Author Topic: Cheap 836 kits back on ebay...$110! *Update! (Read 110434 times)

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #300 on:** October 12, 2013, 04:16:07 AM »

Quote from: HondaMan on October 11, 2013, 07:33:39 PM

Quote from: Terry in Australia on October 04, 2013, 07:15:06 PM
Here are my eBay pistons installed and ready for the head to be bolted back on. They're a snug fit compared to the RC's that came out of my engine, so hopefully my engine will be a lot quieter this time around! Cheers, Terry.

Hey, Terry: is that the top end I sent to you about 3 years back?

I was just about to use that beautiful cam you sent me about that time, when I discovered it was a K6/F0 cam (!). I had long thought it was a K5, for some reason? The intake timing is the 5-degrees-later version, so it went back into my 'spares' box.

I got a good K4 cam (5-35 timing) and a slotted sprocket to make up another 3+ degrees on top of that, instead. I'm getting lazier as I get older, and suspect that I won't spend so much time above 110 MPH anymore, so I'll put the torque down where the speed limits are, around here.

G'Day Mark, how are you mate? 3 years? Ha ha, your memory is about as bad as mine mate, it was at least 5 years ago we did that horse trading! But no, it's not the same top end, Mike Reick built the head for me, and the cylinder block was bought locally. The bottom end is stock K6, I think I sent you the top end? (I really can't remember) I don't remember where the cam came from (I suspect it was with a pile of parts I was given by a mate here who bought a trailer load of engine parts around 10 years ago) but it reminds me of my Andrews cam I had in my first K1, tons of torque and plenty of top end too! Cheers, Terry.

scharny61 · « **Reply #301 on:** October 12, 2013, 02:48:14 PM »

Thanks Terry and others. I can go ahead with the rebuild now with some confidence.
Cheers
Mark

danfr · « **Reply #302 on:** December 01, 2013, 02:23:40 PM »

I'm having trouble finding piston ring gap specs. I understand Mark (Hondaman) recommended 0.002-0.003" more than stock. The trouble is, I cannot find a stock spec. I can only find the service limits.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks
Dan

bjbuchanan · « **Reply #303 on:** December 01, 2013, 03:42:57 PM »

Best I came up after dredging old threads was around .012. Idea is .003-.004 for every inch of bore

The larger gaps are for forged pistons, these are cast so you can run tighter which nets the .012 or so

I would suggest you post a new thread if you want a real answer, this thread is too large

danfr · « **Reply #304 on:** December 01, 2013, 04:02:40 PM »

The bore is 64mm which is 2.5187". 0.003-0.004" per inch would be 0.0075-0.0100. Sounds a little tight. 0.012" ring gap sound about right. I believe there are quite a few people subscribed to this thread, so I'll hold out until someone chimes in with more information.

Cheers

Don R · « **Reply #305 on:** December 01, 2013, 05:15:05 PM »

I used .012 on mine so far, so good. My machine shop did a great job on the clearances, all the ring gaps were very close.

bjbuchanan · « **Reply #306 on:** December 01, 2013, 05:55:17 PM »

Quote from: danfr on December 01, 2013, 04:02:40 PM

The bore is 64mm which is 2.5187". 0.003-0.004" per inch would be 0.0075-0.0100. Sounds a little tight. 0.012" ring gap sound about right. I believe there are quite a few people subscribed to this thread, so I'll hold out until someone chimes in with more information.

Cheers

65mm

AJK · « **Reply #307 on:** December 02, 2013, 02:54:14 AM »

Everything below is for a std bore ring end gap, just as a reference point.

The original service limit clearances (from the honda manual - std bore) is stated as:
Top & 2nd ring: 0.0276" (0.7mm)
Oil Ring: 0.0276" (0.7mm)

so the same for all rings. This was on page 45 of the shop manual.

I reused my original std pistons with another cylinder that had little use and was in great shape & I had a ring end gap of 11 thou.

scharny61 · « **Reply #308 on:** January 04, 2014, 09:12:24 PM »

I've now done 700 km on the cheap piston set - all good so far. I had the shop bore the clearance to 'Hondamans' spec and very happy.

