out the inside of the tank. Next, I mix a small amount of gasoline with Marvel Mystery oil and completely coat the inside of the tank. This mixture stays in the tank until I fill it with gasoline.

There you go! That's my procedure and it works great for me!

Less flash rusting occurs with the phosphoric acid, but I find it easy to control with the right procedures.

[Nortstudio]

Does this Krud Kutter (how tricky with all the K's!) work the same as Works and possibly Miracle Sealants?

Thanks for the procedure breakdown Silverback.  If I can find it, I'm anxious to give it a shot.

[Silverback]

That concrete cleaner has Hydrochloric acid in it also, just like the Works cleaner. Muriatic acid, which can also be found at the hardware store has hydrochloric acid in it. Any of these will work.

[Nortstudio]

Great.  Thanks.  So I really only need one.

Can anyone tell me if 32oz is enough to handle a tank that only show signs of slight rust (as far as I can see in there).

Thanks for all the help.

[Silverback]

One bottle should be plenty for just a little bit of rust.

[Nortstudio]

And off I go.

Thanks everyone...

[Silverback]

Just to clarify, I looked up the contents of the Krud Kutter.
It does not list HCl, but instead contains sodium metasilicate pentahydrate and alcohol ethoxylate.

Actually, there are a couple of Krud Kutters. Some with different concentrations of whats listed above and others with different stuff, but no HCl.

[Nortstudio]

That's all Greek to me.

I'll stick with the other two. Are we saying that I only need one, not both Works AND Miracle???

[ev0lve]

That's all Greek to me.

I'll stick with the other two. Are we saying that I only need one, not both Works AND Miracle???

You're overthinking this. Just do it. You'll be fine.

[Silverback]

Not too familiar with the Miracle stuff. You would only need one of the two, HCl or Phosphoric acid. As stated the phosphoric acid is supposed to reduce/prevent the flash rusting while it removes rust. I might try that next time. I'm always up for a good experiment!

[vames]

You might just want to take it to a radiator shop instead of dealing with acid. I went to Big Man Radiator in Williamsburg -- for $125 he'll dip the tank to remove all rust, then red-kote the inside. I expected it to remove the old faded (yet original) paint on the outside of the tank but it had virtually no effect on the paint. The coating seems very strong and solid. Something to consider.

[Silverback]

Virtually? If done carefully, the method outlined will do "no harm" to your paint. That's one of the reasons I use alcohol instead of acetone. No strong solvents= no paint damage.

Remember though, the HCL in Works or muriatic acid WILL attack chrome. Keep a water hose handy to spray off anything that might go where you don't want it to.

[72 yellow]

Virtually? If done carefully, the method outlined will do "no harm" to your paint. That's one of the reasons I use alcohol instead of acetone. No strong solvents= no paint damage.

Remember though, the HCL in Works or muriatic acid WILL attack chrome. Keep a water hose handy to spray off anything that might go where you don't want it to.

+1
A 10% mix of muratic acid is strong enough to etch concrete and turn it a different color in a big hurry so be careful where you work.  Don't inhale the fumes either.  I did new construction brick cleaning for 15 years and saw how misuse can cause permanent problems.

[Chicago550]

Like Silverback said, it will eat at your chrome and damage your paint (I found this out the hard way).

[Nortstudio]

Thanks for the heads up folks. I'm stripping the tank anyhow, so as long as I keep away from the fumes, and keep a hose handy, I should be good.

[Tree]

Nortstudio, Phosphoric Acid is an alternative to the Works, not used after the works.  Phosphoric Acid is said to leave a "coating" on the tank metal which is rust resistant and minimizes any flash rust.  I would follow either the Phosphoric Acid or the Works with a baking soda / water solution rinse to neutralize them. 

[Nortstudio]

Thanks for the clarification. I was basing that off a post that I now realize was using Phos acid after because he got flash rust after the works.

I'm in search for the miracle solvent. I read another post that stated baking soda could offset the "coating" that Phos acid leaves.

I'll do some more research on that.

Appreciate all the hep folks.

[Bob Wessner]

+1 on the phosphoric acid. No rust and didn't bother with any coating, going on six years now.

[Scott S]

 - One bottle (or less) of the Works, full strength and a length of heavy chain
 - Shake, slosh, jiggle, rock, agitate
 - Dump it out
 - Rinse with water
 - Add about 1/2 a box of baking soda and ~1/3 tank of water. Agitate again
 - Drain and rinse with alcohol (I use denatured)
 - Air dry or use your air compressor, hair dryer, etc.
 - Slosh around a few ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil if you don't plan on adding gas anytime soon.
 
 This method has worked great for me on several occasions.
 One note: Remove your petcock and make a rubber plug for the petcock hole. Don't get The Works on your good paint if you can help it. I was repainting all of my tanks anyway and didn't worry about it.