Topic: Plumbing Gurus? 5" closet flange?

[faux fiddy]

We had a bit of a problem a few months back with our sewer line, sh8 backed up and bathroom carpets needed to be removed. I've been abating the problem with sewer snaking, and new tile, which is looking good if I say so myself.

My problem is that the pipe out of the ground is five inch where it meets the surface,  down to a depth of about 5."  From there down the pipe is four inch. The old closet flange is rotted out, I assume the other two bathroom will be also, and I will likely find the same situation with oversized (5") pipe.

I spent half the day looking for a 5" flange. Nobody ever heard of 5," only 4" or 3" flange.

Any experiences or suggestions or source for a 5"  compression flange?

[BeSeeingYou]

   What you may be seeing is actually the remains of the toilet flange.  It fits around the outside of the 4 inch pipe like a collar and extends down a few inches and would have been sealed with lead and oakum.  The top portion of the flange that sits flush on the floor and the top of the 4 inch pipe have rotted away IMO.  The photos are not very clear.  I take it that this is in a basement or first floor on a slab?  You may have to open up the floor around the pipe so you can get a grinder/rotozip with a metal cutting wheel down there to cut off the pipe and use a rubber coupling and short piece of PVC to build it back up. 
   Or as is likely the pipe takes a 90 degree bend and runs horizontal below the slab.  It may be the hub portion of the bend that you are thinking is the 5 inch pipe.  Then you can just cut a slot in the slab to get at the pipe.  You could also rent a pipe snapper and cut the pipe that way and it would require less clearance around the pipe than a grinder.  About $35 around here from a decent hardware store or equipment rental place..
   Or.........that's all I got.

[Don R]

I agree, the iron flange fitting is made to fit over the pipe and is/was available in different lengths. The lead and oakum joint is on the inside of the closet flange fitting. There are new plastic twist in flanges that have a rubber expanding seal that seals on the inside. The problem may be they might not fit tightly on the inside of the flange due to the larger diamater. Worth a try though. The other issue is sometimes the diameter of a flange to go over 4" pipe is  large so there is little floor material remaining to attach the new flange to.
 It was a tough repair when I was a service plumber but there may be new fittings to help. try an internet search of repair closet flanges.

[faux fiddy]

  The photos are not very clear.  I take it that this is in a basement or first floor on a slab? 

Yes, first floor slab.

There are new plastic twist in flanges that have a rubber expanding seal that seals on the inside. The problem may be they might not fit tightly on the inside of the flange due to the larger diamater.

 It was a tough repair when I was a service plumber but there may be new fittings to help. try an internet search of repair closet flanges.

Might end up being something like this:

http://www.plumbingstore.com/images/push-tite-closet-flange-for-cast-iron-white.jpg

Plus copious amounts of this:

[BeSeeingYou]

While I am not a fan of Rube Goldberg type repairs on plumbing if you go this route how about gluing in a short section of 4 inch PVC and then you will have the proper attachment point for a flange. Either a compression or glue in that will fit the inside diameter of the PVC.  It may require less copious amounts of goop and less is usually best.  With a file clean up the scale on the cast iron for better adhesion and make sure the pipe is solid.  Use some type of concrete anchor to hold the flange down as well so you are not relying on the sealant to hold the flange/toilet in place.

[faux fiddy]

I spent several hours  searching and I found one plumbing place that seems to have suitable products.

The stuff installed might be an oakum/ lead caulk joint that is a closet flange that fits around the outside of  4" pipe. I still haven't cleaned it up to see if the step from 5" to 4 "
is in fact lead, but it is set in the concrete, and I'm trying to avoid a demolition project.

Here is what I found searching "extra long toilet flange."



The one or two available with the 6" extension, should just fit down far enough. I think I will have to get a hammer drill and punch a few pilot holes in the concrete to screw it down, but better that cobbled together with excessive goop, or jackhammering the old stuff out.

There is also these in 'extra long' 6"  but I'm not sure/ doubt if it would work with iron pipe.


Either way, this place seems to have more alternatives than any other place I've seen.

http://www.lawsupply.net/brass_ware/toilet_parts/index.htm

[BeSeeingYou]

    That black one might be the best option as like you surmise there would be no way to connect up the white one without cutting open the floor.  If you need to gain small bit of length you could add the rubber gasket and extension ring they offer on top of the flange so you can set it down a bit further and still keep it flush with the finished floor.  I would still use a file to clean up the scale inside of the pipe for a better seal.
    One way to get the lead seal apart is to drill closely spaced holes through the lead and pry the remaining lead out with a large screw driver until loose enough to wiggle out.  Might be a bit difficult in this situation and unnecessary as it is set in the concrete but keep it in mind if needed for the other locations.

[Don R]

I think the 5" is the barrel of a deep (tall) 4" over the pipe collar. Used because you can't pour lead and oakum under the flange after you put on the collar.
 
This may be beyond the tools of most handymen and young plumbers. But,

 How about caulking (lead and oakum) a piece of 4" pvc pipe into the existing 5"hub flush with the floor. Let it cool before setting the lead. Then get a 4" inside the pipe glue in PVC flange? The warehouse guy may not understand but they are available, I used them all the time on underground work. Some fit over 3" or inside 4" pipe. The underside of the flange has no taper so it will sit flat on the floor.

[faux fiddy]

I think the 5" is the barrel of a deep (tall) 4" over the pipe collar. Used because you can't pour lead and oakum under the flange after you put on the collar.
 
This may be beyond the tools of most handymen and young plumbers. But,

 How about caulking (lead and oakum) a piece of 4" pvc pipe into the existing 5"hub flush with the floor. Let it cool before setting the lead. Then get a 4" inside the pipe glue in PVC flange? The warehouse guy may not understand but they are available, I used them all the time on underground work. Some fit over 3" or inside 4" pipe. The underside of the flange has no taper so it will sit flat on the floor.

I think this is the direction I will be heading, with a 3-4  rather than trying any major demolition.  It would be nice to keep it brass or Iron, but I guess the PVC will have a metal flange probably stainless if I shop right.