Author Topic: Putting the bottom end back together today, advice? (Read 5172 times)

q2418130103p · « **on:** April 30, 2011, 04:24:21 AM »

Hello,

I am putting the bottom end of the engine (550) back together today and I was hoping to get some advice, or general cautions. I have never put a bottom end together before.

I am replacing the:
cam chain
primary chain
1 of the primary shaft bearings (the one i nicked on removal)
all main bearings (all green)
all rod bearings (all green)

For supplies I have:
assembly lube (redline)
plastigauge
full gasket kit
every oring available in the parts list
those little rubber dampers
brake cleaner (just to make sure there is no dust or junk on anything before installing)
yamabond

Some general questions:
how much assembly lube do I use, and on which components?
I had read somewhere that I should dunk the transmission parts in oil before installing, is this necessary?
After the main bolts are in, is there an order to the rest of the case bolts? I didnt see that mentioned in the shop manual.
How big of a deal is the 'axial clearance'?
Yamabond, apply with an acid brush?

I will follow the manual. But if there is anything that you think may be unclear, or ill-defined in the manual, could you let me know?

Thanks
-Jay

dave500 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 30, 2011, 05:24:36 AM »

i just use oil on assembly,use it on any bearings etc/moving pieces,with the outer case bolts just do them squarely sharing tension evenly as you can,axial (crank sideways slop)these have a bit,dont worry about it,with sealant i use my finger to smear it evenly and remove excess,take your time,once its together with out the clutch try and select all gears up and down as you spin the shafts back and forth,it might feel a little like you get neutrals but as long as they all select itll be ok,most constant mesh transmissions work better and in fact need a load on them to operate correctly.

q2418130103p · « **Reply #2 on:** April 30, 2011, 11:45:33 AM »

Thanks Dave.

So I noticed a series of gouges/scratches on one of my new rod bearing shells. I cant tell if they have raised edges or not. Is there a good method to test this?

dave500 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 30, 2011, 03:05:29 PM »

if you cant feel them itll be ok,pictures?

q2418130103p · « **Reply #4 on:** April 30, 2011, 03:43:09 PM »

I dont think I can feel them with my finger, but I get feel them with my finger nail. If I can feel them with my finger then what action can I take?

I will take a picture of the bearing when I am back at the garage in the morning. (~14 hours from now).

q2418130103p · « **Reply #5 on:** May 01, 2011, 05:09:33 AM »

From an earlier thread I had about a scratch on my crank shaft, HondaMan stated that a crocus cloth or fine emery cloth could be used. Is this the case of bearing shells as well?

Bodi · « **Reply #6 on:** May 01, 2011, 06:31:22 AM »

use crocus cloth or India stone on steel like the crank or cam journal, don't touch the soft bearing metal.
slight scratching on the shell is not serious, the high spots will wear down quickly. The journals should be smooth since the hard steel will grind away the soft shell metal. using an extra fine India stone well oiled to polish the journals slightly is my usual approach. Crocus cloth is similar but not quite as gentle as a good quality extra fine stone.
Put a thin coating of Redline on each journal and bearing before assembly.
Oil the transmission before installation so the roller bearings and plain bearings are not dry.
I just put the sealer on with my finger. You want a thin relatively smooth coating on one side of the sealing surfaces. Overdoing it will make a mess when you tighten down the cases and the inside (where you can't clean it off) will be as bad as the outside... although Yamabond shouldn't cause trouble like silicon does I would not want blobs of it floating in the engine oil... so if you see blobs squeezed out of the joint on the outside from putting it on too thick, then the same blobs are on the inside.
Use anti-seize on all fasteners.
Only the main (crank journal) bolts are sequenced. Tighten, in sequence, to "just tight" then go to spec torque, in sequence, in at least two steps ie just tight then 10ft-lb under spec then full tight.
Be careful with torque on the others, the spec is in the "common service manual" but approach it with care: it is very close to the stripping torque. If you get the bolts mixed up some will be engaging just a few threads and will strip super easy: test fit every bolt before tightening... with them just sitting in their holes all the heads should stand proud roughly the same distance. If some are close to the case and some are standing really tall then you need to swap around till they are all right. Check for stripped threads before assembly.

q2418130103p · « **Reply #7 on:** May 01, 2011, 07:09:21 AM »

Hey thanks, great stuff.

Can you take a guess at where I can get stuff like crocus cloth, or india stone locally? I went to the local NAPA and they looked at me like I had two heads.

camelman · « **Reply #8 on:** May 01, 2011, 09:26:36 AM »

Make sure you have all the necessary pieces in your starter clutch before you assemble, and check to make sure none have fallen out as you assemble. Other than that, make sure you have all of your seals and shaft ends aligned so the nubs fit into the retention holes. You can check with a feeler gauge around the split line after everything is bolted up to make sure.