Garage_guy_chris · « **Reply #309 on:** January 06, 2014, 11:32:12 AM »

Well im joining this club too, I ordered a set of these to repair my scoured up yosh 812 top end. I also ordered some of the other Cruzinimage products for the bike.

I still need to buy some HD studs as 2 of my originals have rust pitting. It appears our options are the APE HD studs or the CycleX kibblewhite studs with or without the nuts.

the other thing is the cam, i have a "R1" cam that appears to be an "F" cam but i dont know what year its from its only about 200deg duration @ .040" lift (I should start a thread on it) My other options would be:
-DP117KHD
-Webcam #41 or #41A
-Megacycle 125-00 > would prefer a billet cam.

Anyone have any input on these cams with the ebay836 kits?

Don R · « **Reply #310 on:** January 06, 2014, 11:48:30 AM »

I ran an F2 cam with my 836 kit, it was very torquey for a sohc4. I missed a shift and bent a valve so I added a little clearance with a shim under the cylinder, APE springs and retainers and a Kenny Harmon F grind cam. So far I love it but haven't ridden it much since getting it back together. I'm thinking it likes RPM a bit more now.

Garage_guy_chris · « **Reply #311 on:** January 10, 2014, 11:14:41 PM »

Well my pistons arrived on Wednesday along with some other goodies and everything looks really good, they also came really fast 5 days from Japan to Toronto Canada.

I went through this whole thread tonight to extract all the important info regarding clearances so i can get the cylinders bored. While doing it I noticed this post by Terry in australia and have noticed i have a cam with the same markings along with a "R1" stamp. I believe it is a 1978 F2 cam it specs at :
intake: .312 and about 200deg duration @.040"
exhaust: .290 and about 200deg duration @.040"

It sounds like a few people are using these F2 cams and Im thinking im gonna try it too. maybe people that are using them can elaborate on the power curve and any installation issues. One other thread suggested a F2 cam sprocket is required to time it properly?

Quote from: Terry in Australia on October 05, 2013, 02:24:48 AM

, I've removed my Megacycle 125/75 cam and installed a "Mystery" cam that has about 1mm more lift than an F2 cam, and a lot more duration, but that's still 2mm less lift then the Megacycle, so there shouldn't be any "valve kissing" issues, either. (hopefully) Cheers, Terry.

Here's the "Mystery" cam, see the raised blocks cast in just next to the tach gear. Ever seen one like this?

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #312 on:** January 10, 2014, 11:31:58 PM »

Quote from: Garage_guy_chris on January 10, 2014, 11:14:41 PM

Well my pistons arrived on Wednesday along with some other goodies and everything looks really good, they also came really fast 5 days from Japan to Toronto Canada.

I went through this whole thread tonight to extract all the important info regarding clearances so i can get the cylinders bored. While doing it I noticed this post by Terry in australia and have noticed i have a cam with the same markings along with a "R1" stamp. I believe it is a 1978 F2 cam it specs at :
intake: .312 and about 200deg duration @.040"
exhaust: .290 and about 200deg duration @.040"

It sounds like a few people are using these F2 cams and Im thinking im gonna try it too. maybe people that are using them can elaborate on the power curve and any installation issues. One other thread suggested a F2 cam sprocket is required to time it properly?

Quote from: Terry in Australia on October 05, 2013, 02:24:48 AM
, I've removed my Megacycle 125/75 cam and installed a "Mystery" cam that has about 1mm more lift than an F2 cam, and a lot more duration, but that's still 2mm less lift then the Megacycle, so there shouldn't be any "valve kissing" issues, either. (hopefully) Cheers, Terry.

Here's the "Mystery" cam, see the raised blocks cast in just next to the tach gear. Ever seen one like this?

G'Day Mate, mine's an aftermarket cam of unknown origin, the grind is more like an early K cam, but with about 1mm more lift than an F2 cam. Cheers, Terry.

stikman · « **Reply #313 on:** May 01, 2014, 06:13:04 PM »

I've purchased a few items from cruzinimage_co on ebay. I am pretty happy with how his 836 kit looks, but I just went to gap the rings and one top ring came with a much larger gap than the rest. I tried it in all cylinders and it's about 0.019" to 0.020". I wanted to gap them all to about 0.010" but most of them are around 0.012". I can make do with 12 thou, but 20 thou is just too much. I tried contacting him, but haven't received a reply.

