Topic: FBI got there most wanted

[BobbyR]

I was watching Al Jazerra with an Egyptian I work with. He translated and a lot of the commentary was that Bin Laden was becoming less relevant to the youth considering the "Arab Spring" fueled by the young throughout the region. His brand of radicalism is not their agenda.

This smacks of an updated version of "The Producers"

Springtime for Hitler - The Producers(1968)

And to your comment about the files and computer records found, we've only just begun. Hopefully this will get the proper cooperation from the countries that have cells with planned activity.

To your first point the Arab World has a long tradition of exacting revenge, they understand it. A lot of the people interviewed were hoping that the US would now turn there attention to working with them, or at least leaving them alone. The new wave wants some freedom and probably to be left alone.
There will be some hard liners, but there are hard liners in all countries, including this one.

[Really?]

They found Bin Ladens last FB post.






Brb, someone's at the door.

[Markcb750]

All of the middle eastern mythologies have revenge as a fundamental part of their world view, it is taught to them from their very first exposure to adults around them.  " You'll go to hell if (insert your favorite here)". 

The followers or Islam have just decided that the success of the Christian inquisition is something they would like also, so they are adopting its revenge right now attitude.


They will be extracting revenge from each other till religion disappears into histories dustbin alongside the flat earth theory.

[BeSeeingYou]

I'm still waiting for the real story about this. From a military perspective, the operation was a cock-up. One Blackhawk crashed during the insertion, Osama (shot twice, even though unarmed) was apparently using a woman (also unarmed) as a human shield (she was shot too) and now the government don't have any tangible evidence that he's actually dead, except for a vague promise that they "might" release a pic of his body. (which could easily be photo-shopped)

If I was the president of the US, I'd want him captured so I could parade him in front of the camera's and try him in a US court, and execute him. All the American people have at the moment is a story with nothing to back it up. Sorry for my cynicism, but it doesn't add up. Cheers, Terry.

    You don't understand the American legal system.  The last thing we need is a trial to drag on and on like the O.J. trial.  You would have lawyers flocking to defend him just for the notoriety and it would be a ridiculous spectacle.  It would elevate his importance and give him a platform.  I thought this was the smartest way to handle it.  Short and sweet, consign him to the dustbin of history and move on to the next guy on the list.  "Taking care of business" to quote a phrase.  Let all people with their conspiracy theories make a bunch of wild eyed claims or whining about this or that and show the contrast between someone getting the job done and the detractors on other side.  Just as he made total fools of the birthers in the space of a few hours.
    I think so much of the complaining is just sour grapes.  The talkers/ politcians/leaders on one side of the political spectrum are just beside themselves with indignity that the Obama team is the one to get it done.  It is their worst nightmare so much that many can't even mention his name when talking about it. 

[Duke McDukiedook]

Sounds like they sent a bunch of NYC cops instead of Seals to do the dirty deed there, trial by bullets.

Yeah, we wouldn't want pesky laws or legalities or other governments to get in the way of how we conduct our business now would we?

[Markcb750]

In all seriousness, this troops did a spectacular job, I am sure they asked in Arabic for OBL to surrender, and when he did not immediately they put an end to the threat he represented to them, like one of OBL's butt boys attempting to save him by shooting at the Team. 


He was a coward right to the end, telling young men their reward was on the other side, while he hid like the criminal he was in a safe house. 

The only thing cocked up is a bunch of bloggers second guessing like old men on a porch. 

[Gordon]

Isn't the timing just perfect for the election coming up next year?  Anyone have doubts we'll hear a lot more about it (except for the details) on the campaign trail?

The timing would have been "just perfect" had it happened shortly before the election when short-lived emotional reactions could have made a difference, not a year and a half before it, when there's more than enough time for the GOP and Fox "news" to pull or fabricate every possible negative thing they can from the story.