Camelman

q2418130103p · « **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2011, 05:39:41 PM »

FYI, I brought the cases and crank to a machine shop for inspection / micro polish, so that may be a small delay. They said the nicked bearings were nothing to worry about. Before I was told that the bearing shells were so soft I had tried to rub the high spots off with a cloth and a bit of emery compound... oops. I doubt it did anything at all, but I am sure the machine shop will measure the bearing in a few spots to check for roundness.

In regards to the starter clutch. I removed it from the bike, placed it on a clean paper towel, and taped it up tight. So hopefully nothing was disturbed. I would have taken it apart for inspection, but I didnt feel file getting those screws off. Should I? Because I will.

q2418130103p · « **Reply #10 on:** May 04, 2011, 07:27:41 PM »

I was just thinking about the last post. What do you mean by checking with a feeler gauge?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk

q2418130103p · « **Reply #11 on:** May 05, 2011, 04:14:27 PM »

So I got everything back from the machine shop, and the rod with the most clearance was the one that I rubbed with the emery compound and a towel. Is there a chance that I actually took off any material, or is it coincidence?

camelman · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2011, 05:58:35 PM »

Without knowing what you did to the bearing, it is hard to tell. My feeler gauge comment is to use a ten mil gauge (anything under 15 is fine) to try to slip between the cases. It is very evident if there is a gap, and you don't need to force it. I'm not sure how the 550 starter clutch goes together, but if it has springloaded barrels then I recommend not bumping it hard while assembling since they can fall out.

q2418130103p · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2011, 06:12:54 PM »

I just rubbed the bearing with a towel that a had put a streak of emery polishing compound on, you know the kind meant for taking scratches out of aluminum. I'd find it hard to believe that I could have removed much material like that. I did it for a couple minutes. The machine shop measured the clearance of the rods at 0.014-0.019", where the largest gap was on the bearing I messed with.

In regards to the feeler gauge, I take it that there should not be a gap if I properly install the nubs in the retention holes?

q2418130103p · « **Reply #14 on:** May 20, 2011, 06:31:56 PM »

So I have a couple questions:

1) The manual says to assemble the transmission in the upper half, but the crank gets assembled in the lower half. How do you put the halfs together without stuff falling out? I feel like the easiest thing is to hold the crank in place and set the lower half onto teh upper half.

2) When applying a sealer to the edge of the cases, do you apply sealer to any of the oil seals (i.e. the output shaft seal, the blank plug, and the two crank seals)?

3) Is there a point to applying sealer to the edge that is inside the clutch cover? This area is exposed to oil anyway, it seems funny to try and seal it.

Thanks,
jay

dave500 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 20, 2011, 07:28:11 PM »

1)hold the shafts in place as you turn it over

2)i fit the crankseals dry,the other seals i fit after the cases are together with a little loctite #4hardening goo

3)you dont need to apply sealer to any area which is inside like you described.

some people may do all this differently.

q2418130103p · « **Reply #16 on:** May 20, 2011, 07:40:54 PM »

What is loctite #4?

dave500 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 20, 2011, 07:43:02 PM »

you might not get it over there,permatex?

q2418130103p · « **Reply #18 on:** May 20, 2011, 07:45:58 PM »

So, like a regular silicone gasket? Like permatex RTV black?

dave500 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 21, 2011, 12:14:36 AM »

not a silicon,hylomar is another brand/type,you put it on automotive head bolts that go into water in the block say.

q2418130103p · « **Reply #20 on:** May 21, 2011, 06:14:18 AM »

Permantex lists numbers 1 to 3. The number 1 is hardening type. So maybe that is it.

So why is it that you put these seals in later, and why use this hardening goo as opposed to the stuff used to seal the cases?

dave500 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 21, 2011, 07:06:55 PM »

the seals are easily tapped into place after,,youll be concentrating on not dropping the gear clusters and feeding the conrods into place let alone trying to square up seals as you drop the two halfs together,the seals could also be fitted dry,plenty do that and its fine,i like to use a sealant on them though.

q2418130103p · « **Reply #22 on:** May 21, 2011, 07:11:19 PM »

Gothca, thanks.

Flying J · « **Reply #23 on:** May 21, 2011, 09:24:04 PM »

Just watching for pointer as i hope to be doing this soon.

q2418130103p · « **Reply #24 on:** May 22, 2011, 07:43:36 AM »

Well, I can say this now:
1) When you assemble the primary shaft, put the heedle bearing inside the starter gear first, as opposed to trying to slide the primary shaft with the needle bearing on it into the starter gear

2) Put the crank seals on before you drive the rpimary shaft in.

So #2 leads me to my current problem. When I poped the crank shaft back up to get teh seals on, the stickness of the assembly lube picked one of the bearing shells up, and I didnt notice. The bearing shell got rotated around 1/8 of the way around the crank shaft. I then tried to assemble the case halfs and messed up the opposite bearing shell in the process. I put a series of horizontal gouges in the shell.

I assume I now have to replace this shell, but I have been told that the bearing shells are made of such soft material that deformations in teh shell are not really a big deal. Any advice?

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Author Topic: Putting the bottom end back together today, advice? (Read 5172 times)