Author Topic: Pods: I surrender!  (Read 5033 times)

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Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2011, 06:11:43 PM »
The pod issues seem to apply mostly to the smaller bikes than the 750's
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2011, 06:31:53 PM »
I tuned it up, got it running good, then pulled that box and the carbs off, put 120 mains in em, put pods on, and never looked back. It runs great...and I know what it ran like BP (before pods) and.... it is unquestionably better now! The PO thought so too after a test ride when I got it done.

The problem is that we can't verify the subjective opinion.

1 - pods aren't a specification, they are a style.  They vary in operational specification among manufacturers.  A Honda runs well, a Harley  runs well, therefore a Honda is the same as a Harley?  Most would agree that's not so, I think.

2- Your "test case example" is not "a bike tuned to factory specs" vs one with a pods change. (How do you know it ran as well as showroom stock before the change?)

3- Your assertion implies that all anyone need to do is put anything with a "pods" label on the bike and it absolutely must improve the bike in every way, based purely on your testimonial example of just one unbounded "test case".  But, the only quantifiable supportive data is the MPG number, and I've seen reports of owners with stock bikes claim higher numbers.

No flat spots, no hesitation, wind doesn't seem to bother it, and it's got GUTS!!! It's my daily transport on a 100 mile a day round trip, I got no complaints at 45 MPG, and it looks good  8)

The operational performance of a bike is often tested and there are magazine reports that quantify the testing and provide numbers for things like 0-60 times, 1/4 miles times, HP curves, etc.  That is quantifiable, measurable, often repeatable data.

As a parallel, drugs are tested double blind, so that neither the tester or the subject know which pill is placebo and which is a real compound.

When you change your bike, you have expectations of improved performance.  If the bike "sounds" faster, the rider believe it is faster.  It may be, or it may just be louder.  Pods are certainly less effective at intake noise reduction than the stock induction.
It is human nature to desire reward for effort.  We are always expecting a benefit for the changes we make to our machines.  That expectation can lead to perception that is really not there in reality.

If there were no performance benchmarks before a modification, how to you tell or convince others that what you did was the true cause of what you perceive to be a benefit.  In engineering, the numbers speak for themselves.  Opinions or hearsay means nothing, and is never offered as a "proof" that change A or B is better under the same conditions and the original unmodified unit.

If you indeed improved the machine, then measurable data will prove it so, as in your MPG number offered (what was it before "pods"?), there are other "performance quantifications" that will prove it beyond a human "butt dyno's" ability.

That is why the debate continues.  I've yet to see proof that ANY pods actually make a demonstrable improvement in performance.  There have been many opinions offered.  Many are style orientated.  But, none offered so far compare the stock engine with stock induction, to a stock engine with modified induction, using objective, quantifiable before and after performance numbers.

Most of the arguments hinge on the "pods make me feel better about the machine" orientation.  An argument that can have a wide range of meaning dependent on the blood alcohol level of the debater, (or other, more normal, state-of-mind factors).  Just how does anyone quantify a bike with "guts"?  Do you really think the original bike sold so well because it lacked "guts"?  How is "guts" a definitive term?

I can appreciate that you are happy with your bike.  And, that is fine with me.  But, how can anyone state that any bike with "pods" must automatically be superior to one without such, having never used comparative, measurable data?

I can't argue with a "style" preference.  But, if you are to claim any "performance benefit", that is an argument requiring quantifiable, measurable data rather than just boasts and feelings.

I'm not trying to beat anybody up.  Just looking for the facts.  In theory, a well designed pod type filter should allow higher chamber oxygen contents than the stock induction at very high inlet velocities, such as at or above red line RPMs.  I do not believe they have any benefit below those high operational ranges.  And, I've seen no proof otherwise that has ever been offered contrary to that theory.  Since a street bike seldom operates at or above red line, it's street operational benefits are quite limited, even if the carbs have been perfectly readjusted to accommodate ideal pods.

