Topic: Now I'm completely befuddled. Please help! Knock pin problem

[stever]

Ok, I'm stumped. I'm new to rebuilding these motors. I used a 77K cylinder with an F2 head. Had CycleX sleeve the inner studs. I've been trying to figure this one out for a week and I surely do need some help. The manual and Hondamans book all mention "knock pins", dowels, and rubber tube gaskets that slip over the outer studs and into machined areas, allowing oil to slide down the stud port into the drains. I found example pics of K5 and F2 cylinder tops:



Now, here's mine.




 WTF is going on here? it appears the recesses weren't machined for the dowels and tubes. See how far into the fire ring the K5 and F2 machining goes?  What the heck am I going to do now? Do I get them machined out for O-rings like an 70-71 or what?

[MRieck]

Steve
 Use one of Kenny's (Cycle X) new MLS gaskets for the 836 (if that is the displacement which i think it is). Don't worry about the lack of dowels (knock pins). Make sure the deck and the head surfaces are smooth. I use a very, very small amount of Hylomar around the gasket drain back holes and the cam tunnel. The new gaskets have a nice embossed area around the cam tunnel and drain back holes which is a good thing.

[Silverback]

You can just leave the knock pins/dowels and seals out. As stated the use of these was to improve the seal, not make the seal. I see what you are saying about the larger holes on the F2/K7+. It looks like you have two of the later style cylinders in your pictures.....or the 75 and 76F models also used these knock pins and seals. The 75/76F cylinders and heads are very similar to the K7/8. The fact is that many have left these seals out on rebuild without ill effects. Call Ken, he has always been very helpful and eager to offer advice.

[RpBet]

I'd go with MRieck's route. If you leave out the pins and especially the seals YOU WILL have oil eventually dripping in your cylinders.

[stever]

MOST EXCELLENT! I just got my hi-zoot whiz bang gasket from Ken. OK, now we are rolling! Many thanks!

[Silverback]

I'd go with MRieck's route. If you leave out the pins and especially the seals YOU WILL have oil eventually dripping in your cylinders.

A bit confused! MRieck said not to worry about leaving them out which is what I have heard many times, and done once.

[RpBet]

I'd go with MRieck's route. If you leave out the pins and especially the seals YOU WILL have oil eventually dripping in your cylinders.

A bit confused! MRieck said not to worry about leaving them out which is what I have heard many times, and done once.

Sorry for the confusion, MRieck did say it was o.k not to use pins. However, My major point was not using seals. If you do not you will have headaches down the road.

[HondaMan]

For the other readers: watch for the issue with the Wiseco head gaskets for the 836 kits if you are building a K4-K8 or "F" engine. The holes in the head gasket must be punched out to clear the dowel pin's rubber seals, or else it will leak oil out the front, in particular, because the gasket sits atop the dowels and won't let the seals seal. The stock Wiseco gasket will fit the K0-K3 head/cylinder combination just fine.