Topic: Couple of shots of my buddies CB750 builds. Yep there's two of them.

[greenjeans]

Jeees.....

Hey PJ, maybe I would like to see some of your "work" so I could pick it apart...but my momma always said "if you don't have nothing nice to say..." 

You guys know that they weren't built to be race bikes don't ya ??   This is just one guys' take on the cafe craze.    There's always a better option for whatever part you choose to pick on - always.

I can only really agree with you on 1 thing - the lack of fork brace.  That issue is being addressed.  As far as calling it dangerous...   You haven't seen it or looked at it closely.  I can guarantee you that it tracks straighter than many of the bikes that came off the assembly line.  It stops - very well.   There isn't anything half-assed on that bike - even down to the fasteners.  Granted, it ain't everyone's cup of tea, and I could never spend that much on a bike, but there are customers out there who can. 

I like 'em - but that's just me.  flame away.

[MCRider]

With the forks choked up like that, there's no need for a fork brace. maybe a neck brace.     

When the tops of the fork legs hit the bottom of the triple tree, there'll be some heck to pay. And a nasty tankslapper likely to develop.

Keep it on a smooth road.   

[Dyrden]

With the forks choked up like that, there's no need for a fork brace. maybe a neck brace.     

When the tops of the fork legs hit the bottom of the triple tree, there'll be some heck to pay. And a nasty tankslapper likely to develop.

Hopefully, and likely, theyve already thought of that and internally reduced the travel by installing some spacers under the top of the damping rod.

Keep it on a smooth road.   

[MCRider]

With the forks choked up like that, there's no need for a fork brace. maybe a neck brace.     

When the tops of the fork legs hit the bottom of the triple tree, there'll be some heck to pay. And a nasty tankslapper likely to develop.

Hopefully, and likely, theyve already thought of that and internally reduced the travel by installing some spacers under the top of the damping rod.

Keep it on a smooth road.   

If so, then rather than bottoming out on the lower bridge, they'll simply bottom out on themselves. This does not improve the situation but likely worsens it. Anything that reduces front end travel below respected levels of 4+ inches is flirting with disaster, IMO.

[paulages]

With the forks choked up like that, there's no need for a fork brace. maybe a neck brace.     

When the tops of the fork legs hit the bottom of the triple tree, there'll be some heck to pay. And a nasty tankslapper likely to develop.

Hopefully, and likely, theyve already thought of that and internally reduced the travel by installing some spacers under the top of the damping rod.

Keep it on a smooth road.   

External or internal, those forks are gonna bottom out really fast, with the same result! Personally, I don't understand how modeling an old bike after a modern crotch rocket makes it "cafe," but that's neither here nor there...


You know what they say: "opinions are like #$%*s. We all have them , and they all stink."

[crazypj]

Jeees.....

Hey PJ, maybe I would like to see some of your "work" so I could pick it apart...but my momma always said "if you don't have nothing nice to say..." 

You guys know that they weren't built to be race bikes don't ya ??

I can only really agree with you on 1 thing - the lack of fork brace.  That issue is being addressed.  As far as calling it dangerous...   You haven't seen it or looked at it closely.  I can guarantee you that it tracks straighter than many of the bikes that came off the assembly line.  It stops - very well.   There isn't anything half-assed on that bike

I like 'em - but that's just me.  flame away.

OK
 Here's link to CB360's (actually 378cc, I'm a 'motor' guy)
http://www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=11736.0
It's on here as well but I haven't updated for awhile
Pick away.
 I'm building 4 of them eventually, the 'finished' one was done in less than 2 weeks, every night for a couple of hours after work.
It still needs tidying up, brake operating arm is being re-machined as is the linkage which I know is ugly (but functional  )
I made quite a lot of 'one off' parts
There are also a couple of vids of me riding it

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=30210.50
Page 3

I don't need to see it in person, I've ridden more than enough CB750's to know it won't go round corners without front end twisting.
 Has it been flat out in a straight line?
I'm guessing probably not?
The entire concept of a cafe race is to make a 'race' bike out of a street bike 
 Here's me around 1980 on Rickman CB750

[crazypj]

Hmm, no 'picking' yet 
 BTW,
Don't remember if that bike had Betor or Ceriani forks, both are known to be far superior to stock, but, they twisted slightly when 'pushing it'

[jaguar]

LOVE the old lego man helmet

[Syscrush]

Hmm, no 'picking' yet 

They're boring as sh!t with good craftsmanship but dime-a-dozen looks and old tech.  They're slow with low power, crappy brakes, and skinny tires.  They would get creamed on the track by a modern sportbike with a competent rider, and they look uncomfortable for riding an IBA rally.