Does that explain my position clearly?  (No prejudice, intended.)

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline MCRider

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2011, 06:50:17 PM »
The pod issues seem to apply mostly to the smaller bikes than the 750's
That's my experience/observation.
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2011, 07:11:13 PM »
I tuned it up, got it running good, then pulled that box and the carbs off, put 120 mains in em, put pods on, and never looked back. It runs great...and I know what it ran like BP (before pods) and.... it is unquestionably better now! The PO thought so too after a test ride when I got it done.

The problem is that we can't verify the subjective opinion.

1 - pods aren't a specification, they are a style.  They vary in operational specification among manufacturers.  A Honda runs well, a Harley  runs well, therefore a Honda is the same as a Harley?  Most would agree that's not so, I think.

2- Your "test case example" is not "a bike tuned to factory specs" vs one with a pods change. (How do you know it ran as well as showroom stock before the change?)

3- Your assertion implies that all anyone need to do is put anything with a "pods" label on the bike and it absolutely must improve the bike in every way, based purely on your testimonial example of just one unbounded "test case".  But, the only quantifiable supportive data is the MPG number, and I've seen reports of owners with stock bikes claim higher numbers.

No flat spots, no hesitation, wind doesn't seem to bother it, and it's got GUTS!!! It's my daily transport on a 100 mile a day round trip, I got no complaints at 45 MPG, and it looks good  8)

The operational performance of a bike is often tested and there are magazine reports that quantify the testing and provide numbers for things like 0-60 times, 1/4 miles times, HP curves, etc.  That is quantifiable, measurable, often repeatable data.

As a parallel, drugs are tested double blind, so that neither the tester or the subject know which pill is placebo and which is a real compound.

When you change your bike, you have expectations of improved performance.  If the bike "sounds" faster, the rider believe it is faster.  It may be, or it may just be louder.  Pods are certainly less effective at intake noise reduction than the stock induction.
It is human nature to desire reward for effort.  We are always expecting a benefit for the changes we make to our machines.  That expectation can lead to perception that is really not there in reality.

If there were no performance benchmarks before a modification, how to you tell or convince others that what you did was the true cause of what you perceive to be a benefit.  In engineering, the numbers speak for themselves.  Opinions or hearsay means nothing, and is never offered as a "proof" that change A or B is better under the same conditions and the original unmodified unit.

If you indeed improved the machine, then measurable data will prove it so, as in your MPG number offered (what was it before "pods"?), there are other "performance quantifications" that will prove it beyond a human "butt dyno's" ability.

That is why the debate continues.  I've yet to see proof that ANY pods actually make a demonstrable improvement in performance.  There have been many opinions offered.  Many are style orientated.  But, none offered so far compare the stock engine with stock induction, to a stock engine with modified induction, using objective, quantifiable before and after performance numbers.

Most of the arguments hinge on the "pods make me feel better about the machine" orientation.  An argument that can have a wide range of meaning dependent on the blood alcohol level of the debater, (or other, more normal, state-of-mind factors).  Just how does anyone quantify a bike with "guts"?  Do you really think the original bike sold so well because it lacked "guts"?  How is "guts" a definitive term?

I can appreciate that you are happy with your bike.  And, that is fine with me.  But, how can anyone state that any bike with "pods" must automatically be superior to one without such, having never used comparative, measurable data?

I can't argue with a "style" preference.  But, if you are to claim any "performance benefit", that is an argument requiring quantifiable, measurable data rather than just boasts and feelings.

I'm not trying to beat anybody up.  Just looking for the facts.  In theory, a well designed pod type filter should allow higher chamber oxygen contents than the stock induction at very high inlet velocities, such as at or above red line RPMs.  I do not believe they have any benefit below those high operational ranges.  And, I've seen no proof otherwise that has ever been offered contrary to that theory.  Since a street bike seldom operates at or above red line, it's street operational benefits are quite limited, even if the carbs have been perfectly readjusted to accommodate ideal pods.

