Author Topic: 78 750F3 rust bucket  (Read 11874 times)

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Offline Graydude

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78 750F3 rust bucket
« on: May 25, 2011, 10:42:52 AM »
Just got this 78 from my son who did not want to take on the project.  This is my first Honda so I have lots to learn.  I don't plan a ground up restoration but rather a " hey, that looks good for a 33 year old  bike"  It has not run in 14 years and spent most of that time out doors.  I've not checked the compression yet but it will kick over.  It went down hard on the right side which is prolly when the PO put in on blocks.  I'll be a frequent visitor trying to utilize all this tremendous knowledge!

Side view of rust bucket


She went down hard on the right side by the PO.  My guess that's when it was parked.  In 1998!


I gots some rubbing to do
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 11:14:21 PM by Graydude »

Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2011, 05:02:43 PM »
It doesn't look as bad as it could have and we have seen a lot worse put back on the road so take heart from that.  The fact that it will turn over is a big plus.  get some Seafoam or some other type of lube in the cylinders before you spin it over too much.  You may even have lousy or uneven compression at first but it may improve after a bit of run time.

Now how does a bike get rusty in California?  I thought "It Never Rains in Southern California", at least that's what the song said. ;)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 05:09:56 PM by srust58 »

Offline Graydude

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2011, 10:40:39 PM »
You are right it does not rain here in SoCal.  The bike came from Washington last Saturday so it has only known moss and moisture!

Offline MoMo

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2011, 10:53:28 PM »
Welcome.  As stated previously it does not look all that bad but you sure have your work cut out. I've done worse as have many others on this site.

 Have you ridden the Iron Butt?...Larry

Offline Graydude

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2011, 12:22:49 AM »
Yes I've finished a saddle sore 1000.  1,153 miles in 19 hours.  All IB rides are done within the speed limits or you don't get credit for the ride.  it's about timing, routing and how fast you can fuel and go!

Offline Graydude

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2011, 11:30:48 AM »
Let the migraines begin!  Just startred the tear down stage.  I was kinda on the fence where to go with this bike but I've made the decision to go for it.  It won't look like new but it will get a powdercoated frame, top and bottom end rebuild, new paint and all rubber will be replaced.  This bike went down hard with the PO (I have no idea who it was or what the story was as this was an abandoned bike).  It was left on it's side stand for 14 years outside.  The rust and damage is heaviest on the highside as you would expect.

Here is my ignition side after I removed the cover plate.  Note the two broken screws at 12:00 and 6:00 from the cover plate.  The bottom one is breaking the out of the threaded hole since I tried to drill out the broken screw.  That is a #2 Easy out stuck in there.  Any ideas how to salvage the hole?  Can I fill it with something and re tap it?  The dangling unit is a Martek 440 electronic ignition.  it was damaged in the fall.  Is this a good one to replace with or is there a better EI system in use?


Here is the exhaust for number 1.  Lots of rust.  The fluid is LPS penertrating fluid.  I sprayed for several days.  No broken studs or bolts.


Intake for number 4


Intake for number 1 has much less rust.  I did a compression check and got 133 from this hole.  I only got 30 PSI from number 4.


I have allot of work to do and plenty of time so stay tuned.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 01:51:40 PM by Graydude »

Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2011, 09:26:38 AM »
If you can't go up a size for the holes the easy thing to do would be fill them with JB Weld and retap.  I have used this method on boats many times using regular epoxy but you need JB that can stand up to heat that regular epoxy does not.  One method I used is to partially fill the hole and then stick in the bolt (lightly coated with WD40) and allow to dry. Unscrew the bolt and you have cast in threads.  JB is a bit thicker than regular epoxy so I am not sure how well it would form around very small threads but it is easy to drill out and try again.

Offline Graydude

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 09:32:26 AM »
Great suggestion.  Thanks!

Offline jaguar

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 01:45:14 PM »
make sure you do a leak down test to confirm if its the rings or valves.



Offline rooky

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2011, 02:02:20 PM »
hope you have deep pockets looks expensive
rickman honda 900
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Offline Graydude

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2011, 09:11:17 AM »
It was either a villa in France or this rebuild.  Prolly should have gone with the villa.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2011, 04:16:59 PM »
I think I'd go at it this way:
1. Get a full gasket kit and head seal pucks (PartsNmore has the pucks, I think).
2. Take the engine out, and pull off that top end. At this point, no matter what you choose to do, the 14 years of sitting will result in a bunch of oil leaks after it runs a while (I haven't seen that fail, yet!).
3. Figure out what size pistons those are: if they are stock and the miles are low, and the bores not rusted, you can get new rings on eBay (look for Mrssuperdeals, MC rings) for about $30. Or, get some oversize pistons if the bores are damaged, or for a more complete job of it, but then it will have to be bored to fit them. That will probably cost about $200 in machine shop work, if I understand California's machine shops...
4. Take out those valves and spin them in a drill, polish off that rust with crocus cloth or 600 grit sandpaper and see how they look afterward. They might be OK. New ones are about $10 each at VintageCB750.
5. Most important on the "F" bikes: you'll have to check the clearance on the (at least) exhaust valve's guides. We can talk about that when you get there...this is the highest-wear part in all of the 750 engines, beginning in 1976.
6. Pull out the clutch plates and soak them in oil at least overnight. This will prevent damage to them when you go to start it up again. Otherwise, they are now so dry that the first time they slip against each other they will damage their cork faces, as they have conformed to the tiny dimples in the steel pressure plates. Soaking them will mitigate this problem and probably save the clutch.

And go from there?
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Offline Graydude

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2011, 04:47:45 PM »
Excellent plan Hondaman.  Thanks!  The bike only has 24K miles so I hope the pistons are Ok.  If the cylinder bores look good and no sign of rust should I still plan on rings just for PM?  I'm assuming the cylinder bore will need honing as well if I'm doing rings, correct?  There were no apparent oil leaks on the bike and there was still oil in the sump and oil tank but the head will no doubt need an overhaul.  I'm ditching the oil cooler per your advice.

As always, thanks for the suggestions!

Offline oldk6guy

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2011, 05:13:55 PM »
i bought my 75 cb750k5 in non-running condition.  upon tear down i found out that the number three cylinder was badly scored from a broken piston ring.  this bike has only 15,xxx original miles!  your low compression maybe.....?
76 cb750 k6: 4 into 4 exhaust, open air horns on carbs.

Offline Graydude

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2011, 09:45:51 PM »
yeah could be bad news inside but the way I look at is CB750s are like land.  They aren't making any more so better hold on to what you got!

Offline Graydude

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2011, 10:02:13 PM »
I am officially in the "getting my butt kicked" stage.  Bike is all apart.

Frame is ready to be powder coated


Here is the motor in happier times


Here is where the fun begins.  Note the broken screws at 12:00 and 6:00?  the top one has an easy out stuck in it's hole. 
The bottom hole broke apart while gently trying to insert an easy out.  I was being gentle.  Honest


The bike sat on it's side stand for 14 years.  Note the water damage to #4 piston


#4 valve is toast.  It moves inside the guide but I fear the seat is gone.


The rings on #4 were almost fused to the piston.  They were totally destroyed upon removal.
Now I'm in desperate need of at least one set of rings but you may know 78 750 F3 rings are as rare as
teeth on a hen.  Can anyone help?


This is gonna be ugly.  Note my stalactite looking cylinder head bolt.


Here is that PITA bolt after it melted or broke in progressively smaller pieces as I inched my way down it's shaft.  Wait...
that can't be good.


My life is a living hell now.  I wake up in the morning and see rust everywhere.  I had to resort to drinking clear coffee to get
in a better mood.  I could sure use some suggestions.  Recycling is starting to sound pretty good.  Click here is you want to see the
rest of the depressing pictures.
http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/j458/graydude1/Inside%20motor/
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 10:05:46 PM by Graydude »

Offline jaguar

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2011, 10:29:58 PM »
yeah thats a whole lot of not good going on there....

Offline geemann

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2011, 12:11:13 AM »
you might do well to pick up a salvaged engine. it could be still be in "needs rebuild condition" if that is what you are into.  after looking at all those pics, at this point, it is not likely that would find an engine that would be a bigger headache.  plus you would have some spare parts.

goodluck,
-g
my drug of choice has two wheels and 750cc

Offline strynboen

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2011, 12:32:22 AM »
i see no problems..get drillet those broken bolts aut..glass blast all..autsides..klean,, tjek wear...have you tester valvet guides..if they also are bad think over an other  parts engine
its better to bay new parts then old engines..but low miles engines are more commen in yours parts of world in europa they run them to death
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 12:54:07 AM by strynboen »
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
i hate all this v-w.... vords

Offline MasterChief750

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2011, 08:50:14 AM »
dealer will be best choice for the rings. servicehonda.com had the best price for my 78k
1978 CB750 K - Project Red Headed Step Child
1976 CB750 K - Drag Bike
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Offline mrrch

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2011, 09:27:27 AM »
Get a $110 big bore kit from Japan. It's all repairable, just don't rush.
my build

1977 CB750K WITH 1976 CB750F ENGINE

Offline oldk6guy

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2011, 08:14:32 AM »
i ordered the ebay $110 big bore kit from japan.  looks like quality parts and it was amazingly fast shipping, took exactly one week to get here.
76 cb750 k6: 4 into 4 exhaust, open air horns on carbs.

Offline Mandic

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2011, 05:05:07 PM »
The $110 big bore kits are useless in a F2/3 motor.  The combustion chamber on a F2/3 is larger for the bigger valves.  You need pistons with a bigger piston dome.  The only options are custom pistons, Cycle-X pistons, or Dynoman.  I have a Cycle-X 836 piston kit in my motor.

What are you going to use for cylinders?  I mean if the pistons and all are THAT nasty, the cylinders need to be bored I am sure.  So just re-ringing won't do the job.  And using K pistons on an F block with F head is a no go unless you make modifications. 
77 CB750F - Cafe/Daily Rider

Offline Graydude

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2011, 07:19:16 PM »
I'm going with the first oversize so my bores will be 61.5 MM after I have them bored out .50 MM.  I know I will lose some performance by tossing the big dome stock pistons but I should make up some of it with the oversize giving me more displacement.  I got the oversize kit from Z1 for $200.  I'm having the valve seats replaced as we speak in the #4 cylinder as well as a new intake and exhaust valves.  The other seats appear to be in good shape and all valves are getting new brass guides and of course new valve seals.  The head is being cleaned up overall.  I'm not looking to build a screaming motor.  I just want as close to stock performance and durability as I can get.  I'm pleased with punch with 70 HP!

Offline jaguar

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Re: 78 750F3 rust bucket
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2011, 07:22:46 PM »
The $110 big bore kits are useless in a F2/3 motor.  The combustion chamber on a F2/3 is larger for the bigger valves.  You need pistons with a bigger piston dome.  The only options are custom pistons, Cycle-X pistons, or Dynoman.  I have a Cycle-X 836 piston kit in my motor.

What are you going to use for cylinders?  I mean if the pistons and all are THAT nasty, the cylinders need to be bored I am sure.  So just re-ringing won't do the job.  And using K pistons on an F block with F head is a no go unless you make modifications. 

+1
the F2/3 are kinda bastards....