Topic: cb550 front and rear sprocket questions?...

[xsmooth69x]

^ lol the post above says no o-ring......

what is the chain pitch..... should i be messing with that?

the standard gearing change has always been one down on the countershaft, two up on the rear. fuel economy, and top speed will be sacrificed.

in very relative terms, dropping one tooth off the front is the equivalent of a few ft/lbs of torque. if you know the bike and have a good grasp of what the machine is doing, you will notice a difference in drive coming out of a turn or leaving a stoplight. roll on power doesn't really change too awful much when going in a straight line.

one down one up is great for a sporty ride that is still civil on the interstate. one down two up can become a bother after a hundred miles of expressway riding (that being said, it really isn't 'that' bad).

using a racer's logic, gear the bike to drive out of the fast turns. that's where you will make up the most time and pick up speed.

also, for a decent boost in performance, consider swapping to a 520 pitch chain and sprockets. it will drop a noticeable amount of weight (free hp) and often is cheaper to buy. also, x-ring is the new o-ring and worth the extra money.

the concern of excess wear due to smaller sprockets is pretty bogus. sprockets will last 20k miles or more of fast paced street riding when the chain is properly adjusted and lubricated (i run 15-50 on my r6 streetbike. my driven steel 520 sprocket an ek chain had 29k miles on them when i replaced them last winter. no broken teeth, no knife points, no stiff spots in the chain. the countershaft sprocket looked almost new). the more you wheelie a bike, or put an abrupt load on the sprocket, the faster it will wear. power wheelies are fine, clutch dropping is bad. having the rear axle alignment slightly off will also cost you in terms of sprocket and chain life.

i would also strongly caution you on purchasing an aluminum countershaft sprocket. i highly doubt the longevity and safety.

hope this helps.

[xsmooth69x]

also regarding the chain ive see 105 links and 100 links.... which one is it?

is there a technical name for a motorcycle chain that is not an o ring or x ring/type?

[Kong]

I think a bunch of the confusion above comes from this, all 550's didn't have the same gearing.  The last two years came stock with 17/37 tooth sprockets.  On them all you have to do is order a 16 tooth front and you will be in business.  On earlier bikes they had some different combination of sprocket sizes, but off hand I don't remember what they were.

Going to 16 on the front of a later model 550 won't make much difference at all on your top end, some of the members here have gone down to 15 on the front with the 37 rear and while that combination might leave the bike too buzzy for most of us it wouldn't be so bad if you lived in a city and did little or no interstate or other continuous fast riding.  As mentioned above the stock gearing isn't all that bad either, but just remember this; Honda geared the bike for the general buying public.  You aren't the general buying public, you have your own expectations from the bike and it is simply little modifications like that that make the bike suite your needs.  There is this too, front sprockets are dirt cheap and are easy to change.  Try a couple and see what you like.  You won't have any problem reselling one of them if it doesn't work out so the lesson will only cost you a couple of bucks.

[xsmooth69x]

I think a bunch of the confusion above comes from this, all 550's didn't have the same gearing.  The last two years came stock with 17/37 tooth sprockets.  On them all you have to do is order a 16 tooth front and you will be in business.  On earlier bikes they had some different combination of sprocket sizes, but off hand I don't remember what they were.

Going to 16 on the front of a later model 550 won't make much difference at all on your top end, some of the members here have gone down to 15 on the front with the 37 rear and while that combination might leave the bike too buzzy for most of us it wouldn't be so bad if you lived in a city and did little or no interstate or other continuous fast riding.  As mentioned above the stock gearing isn't all that bad either, but just remember this; Honda geared the bike for the general buying public.  You aren't the general buying public, you have your own expectations from the bike and it is simply little modifications like that that make the bike suite your needs.  There is this too, front sprockets are dirt cheap and are easy to change.  Try a couple and see what you like.  You won't have any problem reselling one of them if it doesn't work out so the lesson will only cost you a couple of bucks.

well when you say late model what does that mean? i have 1975 cb550k1 so is mine early or late?

so in regards to the chain if i switch from a 17 to a 16 or any other combination will i have to change the chain size?

also is it 105 or 100 links?