Does that explain my position clearly?  (No prejudice, intended.)

Cheers,

I couldn't agree more. It is complete fantasy to say that "pods are better" as TT has so well described here. You tuned the bike up nicely then immediately pulled the airbox and put pods on so how did it run when tuned properly..? I still believe that there are piles of people on this forum that have very little understanding of a "good state of tune", i even have photo's of some of the fastest Honda 4's in Australia {read fastest in the world} and some have modified or re engineered airboxes on them, I wonder why....... ::)  If pods were gods gift to bikes running well,  why would all manufacturers spend ridiculous amounts of money on developing airboxes when they could just install pods and be done with it..?
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2011, 07:18:56 PM »
" If pods were gods gift to bikes running well,  why would all manufacturers spend ridiculous amounts of money on developing airboxes when they could just install pods and be done with it..?"

Well not wanting to get buried deep in the argument, this one can simply be answered by noise. The intake noise from Pods is too high for for EPA requirements, so they have to spend tons of money engineering the best airboxes they can knowing they can't run pods cause they are too loud. And not only for EPA, but many customers who want to tour would not put up with the noise.

Whether or not pods truly help seems to be very much a part of which bike you put them on.
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2011, 07:27:42 PM »

Well not wanting to get buried deep in the argument, this one can simply be answered by noise. The intake noise from Pods is too high for for EPA requirements, so they have to spend tons of money engineering the best airboxes they can knowing they can't run pods cause they are too loud. And not only for EPA, but many customers who want to tour would not put up with the noise.

Whether or not pods truly help seems to be very much a part of which bike you put them on.

Not all bikes have the "loud" induction "howl" with pods Ron, and some bikes do run well with pods {different carb types or injection}, also when the 750 was engineered there was no problem with noise laws {Kawasaki triples were loud and mechanically very noisy}, a good set 0f HM 300's make more noise than the pods...so do most after market {legal} pipes.....The size of the pods also changes the induction noise too so its just not that cut and dry mate..... ;)
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Offline scottly

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2011, 07:44:51 PM »
Errrr...um...my name is Burmashave, and I am considering giving up my CR's. The issue for me isn't boots. I'd need to lay my hands on carbs and an airbox. I sold my a while back . I may check the boneyard this week, but since I don't I have an airbox and carbs to match to, it may be a matter of identifying the right models.

New airbox boots can be had. I think cmsnl.com has them for my '77 750k. They may also be available from Honda dealers.

I'll swap you a rack of K7 carbs and a K7 airbox (no airbox boots) for your CR's, if you include a set of pods!
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2011, 08:04:43 PM »
Errrr...um...my name is Burmashave, and I am considering giving up my CR's. The issue for me isn't boots. I'd need to lay my hands on carbs and an airbox. I sold my a while back . I may check the boneyard this week, but since I don't I have an airbox and carbs to match to, it may be a matter of identifying the right models.

New airbox boots can be had. I think cmsnl.com has them for my '77 750k. They may also be available from Honda dealers.

I'll swap you a rack of K7 carbs and a K7 airbox (no airbox boots) for your CR's, if you include a set of pods!

To late PM already sent. LOL
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2011, 08:18:07 PM »
Have to agree (mostly), with TT & Retro.

Properly fitted pods do offer a high rpm / top end performance boost, with proper tuning.  I don't have dyno sheets TT, but lap times were down .3.  However it's the same thing you would get with nothing there.  All you've done is remove the top end restriction of the stock air box/filter.  Big deal, everything else suffers.  Of course if your racing, who cares about idle / part throttle / low throttle roll-on; but on the street those are the most important things.