You're kidding, right?     
Didn't Obama announce his intent to run in 2012 just last month?  Time to gather momentum.  He was out in CA just last month fundraising.  Do you seriously believe he won't be capitalizing on Bin Laden events in his speeches from now to election time?  (repetitively)  How long will it take for the sheeple to accept as fact?

"A lie told often enough becomes truth" Vladimir Lenin.

William James (1842-1910) The father of modern Psychology "There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it."

Cheers, 

Of course he's going to capitalize on it.  What politician wouldn't?  All I'm saying is the timing of it does not really lend itself well to conspiracy theories saying that this could have been carried out at any time over the course of the past few years, but instead was done at this exact time for the purpose of assuring a second term for the president.  There is far too much time between now and the next election for the initial, emotional reaction to hold up, and more than enough time for the competition to put a negative spin from multiple angles on it, and do their best to drain any sense of accomplishment from it. 

I would be much more skeptical of the timing had this happened just a few months or weeks before the actual election. 

I'm not saying the president won't get a political boost from this, and I don't see why he shouldn't, but that's beside the point.  I would have the same opinion on the nature of the timing of this event regardless of who was in the white house.   

[Grnrngr]

Islamists aren't the only ones steeped in the tradition of revenge, it's a "universal" concept. Can't think of a war or conflict anywhere ever that didn't have at least an element of revenge involved.. look at N. Ireland..or S. Africa...or the hills of Kentucky
And while I definitely feel some admiration for the guys who took him out, I certainly nope none of y'all actually think we're any "safer", he was just a name, and like they used to say about drug dealers, kill one and two more jump up to take his place.

[Grnrngr]

Oh yeah...And Obama didn't have anymore to do with it than GWB did, it was the spy guys that found him and all Obama did was give permission to complete the operation, he just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Coulda been Hillary Clinton. or Sarah Palin.

[BeSeeingYou]

I am enjoying the spectacle of Fox News complaining about how it was illegal and unconstitutional.  I suppose next they will want us to return all the computer hard drives and other information Team 6 retrieved as they did not have a search warrant.  

[Skunk Stripe]

Yeah, we wouldn't want pesky laws or legalities or other governments to get in the way of how we conduct our business now would we?

Did the pilots of those airplanes hold a trial before ramming the towers?
Why bother being so hung up on this? I guess we could have kept him alive, maybe but at what cost, and tried him. It would be a sham trial though, just like saddam. not only that, but IF he is that important, what would terrorist do to get him back? Would you like to be position to have to ransom osama for a bus load of nuns or something? Talk about a damned if you do or don't situation.

In this particular case, they axed the fool so as to avoid all these complications while still doing just enough apparently, to avoid pissing off whatever part of the muslim world. Given the situation, thats a win-win.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Because we are supposedly a society built upon a constitution and laws, when our leaders decide they are above the law or do not have abide by those laws where does that leave us? Should I have to abide by our laws when our leaders do not?

It diminishes our ability to shine as a beacon of democracy and law that other peoples should aspire to.
We stoop to the level of tyrants and law breakers that we publicly criticise, become complete hypocrites.

[Radam]

So does this mean that everyone is done saying that 9/11 was an inside job? 

[Skunk Stripe]

Dukie, do you really think or govt always follows the laws? Besides, sometimes, there is just no reason for a trial. You think hitler would have had a trial? How about Judas? What point is there in a sham trial anyways? It would be a waste of resources and just an insult to people anyways. I don't see the people held in gitmo getting real trials either. So the shining beacon thing was put out almost 10 years ago.
At this time, I am not sure if I would call many govts shining beacons of anything but corruption.

[BeSeeingYou]

Because we are supposedly a society built upon a constitution and laws, when our leaders decide they are above the law or do not have abide by those laws where does that leave us? Should I have to abide by our laws when our leaders do not?

It diminishes our ability to shine as a beacon of democracy and law that other peoples should aspire to.
We stoop to the level of tyrants and law breakers that we publicly criticise, become complete hypocrites.