The thing is, NO build is EVER beyond reproach, because nothing can be all things to everyone.

[crazypj]

Hmm, no 'picking' yet 

They're boring as sh!t with good craftsmanship but dime-a-dozen looks and old tech.  They're slow with low power, crappy brakes, and skinny tires.  They would get creamed on the track by a modern sportbike with a competent rider, and they look uncomfortable for riding an IBA rally.

The thing is, NO build is EVER beyond reproach, because nothing can be all things to everyone.

At least someone has a comment
Looks uncomfortable but is surprisingly nice to ride.
 I haven't done more than 110 miles in one go though.
 Still no real criticism though, just a generalisation of CB360's, need to pick on specific items.
Of course, the complete bike probably didn't cost as much as rear hub on the Fuller 750 

 I would expect a squid on a modern 600 to annihilate it on a track, it's only got about 40bhp

[greenjeans]

Hey PJ - Guess you called my bluff.   I'm usually not one to criticize other peoples stuff unless specifically asked.  I guess I spent way too much time in art school critiques listening to the mindless babble of people trying either to justify their crap or tear down the work of others.   I came to the conclusion long ago that I gravitate to what I like visually.  Don't care how I get there.   I can appreciate the craftsmanship of others even if it's not my particular style.  I don't have to like it.  You don't have to like it.   

That bike is just one guys' take on the cafe craze.   Wasn't made to be the end-all of the cafe-styling craze or the best race bike ever.   It's a fun bike as the current owner can attest to.    I haven't got to ride it yet, but I will get to give it a few laps at the Barber Vintage Festival this year.  I'll let you know how it does when compared to my bikes. (99% stockers)

I'm sure you could bottom out the forks but, the bike is more than 100lbs lighter than the original and the new owner is a feather - only about 150lbs...  There's still 3.5" of travel there.   

BTW - That's a really nice fork brace you made in that long-ass thread.   I also love the headlight mounts yo made.  Selling any ?  I need a fork brace for my winter project.   Looks like some fun bikes, which in my book, makes them good enough for me.

[crazypj]

Doh, still no criticism 
 I want to know what I'm doing wrong, I know what I'm doing right   
Thanks for the comments though
 'Brian Fullers' CB750 needs a fork brace, not because forks bottom out, but because the front axle isn't large enough diameter to prevent forks twisting.
Try this.
Stand in front of bike and hold onto bars.
Grip front tyre between knees and heels/ankles
Try twisting bars left/right while holding wheel stationary.
It moves (even if your not very strong)
 Under normal riding conditions the wheel can twist about an inch or so, leads to weaving and scary riding the centrifugal loading makes bike want to go straight, even if you countersteer
(maybe Barber is really smooth? Maybe they didn't corner very hard?)
 I watched most of Cafe Racer last night
You could see by his face that the original owner wasn't happy, no matter what he said.
The exhaust looks a lot better when the bike is parked, you can see it's a toe toaster when being ridden.
 Did Fuller have his foot down on the end section or does it really have that little ground clearance?
 I've been thinking of making more headlight 'ears', along with various other things, (I may have to start doing this if I can't get a job soon)
Not sure how long they take to make them as I do each piece individually although once boring head is set for fork diameter it make's things go a lot quicker
Don't know what to charge or really, how much someone is willing to pay.
 The fork brace is probably $250.00 in machining, about 10 hrs of my time plus materials
 

[greenjeans]

The original owner probably isn't the happiest, but it's the end customer that counts.  He is very happy - his wife isn't 

Dudes with smaller feet can ride that bike easily -  It's set up for the new owner.  The exhausts turn down - he hasn't mentioned any foot cookin'

Now the original owner - that's another story.  He's a mountain of a man.   Surprised he could get his size 15 boots in there to shift it.  Not sure if it's TV angels or smaller diameter wheels, but there is a good amount of clearance - I'd say 6 inches at least.  You can lean it over until it hits the engine cases.    Everybody was being a bit gentle with it - it's a brand new and pretty pricey toy.


I'm serious about those headlight ears.  Figure out a price, I bet you could sell several sets on this site.   

[jaguar]

Just watched the 3rd show

Why did they go to a race track to putt around?

First pointing the exhaust at the riders toes is dumb
Second it's amazing how little you can lean that thing before things start hitting the ground

I know that you said he lied but still messed up to joke about the tank....

And I don't think bikes built for a buyer should be on the show at all.