Seems like every pods thread starts with moaning about idle issues, and part throttle roll-on flat spots.  To be expected of a device that is designed for 3/4 to WOT.  Some through either skill, or blind luck hit on a combination that covers over the problem(s) specific to their engine's variables; most don't.  How many $K's did Honda spend to engineer the SOHC's air box, and yet people think it can be simply swapped out for $40+, and life will be the same - NOT. ::)

I'm planning on doing a dyno run to fine tune my jetting with my foam filter & stacks (stock 550 / 1st over Honda pistons / PD/A's, Swarbrick 4 into 4), and later when I put in a MegaCycle 126-00.  The stock 550 numbers are known, and (I think) there are 550 dyno sheets with pods, and 4-1's in the dyno thread.  Should give TT that kind of hard numbers he's looking for.  And yes RR, I won't consider it 'tuned' until it idles / rolls-on as clean as stock.

1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline scottly

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2011, 08:25:10 PM »

To late PM already sent. LOL
No problem. I love my Webers!!! ;D
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2011, 08:32:50 PM »

To late PM already sent. LOL
No problem. I love my Webers!!! ;D


Ahhh...Webers, wonderful devices.  Have a Lynx manifold kit coming.
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2011, 08:47:31 PM »
OMG! I stepped on someones holy grail!

Look, I just said I don't get it. My experience has been different than yours. Pods seem simple to me, and all the stuff about finding the right jets/needle settings being difficult was not MY experience.

As for comparison to a factory tuned bike. Well I tuned it with the bread box and found it ok. I paid for a professional tune, and still found it ok. However.....THIS WAS NOT FACTORY! And damned few of our bikes are.....they are 30+ years old so a "factory tuned bike" is......well...an impossibility. They all have miles that make them less than factory, and/or minor changes/replacements/rebuilds down through the years. My bike has an unknown number of miles on a rebuild of unknown quality, and it's running an old Prestolite system, how in hades am I gonna get it to a "factory tuned" state?

Subjective? Hell yes it's subjective....so is the idea of a "factory tuned" 750SOHC bike nowadays. I know it runs great now, and the PO says it runs better than when he had it. Enough for me. You may doubt me, that's your prerogative, but it doesn't change a thing.

If anyone is so hopped up over the whole thing then go spend some money on making a "factory tuned bike" and Dyno it, then switch to pods, and dyno it again, then come back and tell us about it.

Just sayin, yer experience is not mine and I still don't get it when it comes to all the "hassle" of pods.
Cuts Crooked
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Offline burmashave

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2011, 09:26:43 PM »
Sorry all, I'll be hanging on the the CR's if I do go back to stock. I haven't made up my mind yet.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2011, 10:34:32 PM »
OMG! I stepped on someones holy grail!
Subjective? Hell yes it's subjective....so is the idea of a "factory tuned" 750SOHC bike nowadays. I know it runs great now, and the PO says it runs better than when he had it. Enough for me. You may doubt me, that's your prerogative, but it doesn't change a thing.

I think you missed the point, and can confirm that, in your words, "you just don't get it".  The factory tuned bikes had complete performance spec sheets with which to compare any "improvements" you think you have made to your bike.  If you want to boast about the vast improvements you've made, just do similar tests with your "now" bike, and see how it compares to the data recorded when they were new.

For example, CB750's back then did the quarter mile in 13.4 - 13.74 seconds depending on the test report and bike/model.  If your bike is making more power than stock, it should do a better time.  It is not a difficult task.

You could even use the spec sheet below to compare zero to 30 or zero to 60 times.  If your mods make the bike faster, it should show better times.  Laws of physics applied equally in 1970 as it does in 2011.

That is real data.

Posting that pods or shiny paint made your bike "have guts", while pleasant for you, doesn't help someone else choose what is best for his bike.  It could be that you are incredibly lucky or skilled.  But, if you can't explain why, how does it help?

I don't know why you are getting all defensive and irate.  You said you didn't get it, and I tried to explain it to you.  So now, I'm the bad guy for even responding to your post?  I don't understand objecting to a technical discussion in a technical forum, and deciding that personal opinion takes higher priority or is even relevant.

