Topic: Cheap 836 kits back on ebay...$110! *Update!

[That 70s Bike]

he has another 36 kits in a separate listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140568653706&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

[Grnrngr]

got one package today, front pads for the Auto, front and rear brakes for the K2 and an engine gasket set, nice lookin stuff. Can't wait to get the big box from the post office tomorrow, guess it was too big to fit behind the screen door   

[samaleshi]

Hey guys, I just received one of these kits too. The quality looks good at first blush. Anyone get theirs running yet?

[coma13]

I'll be installing mine this winter. My head gasket got bent in half in transit, is that going to pose a problem?

[Grnrngr]

Looking forward to putting mine together soon as well. As long as the metal rings aren't creased, you're probably ok..if it bent at the center of the gasket, straighten it out and rub a little vaseline on the crease and see if it doesn't puff back up a little. I'm just bummed I didn't get the carb kits in time. I decided he was a worthy contributor, and went shopping... got the 836 kit, front pads for the k2 and the auto, back brakes for the k2 and Virago, and complete gasket set for my 74 750 motor. Back brakes for the Virago were easy $20 cheaper than anyone else. Haven't compared prices on anything else but I've been shopping for those for a while, now I'm just waitin for the tire to get bald enough.

[sv9cvk]

It's almost a miracle, but it slipped through the customs and they didn't charge taxes. So finally I paid only 187 euros for two sets, including head gasket. That's very cheap.

The same with mine order (two 836 sets and two extra ring sets) the packet silpped through the customs .
Really good price ! I hope trouble free also!!!

[excellrec]

I'm guessing all those who had purchased them aren't replying because they probably died when these welded themselves to the cylinder sleeves, locked up the rear tire and got shot off the road. 

harsh.

It was in jest, although I think a healthy distrust of parts that seem to cheap to be true isn't necessarily a bad thing.  Although Hondaman seems to be able to make them work, he also really knows what he's doing.

[Terry in Australia]

Scepticism is natural, and not unhealthy, but these kits are as good as I've seen, and if it wasn't for the fact that I sold both of mine for a 100% profit, I'd have used them with no concerns at all.

I was going to buy another kit, but I just scored a good used Wiseco 836cc kit and matching bored cylinders for 40 bucks, (good ol' EBay) so I'll buy a new set of Wiseco rings and circlips, and be good to go. Cheers, Terry.  

[srbakker]

Hmm.  I can't help but think of the old rule... Cheap, fast and reliable, pick any two.
I was thinking of going with the Wiseco kit at 4x the price, but this is pretty tempting.

[Grnrngr]

On the other hand, I'm of the opinion that there's a whole LOT of stuff out that that's WAY more expensive than it should be. You'll never catch me paying $100 for some damn running shoes that cost $3 to make.

[Roach Carver]

marked

[mrjack55]

Just placed the order.    
Planning on an engine rebuild over the winter.  Figured, why not punch her out to 836?

[malcolmgb]

Anyone in the UK bought this or the 460 kit which I am interested in? I was curious to know if HM Customs wanted duty paying.

[fasturd]

Well seeing as we are all wondering about bigger bores and cheap kits...

I Found a NOS HA"Henry Abe" Complete 900cc kit in a pile of Honda stuff I bought.

1.) Is it a viable kit for normal, if excessive, street use?

2.) I thought I read once that the liners for this kit could be used without modifiying the crankcase because of the taper on the sleeve?

3.) Is it nuts to consider using it on a bike that will see mostly street use?

4.) Does anyone have installation/machining instructions for this kit?

5.) And if common sense says to not use it on the street will anyone still use 30+ y/o 900cc kit?

Inquiring minds want to know?!?!?
Thanks

[liPPy]

Can somebody please confirm what bore diameter I instruct the machinist to use for these pistons?

Honda manual states min clearance of 0.004 - 0.0016, but that is for standard pistons.

Thanks!

[bert96]

I installed a set on a gently-used bike last year. I think it has about 500 miles on it now. Be sure to use the clearance of 0.0010" to 0.0012" wit those pistons, as they do not have the micro-groove skirts like some 836 kits.

If nothing else is done but boring and installing these type of 836 pistons, the typical HP increase is about 8. If you follow all the steps in my book, like valve work, port work, quench band, spark curve change, and final carb tuning with stock airbox (NOT pods), you can get 12 HP from the installation. If you also add a mild cam like the K0 cam, this can add 2 HP more to that figure. If you go much further than that, like a Webcam 41 or something, you might wish to consider stronger rods as you nudge toward 80 HP. MRieck can install larger intake valves for you, too, which can push it to a 90 HP and require that you think about something other than a stock spoked rear wheel. 

[mrjack55]

Bert,
I think you missed this one later in the thread.  They do have micro-groves.  This changes the clearance.

Lippy, do all your homework before talking to your machine shop...i.e. talk to Hondaman first!

Yep, those have micro-grooves. Very nice! Make sure your machine shop sets the clearance between 0.0008" and 0.0012" when you use those, as the grooves will break in and add up to 0.0004" more on the skirts. Too much clearance invites poor skirt-to-oil-to-bore contact, and these pistons can then get too hot. With cast forged pistons, like the Wiseco, they are different alloys and need more clearance (0.0020") for other reasons, so don't confuse these with those.