^^^^ and from above im getting mixed reviews. i had a similar thread that got off subject and chains started coming into effect and some say o-ring and no o-ring

ya i think i might just buy a 16 and a 17 they are pretty cheap.

also from above they say a smaller front sprocket wears more on the engine. so why not add more teeth to the back? wouldn't that give the same results? or is it harder to find rear sprockets and or there more expensive?

so many questions lol

[TwoTired]

I think a bunch of the confusion above comes from this, all 550's didn't have the same gearing.  The last two years came stock with 17/37 tooth sprockets. 

NOT true, all the CB550s came 17/37 sprockets, beginning in 1974.  Check out the service manual.  It has all the numbers in there.

It was the CB500 that was different; 17/34.  And that was because the primary ratio changed in the transition from 500 to 550
Cb500 primary 2.00.   Cb550 primary 3.063
 The rear sprocket had to change to get the final drive ratio down to reasonable.

Bear in mind that the lower the tooth count, the smaller the diameter.  Smaller diameters make the chain bend more, and it wears faster because of that.

...if you care...

[Ringo]

Well, first off, everybody has an opinion, and they all think they're right.  So here's some facts for ya:

-Do not under any circumstances run a 530 o-ring chain on your cb550.
-Increasing the rear sprocket size does the same thing as decreasing the front.
-As TT said, a smaller sprocket CAN increase chain wear.
-You need a 100 link chain.  You can typically keep the same size chain if you don't add or subtract more than one or two teeth.   With my +3 rear, I had to go to a 102 link chain.

[xsmooth69x]

Well, first off, everybody has an opinion, and they all think they're right.  So here's some facts for ya:

-Do not under any circumstances run a 530 o-ring chain on your cb550.
-Increasing the rear sprocket size does the same thing as decreasing the front.
-As TT said, a smaller sprocket CAN increase chain wear.
-You need a 100 link chain.  You can typically keep the same size chain if you don't add or subtract more than one or two teeth.   With my +3 rear, I had to go to a 102 link chain.

sorry to ask so many questions but no one in my family has a bike but. when you get a bike chain can you add and subtract links yourself or do you have to buy the chains pre made

[Ringo]

You can easily subtract links, just cut them off.  You can add too, but you need the tools.  It's just easier to buy a little big and cut it down.

[xsmooth69x]

is there any brand recommendations for regular none o or x ring chains?

or are chains just chains

im for sure getting some jt sprockets since that was recommended unless someone knows better or some kinda of super cool light weight moon sprockets and chains 

[dave500]

jt can supply the chain aswell i think,not jt brand but say "DID' or "EK" or "RK" dont get the standard,use the heavy duty non o ring type in any good brand,EK seems the cheapest,i have them on two bikes.

[Kong]

Sorry about the mistake on the number of teeth on the sprockets, I didn't realize that when others talked about that other set of sprockets they were refering to the ones found on the 500 bikes.

You want a 100 link chain.  You do not - under any circumstances - want an O-Ring chain.  There are several pictures to be found on this site that show what happens to the rubber plug directly in front of the front sprocket when an O-ring chain is used.  In short the chain will cut through the engine cases as well as the rubber plug and the engine will start leaking oil.  As I said, there are several photographs of it on this very site, including one from one of my engines that some damned fool put an O-Ring chain on.

Yes, its true that in terms of the ratio there isno difference between making the front smaller and making the rear bigger, but that does not for a second mean that there is no difference.  You can make the front sprocket as small as you like and the chain will never hit the chain guard, but if you get the rear too large the chain will hit the chain guard.

As for final ratios, the 17/37 gearing gives you a ratio of 2.18:1  There is no other combination of gears that will give you that ratio; the closes you can come is 2.19 (16/35) or 2.17 (18/39).  As that ratio number gets higher you will see quicker acceleration and in some cases you will actually increase your top end speed.  However as a general rule as the number gets higher you lose top end.

If you really want to get your bike geared right you should emulate the routine that is followed by boat owners when selecting their propellers.  Propeller pitch, blade shape and size, and number of blades work in combination to have the same effect on a boat as gear and tire selection have on a motorcycle.   Their goal is the same as yours, but the boat guys have figured out an easy way to do it while the bike guys stand around with their thumb up their butt and offer opinions that are based exclusively on what they like rather than what makes the bike run best.  If you want that bike to run as well as it can throughout the range then you need to gear the bike such that it can just attain it rated Red-line at wide open throttle in top gear.  If you can't do that then you need to go down on the front sprocket.  If you find that you can exceed red-line in top gear - something that nearly no 550 can do, then you would need a larger front gear.

[dave500]

If you find that you can exceed red-line in top gear - something that nearly no 550 can do, then you would need a larger front gear.

my standard geared 550 must be a good one then?

[Tom in Newcastle......Ontario]

wow so many numbers...... 

soo when you all say 17/37 you mean 17 teeth in the front and 37 teeth in the back (this is the stock teeth for the front rear of the cb550 right?)

and when you say im running a 14.2 rear you mean the tire??....

but anyways thanks you everyone for sorting this out with me i much apreciate it. i will run the stock gearing for a bit and if i get bored i might start tinkering and buying different sprockets.

does anyone know whats a good place to get a front and rear with chain set so i can replace everything?

also do they make light weight sprockets as an option?

Since you asked her is my for sale ad..........http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=88230.0

[retrorabbit]

Well, first off, everybody has an opinion, and they all think they're right.  So here's some facts for ya:

-Do not under any circumstances run a 530 o-ring chain on your cb550.
-Increasing the rear sprocket size does the same thing as decreasing the front.
-As TT said, a smaller sprocket CAN increase chain wear.
-You need a 100 link chain.  You can typically keep the same size chain if you don't add or subtract more than one or two teeth.   With my +3 rear, I had to go to a 102 link chain.

1. I have a 530 o-ring on my 72 cb500. Care to explain why this shouldn't be done?
2. Can you back up this statement with factual testing?

Possibly #2 was just a general statement. Any time you increase the number of rotations on any loaded item, you will increase it's wear rate. However, the increase in wear is negligable as the chain will be past it's usable life span well before a properly maintained front sprocket will even begin to 'wear out'. I'd be interested in reading about any kind of testing, you or anyone else has preformed.


To answer the earlier question about chain pitch: a 530 chain has a 3/8" gap between the side plates that the sprocket teeth fit into. A 520 chain has a 2/8" (actually 1/4", but thats how the pitch number is read) gap. 525 chain pitch is a 5/16? gap... you get the idea?

520 being roughly 75% the weight of a 530 chain (give or take - materials/brand dependent). You must change both sprockets when converting to a 520 chain.

[TwoTired]

1. I have a 530 o-ring on my 72 cb500. Care to explain why this shouldn't be done?
2. Can you back up this statement with factual testing?

See the attached pic where the oring chain rubs the rubber coated metal plug in the case.  (Result of a very short run with a 530 oring chain on a 550.)
Oring chain is wider than the standard chain to accommodate the orings.

You can run a 520 oring chain with compatible sprockets.
You CAN run a 530 oring chain if you use an offset front sprocket to regain the needed clearance from the rubber coated plug.

[hyde7278]

+1 on what TwoTired said

 do a search for oring chain damage you should get quite a few pictures of damaged seals and cases,

 I have a spare engine that some one must have run a oring chain and theres a very nice groove in the seal and cases (not leaking) luckaly

 You have a cb500 im not sure if it will have the same prob as the 550's or not anyone that knows if the set up is the same for a 500 and 550 please chime in

[retrorabbit]

1. I have a 530 o-ring on my 72 cb500. Care to explain why this shouldn't be done?
2. Can you back up this statement with factual testing?

See the attached pic where the oring chain rubs the rubber coated metal plug in the case.  (Result of a very short run with a 530 oring chain on a 550.)
Oring chain is wider than the standard chain to accommodate the orings.

You can run a 520 oring chain with compatible sprockets.
You CAN run a 530 oring chain if you use an offset front sprocket to regain the needed clearance from the rubber coated plug.

This explains the 1.5mm shim on the engine side of my front sprocket. I had wrongly assumed this was a factory part to prevent this very problem. Good info.

[xsmooth69x]

so the standard on the cb550k1 is 530 100 link 17/37

does anyone know if there are light weight sprockets out there?

sunstar looks like they have one, also parts unlimited..... i dont know about jt though.

[Ringo]

Sprocket Specialists, in my first post, can make you any size you desire in aluminum.  My rear sprocket is a fraction of the weight of the old steel one.  $60ish.

[xsmooth69x]

Sprocket Specialists, in my first post, can make you any size you desire in aluminum.  My rear sprocket is a fraction of the weight of the old steel one.  $60ish.

ya i didnt want to spend that much or have one custom made.... i was just wondering if there was a brand that sold pre made ones or are they all just oem steel?

[xsmooth69x]

bumppp

[McNaughton]

I have a related gearing question; PO put a 16" rear wheel on my 1976 CB550. The time has come to replace the chain and sprockets. There's currently a 34 tooth sprocket on the back. Not sure what's on the front because I haven't pulled the cover off yet, but does anyone think going down to 34 was done to compensate for the smaller wheel? Can anyone recommend the best gearing for a 16" rear wheel? Currently she's a bit sluggish off the line, bit flat in 3rd/4th, but cruises smoothly at 65mph at 4000rpm, most I've taken her to is 85-90 at 6500 or so but haven't had the opportunity to see if she'll go faster at higher revs. I'd be fine with the same performance but since I'm replacing the sprockets anyway I thought I'd see if anyone can recommend a quick switch that would improve performance. Thanks!

[TwoTired]

Stock is 17/37 with a stock height TIRE.   18" plus 2 (tire sidewalls and tread) of 3.75 = 25.5" diameter stock rear wheel.

Many 16 wheel conversions had tall sidewall tires on them.  Common (chopper) change back in the day was to make bike into a rigid frame put on a small wheel with tall sidewall to get back some cushion for reduced back pain.  The resultant tall tires on 16 rims were pretty close to a stock height equivalent.  Lots of variations with extended forks, etc. to get that big chopper "look"

Anyway, lot's of Harley riders can't stand winding up the little 550 motor, even though it is perfectly happy with the RPM.  Either that, or they put on loud pipes and the high RPM draws the ear of patrol vehicles.  So lower gearing to get by.

Either way, the stock ratios and tire sizes work best for all around driving.

[McNaughton]

Stock is 17/37 with a stock height TIRE.   18" plus 2 (tire sidewalls and tread) of 3.75 = 25.5" diameter stock rear wheel.

Many 16 wheel conversions had tall sidewall tires on them.  Common (chopper) change back in the day was to make bike into a rigid frame put on a small wheel with tall sidewall to get back some cushion for reduced back pain.  The resultant tall tires on 16 rims were pretty close to a stock height equivalent.  Lots of variations with extended forks, etc. to get that big chopper "look"

Anyway, lot's of Harley riders can't stand winding up the little 550 motor, even though it is perfectly happy with the RPM.  Either that, or they put on loud pipes and the high RPM draws the ear of patrol vehicles.  So lower gearing to get by.

Either way, the stock ratios and tire sizes work best for all around driving.

I figure I'll replace the rear with a stock sized one at some point. In the meantime, maybe I'll just stick with what's on there, since it seems to be working. Thanks.

[TwoTired]

The point is, you have to measure the tire diameter to figure out the final ratio.