Regards,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline scottly

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2011, 10:46:11 PM »

In engineering, the numbers speak for themselves.
I averaged 62.5 MPG over a 125 mile stretch on the relay. What was your best average over a similar distance???
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2011, 03:47:55 AM »
Quote
I don't understand objecting to a technical discussion in a technical forum, and deciding that personal opinion takes higher priority or is even relevant.]I don't understand objecting to a technical discussion in a technical forum, and deciding that personal opinion takes higher priority or is even relevant.


I'm not writing a book to explain myself in every pod thread... I don't care that much. I am no super mechanic, although I may be extremely lucky. :-\ You are right...I'm happy with it now, It runs really good and it's easier to work on.  Today, weather permitting, I'm gonna do a 200 mile round trip on it. Further depondent sayeth not.  ;)


Get your book published, I might buy it.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 05:25:27 AM by Cuts Crooked »
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2011, 06:39:20 AM »
"For example, CB750's back then did the quarter mile in 13.4 - 13.74 seconds depending on the test report and bike/model.  If your bike is making more power than stock, it should do a better time.  It is not a difficult task."

Its a very difficult task to match someone else's quarter mile time. Unless you are on the same strip, on a similar day, with similar tires. 1/4 miles times at Tucson Dragway were routinely a second slower than on the coast.

The test would be with that bike, in that environment, before and after pods.

I'm just saying...  :)
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"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."

Offline dougandarthur

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2011, 08:09:40 AM »
Just wondering db22. Did you try changing your jet needles? Could you tell where your flat spots were? I am still in the process of getting my CB400F to run right with pods. It turns out that I will never get it to run right by only changing the Mains, Pilots, Air Screw Setting and Jet Needle Height. I have been able to tune my bike to run great at every throttle position...unfortunately not at the same time. Because the result of the effect of each of the changes overlap by throttle position, its not as simple as tuning three throttle positions (low, middle and WOT).  Once I get my jet needle diameter and taper right, I KNOW it will run great from bottom to top...Now if I can just find Needles I can get rid of that pesky lean flat spot between the pilot jet/air screw tuning range, and the needle jet clip position tuning range.

I have to agree 100% with the pod critics, If you don't enjoy tinkering on your bike, pods are probably not the right way to go for you.

Anybody know where I can find some 2.525 diameter needles??? http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=90716.0
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Offline db22

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2011, 08:34:54 AM »
dougandarthur: I haven't had the courage to change the needle settings.  I have had good luck so far getting things back together after disassembly, but that's a step I have not been willing to attempt.  Time is an issue for me.  Just as you say, I have been able to achieve good idle with stumbly performance at 4000rpm, and the reverse, but not both at the same time.  As far as WOT -- that's for a much younger man than me.

Currently, with the airbox installed, stock jets, and timing bang on, the bike purrs at idle but hesitates under load in 4th and 5th.  Yes, I did succumb to the temptation to install a Dyna-S ignition, and timing lined right up.  It starts on the first kick.  Fresh NGK D7EA plugs look clean.  If I had time today, I'd synch the carbs, but that will have to wait for the weekend.

Man, this thread really got involved!
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Offline bikerbart

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2011, 08:50:24 AM »
y'all need to chill out,TT we all know you are smarter than us and love to show it,how about some laymans terms for the challenged.I swear some of you guys foam at the mouth over this subject.
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Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2011, 11:27:04 AM »
Almost fergot.......
Quote
You tuned the bike up nicely then immediately pulled the airbox and put pods on so how did it run when tuned properly.

Who said I "immediately" pulled the air box? You just assumed that. I said I tuned it, then pulled the air box. You will also find that I indicated that it ran ok with the bread box.

BB, don't rag on TT. He  is one of the best sources of info and ideas on the board. Yeah he's got a fixation on pods, but we all got some "thing" that trips our triggers.
Cuts Crooked
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Old Bikes 'n Old Guns are my first two loves :)

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2011, 11:35:35 AM »
"For example, CB750's back then did the quarter mile in 13.4 - 13.74 seconds depending on the test report and bike/model.  If your bike is making more power than stock, it should do a better time.  It is not a difficult task."