Remember, too, that increasing the bore size while retaining the stock chamber size also raises the compression ratio quite a bit. These should work out at between 9.25:1 and 9.4:1, depending on whether you add a quench band to the head or not.

[jaguar]

im really really close to breaking down and ordering a set

[Grnrngr]

I waited too long last time, took almost a year before he had them back in stock. This time I waited too long to get the carb gaskets and...well, I have no carb gaskets...

[liPPy]

Bert,
I think you missed this one later in the thread.  They do have micro-groves.  This changes the clearance.

Lippy, do all your homework before talking to your machine shop...i.e. talk to Hondaman first!

Thanks guys!

I'm in the homework stage as we speak. I have the pistons and I took them to the machine shop today. The guy looked them over, grunted a bit and asked for the bore specs.

When I got back I checked the Honda manual them read this thread and saw two other specs, so now I have three to choose from:

Honda manual, Hondaman with no grooves & Hondaman with grooves.

Given that the pistons DO have microgrooves I'm assuming I go with the 8-12 thousandth tolerance as described by Hondaman but wanted to double check before I give them the nod, hence my post.


Yep, those have micro-grooves. Very nice! Make sure your machine shop sets the clearance between 0.0008" and 0.0012" when you use those, as the grooves will break in and add up to 0.0004" more on the skirts. Too much clearance invites poor skirt-to-oil-to-bore contact, and these pistons can then get too hot. With cast forged pistons, like the Wiseco, they are different alloys and need more clearance (0.0020") for other reasons, so don't confuse these with those.

Remember, too, that increasing the bore size while retaining the stock chamber size also raises the compression ratio quite a bit. These should work out at between 9.25:1 and 9.4:1, depending on whether you add a quench band to the head or not.

[Elan]

I did .0008 on the outside pistons and .0010 on the inside pistons.  The machinist reccomended the bigger gap on the inside ones because those cylinders run hotter, and thus expand slightly more. wierd I know. But the guy had been doing it since the 70's and swore by it, and I honestly didnt really care that much.  Runs great. I even have an f head on K cylinders so I get lower compression, but everything seems to work nicely, and it gives the fastest accelleration ive even sat on

[liPPy]

I did .0008 on the outside pistons and .0010 on the inside pistons.  The machinist reccomended the bigger gap on the inside ones because those cylinders run hotter, and thus expand slightly more. wierd I know. But the guy had been doing it since the 70's and swore by it, and I honestly didnt really care that much.  Runs great. I even have an f head on K cylinders so I get lower compression, but everything seems to work nicely, and it gives the fastest accelleration ive even sat on

So for these 65mm pistons,  gap of 0.0010 = Measured bore diameter of 65mm + 0.001" or does it mean a diameter of 65mm + 0.002 (ie 0.001 each side)?

Pardon my ignorance but I'm not entirely familiar with the terminology.

Thanks

[Elan]

65mm + the total gap, which you are referring to as .0010.  not each side.

I would have just said 65mm plus total gap of .0010, but as you may have noticed, different people will chime in on their prefferred gap size

I did .0008 on the outside pistons and .0010 on the inside pistons.  The machinist reccomended the bigger gap on the inside ones because those cylinders run hotter, and thus expand slightly more. wierd I know. But the guy had been doing it since the 70's and swore by it, and I honestly didnt really care that much.  Runs great. I even have an f head on K cylinders so I get lower compression, but everything seems to work nicely, and it gives the fastest accelleration ive even sat on

So for these 65mm pistons,  gap of 0.0010 = Measured bore diameter of 65mm + 0.001" or does it mean a diameter of 65mm + 0.002 (ie 0.001 each side)?

Pardon my ignorance but I'm not entirely familiar with the terminology.

Thanks

[liPPy]

Got it. Thanks for the prompt reply!

65mm + the total gap, which you are referring to as .0010.  not each side.

I would have just said 65mm plus total gap of .0010, but as you may have noticed, different people will chime in on their prefferred gap size

I did .0008 on the outside pistons and .0010 on the inside pistons.  The machinist reccomended the bigger gap on the inside ones because those cylinders run hotter, and thus expand slightly more. wierd I know. But the guy had been doing it since the 70's and swore by it, and I honestly didnt really care that much.  Runs great. I even have an f head on K cylinders so I get lower compression, but everything seems to work nicely, and it gives the fastest accelleration ive even sat on

So for these 65mm pistons,  gap of 0.0010 = Measured bore diameter of 65mm + 0.001" or does it mean a diameter of 65mm + 0.002 (ie 0.001 each side)?

Pardon my ignorance but I'm not entirely familiar with the terminology.

Thanks

[Terry in Australia]

I did .0008 on the outside pistons and .0010 on the inside pistons.  The machinist reccomended the bigger gap on the inside ones because those cylinders run hotter, and thus expand slightly more. wierd I know. But the guy had been doing it since the 70's and swore by it, and I honestly didnt really care that much.  Runs great. I even have an f head on K cylinders so I get lower compression, but everything seems to work nicely, and it gives the fastest accelleration ive even sat on

.
Is it an "F" head or an "F2" head mate? If it's an F head you won't lose any compression, if it's an F2 (or F3) head you will lose a fair bit of compression, and it'll leak oil. Cheers, Terry.