[crazypj]

From the pictures, it looks like line through axles is above crankshaft center line?
 If you look at the Rickman picture line through axles has crankshaft center line about an inch higher.
On the Rickman, it was pretty easy to put the alternator side on the floor when cornering.
 Ergo, lower engine placement means lot less ground clearance (at least on left side)
I have to agree with Jaguar, bikes built to commission shouldn't be on the show.
 I'm sure it would have been totally different creation if Mr. Fuller had to pay for everything then try and sell it
 

[Tanqueracer]

Just watched the 3rd show

Why did they go to a race track to putt around?

First pointing the exhaust at the riders toes is dumb
Second it's amazing how little you can lean that thing before things start hitting the ground

I know that you said he lied but still messed up to joke about the tank....

And I don't think bikes built for a buyer should be on the show at all.

They were there to film the bike only, and probably only allowed to use a small portion of the track. At a cost of approx 35-40 thousand $ to rent that track for a weekend, plus corner workers, wreckers and other safety people it's cost prohibitive for what they were doing. Do you really think they're gonna turn a bunch of guys with a custom bike loose on the whole track with no safety workers in place and let them run wide open? The liability would be enormous. Ain't never gonna happen.
Even if you want to rent Little Talledega nowadays it's a 10K$ proposition.

I've driven Barber in earnest and yes it is very smooth. Best suited to small bore cars and bikes but very smooth none the less.

[jaguar]

Ok JP...

Im not digging to far through the DTT thread....hate that they run like 3 comments to a page....must be to make people feel better....

but few questions.
Why are those cheapo shocks mounted backwards?  or an i just looking at things wrong?
how did those shocks really work out for you?  seem to remember it was alot of fab work that is over the head of the average guy to make them useable so it begs the question why not just buy $200 shocks in the first place?  I think they were alot cheaper when you bought them but now they are almost $100...

Looks like you are still running the stock drum?  any plans for a larger one?
can you build a dual disc off a G bike in the same way that you can on a 750?

40whp?  wow....kinda want to ride that....lol

[Paul_Dai]

Very cool looking bikes, ..........Awesome! Love the lines and the detailing.

[crazypj]

Ok PJ...
but few questions.
Why are those cheapo shocks mounted backwards?  or an i just looking at things wrong?
how did those shocks really work out for you?  seem to remember it was a lot of fab work that is over the head of the average guy to make them useable so it begs the question why not just buy $200 shocks in the first place?  I think they were a lot cheaper when you bought them but now they are almost $100...

Looks like you are still running the stock drum?  any plans for a larger one?
can you build a dual disc off a G bike in the same way that you can on a 750?

40whp?  wow....kinda want to ride that....lol

OK,
greenjeans, sorry for the threadjack

Yeah, I started too many bikes.
 DTT tends to run on a bit, as do I
I already deleted a bunch of totally unnecessary posts I made or it would be running several extra pages 

I completely re-built and modified the cheapo shocks
Basically wanted to see how difficult it was.
 If I bought expensive ones I would have been very loathe to strip them down.
 They were not the cheapest ones, they cost about $180.00.
 I know whats inside them, they don't care about /back/front/upside down
Gas chamber is in front, just because 
They actually work incredibly well. (even better than expected) 

 No need for a larger drum brake on the rear.
The stock drum is more than adequate for a street driven bike, particularly as it's going to be closer to 220lbs than 350lbs
 It isn't possible to fit dual disc to 350/360/350f/400f (unless you mount right side 'backwards)
The hub is drilled through, mounting disc isn't a problem but it looks weird
 The 'quick build' red one actually has a lot of 'custom' one off parts (exhaust, handlebars, LED mount, LED turn signal indicators in top yoke shocks, battery box,rectifier/regulator, speedo mount, ported, modified carbs, 2mm overbore =378cc, Stainless braided brake line-made it up from parts)
I'm mainly testing idea's for 'later' 
 It is a LOT of fun to ride, and, as I mentioned, much more comfortable than anyone expects.
 If I can make it to Barber, I'll bring it along (I really should get on with the 'nice' one though

[jaguar]

ment larger front brake


you had that crazy cut rear hub right?

[Syscrush]

Here's the thing PJ: You do very good work but you're being a jerk about these bikes.  You don't have to like them but it seems like you're criticizing them for not being the kind of bike you'd build.

[J.Webster Designs]

this thread is WAY off topic... its quite amazing that people can be so ignorant.

all i hear in this thread is that PJ is jealous of the fact that fuller has more fabrication and design abilities in his pinky than PJ does in his whole body... PJ, I went through your thread... all i see is an extremely long thread on a mediocre build. its probably fun for you to ride that bike, and i bet you are happy... The new owner of fullers bike is probably VERY proud of his bike, and has a blast riding it just like you... to me... that is mission accomplished on fullers part. A person paid him to build a motorcycle that they would be proud to ride and enjoy it... he did it plain and simple... I highly doubt that the new owner of that bike will ever ride it any where near the limit. The bike has plenty enough ground clearance for general cruising... take a look at a bobber or a chopper sometime... WAY less ground clearance than that bike and people are still happy and enjoying them... No one cares about your "safety history"... it just makes you sound like a douche bag trying to say that your penis is bigger than someone else...