Just a heads up for anyone looking at this kit. Seems pretty decent otherwise.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #314 on:** May 01, 2014, 08:09:10 PM »

perhaps I don't understand but are you talking about ring end gap? That would be a function of the cylinder diameter would it not? Or are you saying you had one bad ring?

stikman · « **Reply #315 on:** May 01, 2014, 11:12:26 PM »

Cyl diameter will affect ring end gap somewhat, yes. But as I said, I checked the gap of this ring in all 4 cylinders and it was 19-20 thou in all of them. Seeing as the gap on the rest of the rings was between 9 and 12 thou right out of the kit, this one top ring is certainly "bad" and not useable as is.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #316 on:** May 02, 2014, 12:19:32 AM »

While 19-20 thou is too much for a new ring, 28 thou is the wear limit, so it's still useable, in a pinch. Cheers, Terry.

PeWe · « **Reply #317 on:** May 02, 2014, 02:44:43 PM »

Quote from: stikman on May 01, 2014, 06:13:04 PM

I've purchased a few items from cruzinimage_co on ebay. I am pretty happy with how his 836 kit looks, but I just went to gap the rings and one top ring came with a much larger gap than the rest. I tried it in all cylinders and it's about 0.019" to 0.020". I wanted to gap them all to about 0.010" but most of them are around 0.012". I can make do with 12 thou, but 20 thou is just too much. I tried contacting him, but haven't received a reply.

Just a heads up for anyone looking at this kit. Seems pretty decent otherwise.

Checked cylinder diameter in all 4? They can be worn, too big.
My experience is that rings must be slightly grinded to get proper gap, too narrow when new.

stikman · « **Reply #318 on:** May 02, 2014, 03:30:11 PM »

As I said before, I tried this top ring in all 4 cylinders and it gaps at about 0.020", about 10 thou more gap than the rest. Unless these are meant to be pre-gapped, they should come with less gap than required so that they are able to be ground larger. That's what I'd hoped for.

As for my cylinders, they were bored for 0.0009" piston to cylinder wall clearance, so they are not too large by any means.

Now I'm stuck trying to find someone with a spare 836 top ring. Pretty frustrating.

Roach Carver · « **Reply #319 on:** May 02, 2014, 04:24:49 PM »

I understand. Don't know why everyone else is missing what you are saying. Guess that happens once in a while on bargain parts. Good luck on your search.

HondaMan · « **Reply #320 on:** May 02, 2014, 04:59:30 PM »

Cruisinimage sells just the rings on eBay, I bought a set a while back to rebuild one that a local rider messed up. They came faster than the whole piston kits do, too.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #321 on:** May 02, 2014, 05:28:03 PM »

Yep, same here Mark, I bought a set of rings from him, hoping that I could use them on my old RC pistons, and they were cheap. The seller, Mitsuo, is a good bloke, so I'm sure he'd have no problem replacing Stikman's dodgy ring. Cheers, Terry.

stikman · « **Reply #322 on:** May 02, 2014, 08:33:29 PM »

Nice, I didn't realize he sells just the rings sets as well. He doesn't have any for sale at the moment, but I found someone in a cb750 facebook group who had some spares from a set of rings he purchased from cruzinimage. He's going to sell me a single set.

I'm sure Mitsuo would have been willing to work it out with me, but ebay's contact system wasn't allowing me to send him a message. I didn't mean to come across like I was bashing him. I've purchased a few different items from his ebay store, great products and prices. Just a heads up to anyone thinking of buying this kit is all.

Thanks alot for the info and help guys!

malcolmgb · « **Reply #323 on:** May 12, 2014, 06:55:57 PM »

The eBay message system allows you to ask a question on any item a member is selling, just use that to ask a question about anything, I have done this to ask a seller to list an item they regularly sell but haven't got a listing at that time.

atm cycles · « **Reply #324 on:** May 13, 2014, 02:30:09 PM »

Well just ordered two. Well see

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Author Topic: Cheap 836 kits back on ebay...$110! *Update! (Read 110434 times)

AJK