Not sure how many of our rights and laws would apply to a foreign national and enemy combatant in another country.  The main reason they killed him, once he comes here for trail he gains legal rights and the spectacle begins.  Historically our leaders and military have been given a bit of latitude in times like this.  Every war or conflict leads to a suppression of rights and breaking of laws.  Maybe it's not right but it is what it is.

[Operator]

Refused to surrender but was unarmed = double tap

You call it justice, I call it a political assassination carried out by the US govt....

It doesn't matter what country/society you live in, taking lives is taking lives. Using the loss of your own countrymen to justify and celebrate violence being brought upon another will only push the human race to a lower level of existence.

[Skunk Stripe]

A lower level of existence? Well not sure about that, we seem to have surpassed the romans and nazis in level. A star trek society we are not.

[Grnrngr]

Should I have to abide by our laws when our leaders do not?

The number 1 reason I own firearms.

[Spikeybike]

So does this mean that everyone is done saying that 9/11 was an inside job? 

no   

[BlindJoe]

Good luck finding an impartial jury.

[Blueridgerunner]

 "It's a Sicilian message. It means Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes."
or, in this case, Bin Laden!

[Terry in Australia]

Refused to surrender but was unarmed = double tap

You call it justice, I call it a political assassination carried out by the US govt....

It doesn't matter what country/society you live in, taking lives is taking lives. Using the loss of your own countrymen to justify and celebrate violence being brought upon another will only push the human race to a lower level of existence.

Actually, a "double tap" is two shots fired quickly at the same point of aim, so if Osama was double tapped (assuming of course that the story is true) he would have had either two in the chest or two in the head, although two in the chest would be more feasible, head shots are for sniping, not CQB.

I'm interested in how he "refused to surrender" when he was unarmed, and apparently, bed-ridden. It seems that due to his illness, he wasn't able to walk unassisted for the last few years, so I don't know why it was necessary to shoot him, (twice) when he was incapable of any resistance. It would explain the pictures of blood stains on his bed though.

I heard on the radio today that Obama has decided not to show the pics of the dead Osama, so I guess we'll just have to believe the word of a US President, and hope he's a bit more honest than the last one, who justified invading Iraq based on reports from America's various intelligence agencies (the same one's who apparently located Osama) that Saddam had "Weapons of Mass Destruction".

So I guess the bottom line is that, depending on your particular political persuasion, you'll either believe that the "Kill or Capture" op was a complete success, but unfortunately Osama resisted too much so the Seal guys had to shoot him, and the government had to give him a burial at sea in accordance with Islamic tradition, (even if like me, you've never actually heard of an Arab buried at sea) or you're a nut case who dares question the rather dubious story that the government is trying to sell you. "Sheeple" or "Conspiracy Theorist". Which is it? Cheers, Terry.      

[Duke McDukiedook]

OK, so I am not the only one here that thinks this story reeks of bad military-op fiction. 

So how many other changes will be made to the initial story before all is said and done?

[Radam]

I bet the seal guys had those nifty little cameras on, but I bet we (the people) won't ever see any of that footage.

[Operator]

Refused to surrender but was unarmed = double tap

You call it justice, I call it a political assassination carried out by the US govt....

It doesn't matter what country/society you live in, taking lives is taking lives. Using the loss of your own countrymen to justify and celebrate violence being brought upon another will only push the human race to a lower level of existence.

Actually, a "double tap" is two shots fired quickly at the same point of aim, so if Osama was double tapped (assuming of course that the story is true) he would have had either two in the chest or two in the head, although two in the chest would be more feasible, head shots are for sniping, not CQB. 

My comment about it being a "double tap" was slightly tongue in cheek. A head shot (if indeed it was, no pics to date) is either one of two things, intentional or lucky, sorry I forgot to mention poor weapon control, but I doubt that would be the case based on the type of operators that carried out this mission.