If you don't like the way the bike turned out, say your peace and move on. Better yet, just say it to yourself and move on without posting a bunch of retardedness on the internet.

Greenjeans... Fuller is a cool guy... spent a couple days up there at his shop doing a metal fab shop with Ron Covell... the guys at the shop are real cool too. we usually spend some time with them when they come down for the PRI show in Orlando. Next time I am up that way, we should all get together and go grab some drinks...

[jaguar]

I thought we all dropped this and were going to talk about Pie and Beer

This isnt an argument about whos dick is bigger or what someone can or cant build.
this started when people that KNOW alot about bikes and making them work well were commenting on a style bike that will not work as a bike.  that is all.

Yes it took skill to build that fuller bike, not some crazy unimaginable amount though.  fuller is not fab god.

Lots of people like poser bikes and enjoy looking at them and building them.  its fine.
others want a bike that actually is better then the bike that they started with and thats fine too.

neither group is going to like the others bikes or understand the people that build them.

This is getting old

[Geeto67]

For the record.....nearly every bike built on the show is built under commission. The shops don't get paid to be TV stars so they have to find a way to make it work for them.

I have no problem with bikes built for commission. With half the shops crTV features the builders don't have any better idea what works than the customer.

There are exceptions though: Hugh,Kenny, union garage, dan rose, etc.....but I happen to know all those guys actually race motorcycles. The show doesn't know how to differentiate them from those dudes who almost killed a Bostrom bro, or the guy who built a cx500 by throwing a bunch of bolt ons at it, or Santiago choppers, or even fuller. They are all being given the same credibility which is bollocks.

If I were going to build a go fast norton, my first call would be to Kenny, not fuller. It isn't a slight against fuller, I just don't see him in the pits at mid-o sweating his balls off wrenching on race bikes.

You know what would have been more appropriate? Fuller taking the bike to the grand national roadster show or some other congregation of lead sleds and no go showboat rolling art pieces. '49 mercs are ever bit hot rods and nobody expects them to go fast, usually they rack up credibility on artistic merit. Let fuller's cb750 rack up all the art and craftsmanship credit it deserves, instead of trying to pretend it's a race bike for the street.

[crazypj]

this thread is WAY off topic... its quite amazing that people can be so ignorant.

all i hear in this thread is that PJ is jealous of the fact that fuller has more fabrication and design abilities in his pinky than PJ does in his whole body... PJ, I went through your thread... all i see is an extremely long thread on a mediocre build. its probably fun for you to ride that bike, and i bet you are happy... The new owner of fullers bike is probably VERY proud of his bike, and has a blast riding it just like you... to me... that is mission accomplished on fullers part. A person paid him to build a motorcycle that they would be proud to ride and enjoy it... he did it plain and simple... I highly doubt that the new owner of that bike will ever ride it any where near the limit. The bike has plenty enough ground clearance for general cruising... take a look at a bobber or a chopper sometime... WAY less ground clearance than that bike and people are still happy and enjoying them... No one cares about your "safety history"... it just makes you sound like a douche bag trying to say that your penis is bigger than someone else...

If you don't like the way the bike turned out, say your peace and move on. Better yet, just say it to yourself and move on without posting a bunch of retardedness on the internet.

Greenjeans... Fuller is a cool guy... spent a couple days up there at his shop doing a metal fab shop with Ron Covell... the guys at the shop are real cool too. we usually spend some time with them when they come down for the PRI show in Orlando. Next time I am up that way, we should all get together and go grab some drinks...

 Nope, I have a very specific point.
 Fuller didn't make bike as safe as it should have been, he just spent a lot of money so retards like you would like it without knowing the first thing about safety.
 How many people have you scraped off the street because they thought they knew what they were doing?
How many funerals have you been to from bad bike builds?
I still don't see any real criticism of my bikes, you don't like it because it's a 360, who has penis envy now? (big bike little dick)
Everything is bigger in Teaxs, even have bigger dickheads
 It's purporting to be a cafe not a bobber, your comparing apple to alligators
 I have no doubt in my mind that if it was a 750 or larger with a $3,000 paint job, it would be swooning fantastic, no matter what the reality is.
 BTW, I'm OK with the 360, but not as happy as I could be, that's why I have another 2 on the go