Topic: what else do i need to replace???.....

[xsmooth69x]

my bike is completely taken apart. i actually just got done grinding down the frame so since its all apart what should i replace?

so far i have

rebuilt all my carbs
front fork seals
master cylinder rebuild

probably going to replace the whole wiring harness too if i find a NOS one

so any suggestions guys what else needs to be done

its a 1975 honda cb550 and the last time it ran was in 2002

[c(b)hris]

Do the wheel bearings and steering stem bearings.  It's not as bad as it looks.  I just did them on the same bike you have.  I'm not very good with these kinds of things but I found enough info with the search to walk me through it.  Good Luck :-)

[xsmooth69x]

Do the wheel bearings and steering stem bearings.  It's not as bad as it looks.  I just did them on the same bike you have.  I'm not very good with these kinds of things but I found enough info with the search to walk me through it.  Good Luck :-)

alright ill put those on my list and order those parts

anything else anyone?

[xsmooth69x]

i need help tracking down the steering stem bearing.....

one type of bearing i found has exposed balls in it, another has roller style bearings and another you cant see anything.... any difference?

alsoooo the front and back wheel bearings 

[camelman]

Use a steering stem bearing set that has tapered rollers.  Z1 carries them under the brand name "All Ballz".  The front and rear bearings are even less expensive at $15 for each wheel ($45 or so for the steering bearings), and are likely available at Z1, eBay, Siuriusconinc, others.
If you are serious about your rebuild, then check that swing arm for any play.  You should probably mount it back up to the frame to check it.  If there is any wiggle, then send it off to Hondaman.  It will cost $200, but it might be the best $200 you spend.  Even a little wiggle will make a huge difference.  I have a 350f with a bad swing arm that I thought was a handling magi.  Well, after taking out my 350 twin that has a good swing arm, I realized how mistaken I was and I sent my 350f swing arm to Hondaman for a rebuild.

Other than that, you should sand blast (or otherwise strip the paint), and check for cracks.  If you are keeping the stock paint (which I doubt since you already removed brackets by the sound of it), then just check for cracks.  The side stand has a tendency to rust through on some models, so look around it carefully.

What all are you planning to do to your bike?  That will help us give suggestions on things to do now.  Also, have you ever rebuilt a motorcycle before?

Camelman

[xsmooth69x]

Use a steering stem bearing set that has tapered rollers.  Z1 carries them under the brand name "All Ballz".  The front and rear bearings are even less expensive at $15 for each wheel ($45 or so for the steering bearings), and are likely available at Z1, eBay, Siuriusconinc, others.
If you are serious about your rebuild, then check that swing arm for any play.  You should probably mount it back up to the frame to check it.  If there is any wiggle, then send it off to Hondaman.  It will cost $200, but it might be the best $200 you spend.  Even a little wiggle will make a huge difference.  I have a 350f with a bad swing arm that I thought was a handling magi.  Well, after taking out my 350 twin that has a good swing arm, I realized how mistaken I was and I sent my 350f swing arm to Hondaman for a rebuild.

Other than that, you should sand blast (or otherwise strip the paint), and check for cracks.  If you are keeping the stock paint (which I doubt since you already removed brackets by the sound of it), then just check for cracks.  The side stand has a tendency to rust through on some models, so look around it carefully.

What all are you planning to do to your bike?  That will help us give suggestions on things to do now.  Also, have you ever rebuilt a motorcycle before?

Camelman

wow ok ok

well so far you can see from my link i am posting my build progress.

any bike building experiencessss.... no but i have worked on cars.... i dont even know how to ride a motorcycle this is my first bike 

i have removed all the paint off my bike. there isn't any cracks everything looks good. paint wise well im not going to paint it. im going to leave it raw and clear coat it. when you said brackets.... what brackets and where should i look for cracks?

i was actually looking at Z1 lol thats where i found those roller looking bearing. there seems to be 2 sizes and in the description they both say they can be used for 75 cb550

Steering Bearing SSH750 26x48.5x15.2mm 30x50x14.4mm
CB550F/K/K1/SC
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1503

Steering Bearing 26 x 48.5 x 15 30 x 50 x 14.25
1974 - 78 CB550F
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=2778

also i couldnt find the wheel bearings.....

the swing arm rebuild.... $200 i dont think i can fork that kind of dough.... (im a college kid btw put about $1200 a side spent about $800) what exactly does he do anyways that constitutes $200

when you say if there is any play do you mean when you move the swing arm left and right opposed to how its supposed to move up and down?

i will update my build thread this weekend to show more progress

[camelman]

I'm too tired to give a good response right now, but my $200 figure was a little high. I just got a quote from him for $134 for my 350f.  He will fix up a set of custom bushings for your swing arm and replace various other parts as needed. The 134 includes shipping and a new box since mine broke open in route to him.  The old bushings were out by more than .006 inches and I definitely felt it. I was getting bad speed wobbles and the bike felt very vague when pushed on turns.

[xsmooth69x]

so why cant i just replace the parts myself?

does he have a thread that goes over what he actually does? he makes custom parts?

[johnrdupree]

Steering Bearing 26 x 48.5 x 15 30 x 50 x 14.25
1974 - 78 CB550F
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=2778

also i couldnt find the wheel bearings.....

The second link is the All Balls kit.  Their part number is AB22-1011, and 22-1011 is All Balls part number.  A Google search may turn up a slightly cheaper source.  I think I got mine shipped for just under $40, but I can't recall the seller right now.  Not a huge saving, but every little bit helps.

The wheel bearing numbers are listed on the parts fiche at Bike Bandit, Motogrid, etc.  The Motogrid listing looks something like this:

58    96140-63020    BEARING (6302U)    $9.08       
59    96140-63040-10    BEARING (6304U)    $12.89       
60    96140-63050-10    BEARING (6305U)    $14.27

The numbers you're interested in are the ones in parentheses, in this case 6302, 6304, and 6305.  The 6302 is for the front wheel and you need 2, the 6304 and 6305 are for the rear wheel and you need one of each.  The factory bearings are only sealed on one side, it would be best to replace them with bearings that are sealed on both sides.  To find the right ones just add "-2RS", for 2 rubber seals, to the numbers above (e.g. 6302-2RS).

You can buy them from a dealer, Z1, or an online bearing supplier (I bought mine from http://www.vxb.com/ ,  They had a good price on some swanky Japanese ones and Google checkout).  If you have a bearing supply house near you they'll be able to hook you up, too.

Read up on the various methods for removing the bearing retainers from the wheels.  It's not super difficult, but it needs to be done correctly to keep from boogering up the hubs.

I can't advise you on the swingarm bushings, mine seemed to be in good shape so I just cleaned all the ratty old grease out and put it all back together.  I did replace the grease nipples on the swingarm pivot bolt with modern fittings to make maintenance easier.

Keep asking questions and good luck,
~john

[johnrdupree]

And you should probably add a chain and sprockets to the list.  And tires, tubes, & rim strips.
Since you're overhauling the master cylinder you may as well do the caliper, too.  That's just pads, a seal, and probably a new piston since the originals tend to corrode.  And maybe a bleed nipple.

Sorry, the list never ends,
~john

[JimJamerino]

HondaMan has an excellent reputation on the forum here for his work.  He is recommended for rebuilding your swingarm because he will machine new bushings out of Oilite brass custom to your specific swingarm, in addition to modernizing the grease zerk.  You certainly can do it yourself, but for a few extra dollars you can have a swingarm that is warrantied and top-notch.

[xsmooth69x]

Steering Bearing 26 x 48.5 x 15 30 x 50 x 14.25
1974 - 78 CB550F
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=2778

also i couldnt find the wheel bearings.....

The second link is the All Balls kit.  Their part number is AB22-1011, and 22-1011 is All Balls part number.  A Google search may turn up a slightly cheaper source.  I think I got mine shipped for just under $40, but I can't recall the seller right now.  Not a huge saving, but every little bit helps.

The wheel bearing numbers are listed on the parts fiche at Bike Bandit, Motogrid, etc.  The Motogrid listing looks something like this:

58    96140-63020    BEARING (6302U)    $9.08       
59    96140-63040-10    BEARING (6304U)    $12.89       
60    96140-63050-10    BEARING (6305U)    $14.27

The numbers you're interested in are the ones in parentheses, in this case 6302, 6304, and 6305.  The 6302 is for the front wheel and you need 2, the 6304 and 6305 are for the rear wheel and you need one of each.  The factory bearings are only sealed on one side, it would be best to replace them with bearings that are sealed on both sides.  To find the right ones just add "-2RS", for 2 rubber seals, to the numbers above (e.g. 6302-2RS).

You can buy them from a dealer, Z1, or an online bearing supplier (I bought mine from http://www.vxb.com/ ,  They had a good price on some swanky Japanese ones and Google checkout).  If you have a bearing supply house near you they'll be able to hook you up, too.

Read up on the various methods for removing the bearing retainers from the wheels.  It's not super difficult, but it needs to be done correctly to keep from boogering up the hubs.

I can't advise you on the swingarm bushings, mine seemed to be in good shape so I just cleaned all the ratty old grease out and put it all back together.  I did replace the grease nipples on the swingarm pivot bolt with modern fittings to make maintenance easier.

Keep asking questions and good luck,
~john

dude you are awsome. i wish this site had a rep button cuz this is deff +1

so with the z1 links i posted regarding the steering stem bearings the first link is a roller bearing style and the second link is ball bearings? if so which on is better?

ok regarding the bearings i went to the website put in the # and like 6 bearings pop up. they are all the same sizes but in different configurations??? is there any difference maybe one that works better than another?

i will also read heavily into taking out and instaling the bearings too. the wheels are pretty important on the motorcycle .... i think 

[xsmooth69x]

HondaMan has an excellent reputation on the forum here for his work.  He is recommended for rebuilding your swingarm because he will machine new bushings out of Oilite brass custom to your specific swingarm, in addition to modernizing the grease zerk.  You certainly can do it yourself, but for a few extra dollars you can have a swingarm that is warrantied and top-notch.

ow i know Mr. hondaman has a very good rep on this site. i was just curious on what he did. im going to check out my swing arm and ill consider maybe getting it rebuilt by him 

[xsmooth69x]

And you should probably add a chain and sprockets to the list.  And tires, tubes, & rim strips.
Since you're overhauling the master cylinder you may as well do the caliper, too.  That's just pads, a seal, and probably a new piston since the originals tend to corrode.  And maybe a bleed nipple.

Sorry, the list never ends,
~john

lol tires of course im replacing those but..... wtf are rim strips? arnt those just the tubes? from what i understand you need tires and strips on these bikes.... so what are rim strips 

i checked out my sprocket and they seem to be good they are not pointy and still have good teeth. the chain is deff F'ed though.

what are the diff between x type and o ring style? also how many links do i need 

[johnrdupree]

lol tires of course im replacing those but..... wtf are rim strips? arnt those just the tubes? from what i understand you need tires and strips on these bikes.... so what are rim strips 

A rim strip is a strip of rubber that goes around the rim and covers the ends of the spokes to protect the tube:

Buy them from wherever you get your tubes.

i checked out my sprocket and they seem to be good they are not pointy and still have good teeth. the chain is deff F'ed though.

what are the diff between x type and o ring style? also how many links do i need 

Chain and sprockets should be replaced as a set.  Old sprockets will destroy a new chain in short order.  Even though your sprockets aren't pointy, they have worn and the spacing between the teeth has changed.  This spacing won't exactly match a new chain and will make it wear quickly.

X-ring and O-ring chains are basically the same thing.  They have little rubber rings between the inner and outer plates to keep lubrication inside the roller/pin area.  They are lower maintenance but slightly higher friction (all those rings rubbing on all those plates).  The difference between X and O is the cross section of the ring, some are shaped like an X, some like an O.

It doesn't make any difference to you, though, because you can't use either one on your bike.  X and O-ring chains are wider than a plain version and on the CB550 they will chew up the engine case next to the sprocket.  The good news is the plain version is less expensive, but you have to keep it clean and lubed.  You'll need a 100 link chain.

[johnrdupree]

so with the z1 links i posted regarding the steering stem bearings the first link is a roller bearing style and the second link is ball bearings? if so which on is better?

No, they are both tapered roller bearings.  Ball bearings have little steel balls as the rolling element, those have tapered rods.  The rods give a larger surface area to spread the load.  In reality, ball bearings are fine for this application but tapered roller bearings should wear better and they are a heck of a lot easier to install.  You don't wind up chasing balls all over the place and crawling under the car where half of them wound up.  You just have to be careful when driving the races in place to not get them cocked at an angle.  And when putting the lower bearing on the stem, only apply force to the inner race, not the rollers or the cage (this will make sense when you have them in your hand).

ok regarding the bearings i went to the website put in the # and like 6 bearings pop up. they are all the same sizes but in different configurations??? is there any difference maybe one that works better than another?

Yeah, bearings come in a wide variety of configurations. What you want is a bearing with 2 seals, not shields.  The seals are rubber (or something like it) and keep moisture out and lube in.  The shields are metal and are probably not as moisture resistant.  Don't get the snap ring version.

This is their least expensive version of the front wheel bearing:
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/kit8050

And the rears:
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/6304-2RS-1
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/kit963

I moved up a notch to these:
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit9727
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit9729
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit9730

I don't know if they are better, but it made me feel better.  I have a problem buying the cheapest thing available, Harbor Freight made me like that.

No matter which ones you get, the most important thing is to install them correctly, but that can be a discussion for another day.

~john

[xsmooth69x]

so with the z1 links i posted regarding the steering stem bearings the first link is a roller bearing style and the second link is ball bearings? if so which on is better?

No, they are both tapered roller bearings.  Ball bearings have little steel balls as the rolling element, those have tapered rods.  The rods give a larger surface area to spread the load.  In reality, ball bearings are fine for this application but tapered roller bearings should wear better and they are a heck of a lot easier to install.  You don't wind up chasing balls all over the place and crawling under the car where half of them wound up.  You just have to be careful when driving the races in place to not get them cocked at an angle.  And when putting the lower bearing on the stem, only apply force to the inner race, not the rollers or the cage (this will make sense when you have them in your hand).

ok regarding the bearings i went to the website put in the # and like 6 bearings pop up. they are all the same sizes but in different configurations??? is there any difference maybe one that works better than another?

Yeah, bearings come in a wide variety of configurations. What you want is a bearing with 2 seals, not shields.  The seals are rubber (or something like it) and keep moisture out and lube in.  The shields are metal and are probably not as moisture resistant.  Don't get the snap ring version.

This is their least expensive version of the front wheel bearing:
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/kit8050

And the rears:
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/6304-2RS-1
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/kit963

I moved up a notch to these:
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit9727
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit9729
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit9730

I don't know if they are better, but it made me feel better.  I have a problem buying the cheapest thing available, Harbor Freight made me like that.

No matter which ones you get, the most important thing is to install them correctly, but that can be a discussion for another day.

~john

for an extra dollar or 2 i could upgrade each bearing lol

thank you so much for the advice ill get the "upgraded" bearings. your awesome btw thank you so much john

[xsmooth69x]

cool ordered all the wheel bearings 

[xsmooth69x]

Steering Bearing SSH750 26x48.5x15.2mm 30x50x14.4mm
CB550F/K/K1/SC
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1503

Steering Bearing 26 x 48.5 x 15 30 x 50 x 14.25
1974 - 78 CB550F
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=2778

im sorry to be redundant but i just dont understand the difference in the 2 kits.... which one do i need?

[xsmooth69x]

  bump

[Hannibal Smith]

For your budget, I would definitely replace the steering stem bearings. Replace the wheel bearings if required, don't just replace them out of hand.
Unless the swingarm is really loose and wonkety, put off getting it re-bushed for now.

You are going to go through your budget really quick on the essentials like...............
Electrical knick-knacks
Tires
Fluids
Chain/sprocket/countershaft

Popping the wheel bearings and getting the swingarm serviced can come later, I wouldn't just do this without a good reason, these old bikes are tough as nails, and for every guy that lays awake at night worried about his swingarm, there are 20 dudes bangin' wheelies with bald tires and Crisco in the crankcase.
The DAY I got my 550 I went over 120 miles with the worn out chain and the cracked tires it came with, carbs spewing gas and all. She is getting cherry now, but I would say just get her running right now. This is just my opinion of course.

[xsmooth69x]

well shoot i just ordered $28 for all the bearing for my wheels. ow well they probably need to be changed anyways.

i will for sure test the swing arm again to see if it has and side to side movement. <------- thats what im looking for right side to side movement instead of up and down?

--------------------------------

what is a counter shaft? i google imaged it and i have no idea what that is..... why do i need to change that? changing out the countershaft looks incredibly hard to change. is it really important?

[xsmooth69x]

also after getting these bearings for my wheels...... do i need gaskets? 

i was looking at the all balls bearings for my wheels and they come with gaskets.... did i mess up buying the bearings separate and then now having to have to buy the gaskets when i shouldve just gotten a kit?

or are these gaskets pretty ridged and the only think i need to actually change is the bearing wear and tear parts?

[johnrdupree]

Steering Bearing SSH750 26x48.5x15.2mm 30x50x14.4mm
CB550F/K/K1/SC
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1503

Steering Bearing 26 x 48.5 x 15 30 x 50 x 14.25
1974 - 78 CB550F
http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=2778

im sorry to be redundant but i just dont understand the difference in the 2 kits.... which one do i need?

There isn't much difference in the two kits.  The second one is the All Balls kit that a lot of members, me included, have used.  It has a two different spacers to make sure you can match the depth of the original ball bearing stack, and decent instructions on how to do it.  It also comes with dust shields (the two bronze colored things on the right) and is $10 cheaper than the first one.

I have yet to read about a member needing to replace the dust and oil shields in the wheels.  Since you're installing double sealed bearings, the other seals are almost superfluous.  I'm sure somebody will chew me a new one for saying that but all they do is cut down on corrosion on the axles themselves.  Clean the axles real good and grease them up on reassembly.

I think Hannibal meant the countershaft sprocket.  I hope so, replacing the countershaft itself would be a huge job.
He has a point about the wheel bearings not being the most important thing, but I would counter with...well, the wheels are already off, and you don't know what kind of life it's had, and they're not super expensive, may as well do it now.  Of course, this line of reasoning led my bearing, fork seal, chain/sprocket refurb to become shortened forks, 11" shocks, dual discs, triple tree from a CB5500T, Yamaha enduro headlight, and a bunch of painted parts, along with the bearings, seals, etc.  Because, you know, as long as it's already apart...

[wardenerd]

Sprockets and chain.  Ignition switch,  swing arm bushings clean all the wire connections in the system

[Hannibal Smith]

Yep, I meant countershaft sprocket-
From what I understand, this is your first bike, I would concentrate on getting her running and rolling.
Don't make the classic mistake of getting way too wrapped up on incidentals before you actually get to ride her. It is much easier to work on, and enjoy working on your bike when you have felt her run.
If you take everybody's advice on what must be done, you will have $5000.00 into it before you even start it.
Your biggest hurdle will be the electrics and the carbs.
All I am trying to say, is not to get too worried about the little stuff, popping a swingarm back off is a 10 minute job, you can do that later.
If this is your first bike, you wouldn't notice if the wheels were square, you will be learning the clutch, the shifting, etc. etc.
These old bikes are built like a tank, and are EXTREMELY forgiving.

[xsmooth69x]

well my bike is completely stripped.

i will post more pics of my build when i get back to my other house with the bike

the bike is literally just the frame all parts removed. i just got done grinding the whole thing down. (took all the paint off)

so since the bike is apart i was just replaceing everything since its all apart. the wheel bearings where cheap so i just decided to change them out.

ow the counter shaft sprocket..... the front sprocket lol

i was also reading that some riders like changing the sprocket size. i have to change the chain because its just rust. its been soaking for a week and when i get home ill check it but i think its F'ed.

so reading some people i think add or subtract a couple teeth i cant remember to gain top or low end..... i remember skimming a read like that awhile ago....

i want this bike to be quick for like a 1/8-1/2 mile. stop light to stop light. i dont really need some crazy top speed. i dont think ill ever go over 70-80mph for extended periods of time. so should i change the teeth # front or rear?

so since im replacing the chain i heard it was a good idea to change the front and rear sprocket. is there any chain size, front and rear sprocket to look for?

i put aside a decent amount of money $1500 or so. i spent $650 for the bike spent maybe $250 for misc parts. used headers and NOS point cover $50 (good shape) $200 (all 4 carb rebuild, front forks seals, master cylinder rebuild, wheel bearings, stem bearing kit, 35w 6000k hid kit, misc tubes)

and i just bought some super vintage monroe shocks for $60 <---- maybe a stupid buy but they look really cool

[Hannibal Smith]

Ow I thought you were on a budget-

[xsmooth69x]

Ow I thought you were on a budget-

i am on a budget its $1500ish  i mean the more i can save the better dont get me wrong but i can afford maybe some nice things. i am just a college kid though so the more i can save maybe i can eat a steak one day 

[Hannibal Smith]

Ow I thought you were on a budget-

Ow-

i am on a budget its $1500ish  i mean the more i can save the better dont get me wrong but i can afford maybe some nice things. i am just a college kid though so the more i can save maybe i can eat a steak one day