Its a very difficult task to match someone else's quarter mile time. Unless you are on the same strip, on a similar day, with similar tires. 1/4 miles times at Tucson Dragway were routinely a second slower than on the coast.
Ok, I meant it is not a difficult task to actually measure your own bike's present performance for comparison purposes.   That is what I was trying to get at.  Instead, we have NO numbers, or collection of numbers with which to do even a statistical analysis.
The zero to 60 times, and the 1/4 mile times are a fairly good indicators of engine power at WOT.  This is the exact performance metric where pod filters SHOULD show a marked improvement.   And yes, it is certainly of benefit to constrain as many test variables as possible.
If you measure your own bike's performance in the 16s.  Pretty much any "gain" in perceived engine performance due to pods is either negated or seriously compromised by operator ability.  However, we don't even have comparative numbers to see if it is the same ballpark, just hopes, desires, and unsupported expectations.

The test would be with that bike, in that environment, before and after pods.

I agree.  This is certainly the preferred test.  ...which no one seems to be capable of undertaking.  It is far easier to just brag and boast of your "feelings" for many pod idealists who are just looking to justify their style choice.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2011, 11:42:54 AM »

In engineering, the numbers speak for themselves.
I averaged 62.5 MPG over a 125 mile stretch on the relay. What was your best average over a similar distance???

I don't understand your point.  My Cb550F got between 46 and 50 mpg on the trip over combined freeway, city, and about half of it mountainous terrain with speeds varying between 20 and 70 MPH including a "spirited" ride in the mountainous areas keeping up with the CB750s.  To do that, I was in mostly lower gears.

But, it seems you are arguing that a switch to any brand pods filters and simple carb retuning, will make anyone's bike a mileage king.  Is that what you were going for?

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2011, 12:13:21 PM »
y'all need to chill out,TT we all know you are smarter than us and love to show it,how about some laymans terms for the challenged.I swear some of you guys foam at the mouth over this subject.
I find the spreading of "disinformation" annoying, and strive to quash it, as well as provide the best information and analysis I can.  I'm not out to harm anyone.  Quite the contrary.

I will have to ask though, at what grade level of education should the "laymans terms" be directed?
2nd grade level will surely seem condescending to some, and collegiate level will have others perceive messages as "talking down",  regardless if the language and terms is actually more concise and accurate.  Or, did you just wish to steer the conversation into an area where it would be impossible to "win"?

In the end, what right, authority, or sensibility do you have for demanding or controlling the form in which I deliver the information/messages/ thoughts?

It is your prerogative to either accept or reject my posts at your whim, the same as any other forum member.  I'm in no way forcing you to read it, particularly if you see no benefit toward yourself.

Regards,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Tintop

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Re: Pods: I surrender!
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2011, 03:59:57 PM »
dougandarthur: I haven't had the courage to change the needle settings.  I have had good luck so far getting things back together after disassembly, but that's a step I have not been willing to attempt.  Time is an issue for me.  Just as you say, I have been able to achieve good idle with stumbly performance at 4000rpm, and the reverse, but not both at the same time.  As far as WOT -- that's for a much younger man than me.

Currently, with the airbox installed, stock jets, and timing bang on, the bike purrs at idle but hesitates under load in 4th and 5th.  Yes, I did succumb to the temptation to install a Dyna-S ignition, and timing lined right up.  It starts on the first kick.  Fresh NGK D7EA plugs look clean.  If I had time today, I'd synch the carbs, but that will have to wait for the weekend.

Man, this thread really got involved!

DB22, when you do get around to tuning the needles, keep in mind that Suzuki has a needle shim (when I find the P/N I'll post it).  It effectively acts as a 1/2 notch lift.  This doubles the needle adjustment postions available.

'edit' - you mentioned a flat spot in 4th / 5th under load.  What rpm are you at, what throttle position?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 04:03:05 PM by Tintop »
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread