Author Topic: Steering damper anyone? (Read 68048 times)

Nortstudio · « **on:** June 16, 2011, 08:20:34 PM »

After a few good rides in the NYC area these past few weeks, I have become a little obsessed with the idea of possibly runningn a steering damper on my '76 550k. I know these are most often run on race/performance bikes, but some of the bumps and potholes I have encountered recently, have made me wonder if I might not see a bit of improvement/safety out of one of these things.

I have searched this forum for info, and have come up with very little.

I found one of the linear, bolt on type, at Parts and More for cheap.

Is anyone running one of these? Or another brand? Running it with a fork tube bracket or bolted to the lower triple? Any other info?

Thanks

TrueSpin · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2011, 08:35:28 PM »

From what I have seen, most modern sport bikes run these as factory equipment to help stave off tankslappers, to increase steering stability, that sort of thing.

On CBs, I have mostly seen them attached to a spot on the lower tree and bolted to the frame.

Deltarider · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2011, 11:11:04 PM »

Many years ago I was convinced by a Honda dealer who rode a 500 himself NOT to mount a steering damper (he could easily have sold me one).

B.O.X.N.I.F.E. · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2011, 12:19:28 AM »

from mikesxs. was happy with mine.

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2011, 01:01:11 AM »

Quote from: Deltarider on June 16, 2011, 11:11:04 PM

Many years ago I was convinced by a Honda dealer who rode a 500 himself NOT to mount a steering damper (he could easily have sold me one).

Seems like just because he sold them doesn't mean he knows what he is talking about. Why wouldn't you fit a damper.? They come standard on most bikes these days and take out the risk of a tank slapper. Ever had a tank slapper.? I had a bad one at around 100MPH and was extremely lucky not to throw it down the road {on a 836 K2}, i had a badly bruised thumb and it wrecked my tank, it wasn't caused by a poor tyre or a bad front end, it was a small pot hole in the road and happened so fast i thought my front wheel was falling off. I checked everything out and fitted a damper, never happened again and felt rock solid at speed. I have had over 20 K series Honda's and have fitted a damper to all of them, good insurance. Anyone that tells you not to fit a damper doesn't know what he is talking about, there is no detrimental effect from fitting one, only positives so why not.?

Nortstudio · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2011, 04:33:20 AM »

Yeah, it seems a little strange - especially without the full story. Delta, did he ever offer reasons?

If these things, in any way, could aid in stability on rough, pot marked roads, I'm all for them.

Hey box knife, is yours mounted to the lower triple?

Thanks guys

Quote from: Deltarider on June 16, 2011, 11:11:04 PM

Many years ago I was convinced by a Honda dealer who rode a 500 himself NOT to mount a steering damper (he could easily have sold me one).

Deltarider · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2011, 05:13:51 AM »

In over 100.000 kms I've never experienced a tank slapper. I don't know what it is. Maybe I was trained to avoid them. When at high speeds there's a speed wobble, I know what to do.
In my country you get your motorcycle drivers licence ONLY after serious lessons and a training similar to what motorcycle cops have to undergo. I've been in countries where a drivers licence is regarded more as a civil right. There, as long as you know to switch what indicator and as long as you come to a complete stop for a stop sign, you will pass. I'm afraid passing a test here is a bit more difficult.
Traffic in Europe is hectic, much faster than in other parts of the world. Steering dampers are rarely seen overhere.

Skunk Stripe · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2011, 05:24:24 AM »

OR you could just be lucky enough to not have had one yet. Tank slappers can be sudden and no amount of training can stop them sometimes. Considering motogp riders can have them, and sorry to say, their bikes are much more advanced than anything we ride. AND they are better riders than virtually any of us too. Yet it still happens to them.

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2011, 05:35:13 AM »

They are not as rare as you think, most modern sport bikes have them , my 1980's GSXR had a factory steering damper and a lot of other bikes as well. If you had ever experienced a tank slapper you would know that it doesn't matter how well you can ride when it happens you have virtually no control and the only thing to do is try and ride it out, even touching either brake is likely to end up making it worse, i have tried both front and back brakes and the front instantly made it worse, it was a GT550 suzuki and it had bad steering head bearings, i found out the hard way, and funnily enough it had a steering stem mounted damper..... and on my Boldor and although not as violent i touched the back brake and it got instantly worse. You even see them on Moto GP, there was a good example recently where a rider had a really violent tank slapper and threw him off, there's a bit of luck involved in staying on in a tank slapper. Have a look

TANKSLAPPER! MAM 6/28/10
[Motorcycle Accident]TT-Tankslapper-19sec

Nortstudio · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2011, 05:36:33 AM »

Well, I'm glad to hear that you have never experienced such mayhem. I have never experienced a tank slapper either, and for sure, never want to. Hence my questions about this added device. I was looking to hear pros and cons, and if it turns out that the consensus is that these are more fashion over function, I would skip it altogether. I have plenty of other things I could spend the money on.

I finally got to Europe (Italy) for the first time last year (I know you are a little north of there). And I would agree that the driving style is indeed hectic. But I would have to say, it did not seem much more hectic than the traffic here in New York City (and the surrounding area). Also, it often seems as if the roads here were built by the Dutch, upon arrival in the 1600's, and never improved upon since. I don't ride like a lunatic, but I ride on roads, apparently maintained by lunatics

Despite having learned to ride a long time ago, with so much time lapsed between then and recently getting a license, I decided to take the MSS safety course, to get my motorcycle license. While I am not sure where that stacks up against the rigors of European testing standards, I am grateful for some of the pointers they had for me, and find myself referring back to things that were stressed during the test.

For me, adding new and improved rear socks and new fork springs, were steps in the direction of comfort and safety. This thread was merely posted to see if dampers too, could offer a bit of added safety. Just trying to determine if this could be added to the list of choices such as wearing a full-faced helmet as opposed to a half-helmet. I know they are both helmets, but one offers just a little more safety.

Here's to another 100,000 kms of safe riding!

PS. That second video is exactly what I do NOT want to happen....horrifying!

Kong · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2011, 06:20:02 AM »

I don't know much about steering dampers, never had one and only had one bike (Suzuki 500 Titan) that really needed one, but I did want to mention this. You said that you live in the NYC area and this is a 550. Well, those infamous tank slappers and other bad wobbles that people put dampers on to fix generally are high speed events, not the sort of thing one sees in city traffic. You said your concern is potholes and similar road problems in your area. Dampers were not made to deal with those sorts of hazards, shocks and cartridges were. Now they might hold the bars straight when you drop into the abyss of a NYC pothole, so there may be some advantage to having it, but I wouldn't expect too much from on in your circumstance. Oh, I say that assuming that you don't go blasting around town at absurd speeds most of the time. If you had told us that you live some place in Montana and ride on long straight roads with no speed limits I would have jumped right on the 'get a damper' bandwagon, but you don't live in Montana.

Deltarider · « **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2011, 06:33:25 AM »

Thanks for the vids. Very educational. No, I've never experienced one of those. Horrific. I think we call it a shimmy (which is also English).

Nortstudio · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2011, 07:00:10 AM »

I definitely don't live in Montana (although, at times, I wish i did!). I do not tear around the local city roads at high speeds either - but what I DO experience is high speeds on the highways around here. For instance, after the rally ride up north last weekend, for the hand-off (100 miles up the Hudson River), I returned on highways that are maintained in much the same fashion of these local roads. The minute you get to within about 20 miles of the city, roads seem to deteriorate.

I was careful, but I wanted to get home. There are these very specific bumps in the road, caused by I don't know what! (cracks that are then expanded by inclement weather???) In essence, they are small speed bumps, across all lanes of traffic, which is traveling at 70MPH. I am guesstimating here, but I would say they rise about 3-5 inches in some places, and have literally "launched" me into the air. To say nothing of the potholes - smaller than the local roads, but occasionally impossible to avoid at speed.

I try to practice some safety techniques (blip gas a little when I see I'm approaching to raise the front a hair) and certainly brace myself so as not to compact my vertebrae, but these things can be dangerous. I would love to avoid them altogether, but in some places, they are on every highway, and come every 1/4 mile or more.

I'm no speed demon, and i try to be as safe as possible. So if this offers no additional safety, for the type of riding I'm doing, then I will definitley skip it. But if it may offer a bit of additional safety, it may be worth the investment.

Operator · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2011, 07:11:36 AM »

Quote from: B.O.X.N.I.F.E. on June 17, 2011, 12:19:28 AM

from mikesxs. was happy with mine.

I have pretty much the same damper as Boxnife's pictured here. It mounts to the frame and then bolts to the underside of the triple tree.

After riding the highways in rural New Brunswick (lots of cracks, potholes and asphalt patches) I would never go without it. I took it off for a few months to see of it made a difference and the front end was way more unstable hitting these little bumps and grooves in the road. I say if you think it will help it is a good investment. It can't hurt......whereas tankslappers can

The only con is, depending on what type you get, they can shorten your turning radius. The type pictured in Box's post doesn't do that.

754 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2011, 08:09:39 AM »

Delta, why so you think most Honda 4 lower trees have a damper mounting hole?

Sounds llike he could use it.

Loved it on my raked custom frame, jump off after parking, let go of the bars..watch them nicely sqwooooogge over to a gentle stop..no banging against the stop!
If it limits your travel, it is mounted wrong.

jaguar · « **Reply #15 on:** June 17, 2011, 08:13:54 AM »

Here is mine.
Bolts on the the underside of the tree and clamps to the frame.
Simple adjustable damper
total cost was about $100ish

dougandarthur · « **Reply #16 on:** June 17, 2011, 02:57:45 PM »

Jaguar
Where can I get one?

jaguar · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2011, 03:29:42 PM »

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=&store=Main&catId=&productId=p58369&leafCatId=&mmyId=

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=&store=Main&catId=&productId=pH27037&leafCatId=&mmyId=
Seems to be out of stock but its easy to find on ebay or the like

prices seem to have also gone up a bit but not bad
Very nice quality damper

Nortstudio · « **Reply #18 on:** June 17, 2011, 03:40:41 PM »

While I originally posted this question to hear all sides, and have appreciated both sides of the argument, I finally opted to go for it. Enough people have had decent results, and I had a little cash in the Paypal fund, so off I went...

I ended up with a cheaper NHK style for $50 (which Retro has used in the past) from partnmore.com. I'd add a link, but their site is archaic, and it would take you forever to find it.

I also grabbed a fork tube bracket from Mike's XS (cheapest I could find at $23), although it seems that i will not need it (the "buy" ball was rolling before I remembered that i could mount it to the lower triple - damn it!). My forks are soon to be rather naked, and if this mounts up and works OK, great. It might look good. If not, i will send it back.

Has anyone used a fork tube bracket on these bikes? Or is it best to just stick to the lower triple?

Thanks for all the great advice folks. Much appreciated.

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #19 on:** June 17, 2011, 03:52:28 PM »

Another thing that wasn't mentioned here is that you don't have to be going fast to experience a tank slapper, you only have to hit a bump and have the front wheel loose contact or just lighten up and you can get a tank slapper, i think {with the state of most roads} that they are a relatively cheap insurance policy. They definitely make a bike feel more "planted" on the road....

Nortstudio · « **Reply #20 on:** June 17, 2011, 04:20:20 PM »

I'm very excited to be planted!

I'm having to resort to an old post I found in my research where someone used a Dunstall inspired clamp to get the thing mounted on the frame (instead of a weld). It's basically a plumbers clamp. Maybe called a sebac clamp?

Photos here about 1/2 way down.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=10547.35;

B.O.X.N.I.F.E. · « **Reply #21 on:** June 18, 2011, 08:46:36 AM »

Quote from: Nortstudio on June 17, 2011, 04:33:20 AM

Yeah, it seems a little strange - especially without the full story. Delta, did he ever offer reasons?

If these things, in any way, could aid in stability on rough, pot marked roads, I'm all for them.

Hey box knife, is yours mounted to the lower triple?

Thanks guys

Quote from: Deltarider on June 16, 2011, 11:11:04 PM
Many years ago I was convinced by a Honda dealer who rode a 500 himself NOT to mount a steering damper (he could easily have sold me one).

Mounted to the bottom of the triple, and NAPA sells a 1 1/8 pipe clamp that fits perfectly to the frame. Drilled a hole through the center of the clamp and put a nut on the back side. Damper screws into the nut and the clamp then bolts onto the downtube with an included u-bolt.

total cost under $70.

bikerbart · « **Reply #22 on:** June 18, 2011, 09:16:27 AM »

I agree,If you have ever rode in or around NYC it is a good idea.Roads are friggin horrible.Matter of fact I want one.

Really? · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2011, 10:01:37 AM »

I have had a tank slapper at 80mph on a kawi 750 H2. It put me down, no way to get out of it. I hope to never have one again!

I have had nasty warbles (frame flex) on my Venture in high speed sweepers a lot and that was freaky. I have fixed the issue but I still think about it and wonder if it will happen again even after I fixed it by replacing the 6 rubber mounts with solid ones.

I have been looking for a damper for momma's bike and see they are not cheap and they are black. I would like a brushed aluminum or chrome one. Most of the links I collected from here are no good now.

Nortstudio · « **Reply #24 on:** June 18, 2011, 10:09:10 AM »

The or jaguar has above is available I think (about $120) and is metal colored. The black one I got was $50. I don't care about the color (although I do love me some brushed metal), and we will see if te cheapies help at all.

News:

Author Topic: Steering damper anyone? (Read 68048 times)