Poll

Which of these hondas would you use to start vintage roadracing?

350 twin
11 (35.5%)
350 four
3 (9.7%)
400 four
9 (29%)
450 twin
8 (25.8%)

Total Members Voted: 27

Author Topic: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA  (Read 6860 times)

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550_ko

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best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« on: April 27, 2006, 07:39:55 AM »
Hey guys.  I want to finally get into vintage road racing.   This AHRMA NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT class seems like a good place to start.  Mostly stock bikes, for novices.  Should be a relatively inexpensive way to get into road racing.   

 So . . .  what are the merits and limitations of the above bikes?   I am leaning towards a 350 twin because of cost, availability, and I've owned and rebuilt them for years.  But I am not sure that it'll stack up power wise against the bigger bikes.  Thoughts?


Offline Gordon

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2006, 07:47:33 AM »
400F!!  As light as the 350 but more power and Six Gears! ;D

Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2006, 05:44:30 PM »
I don't know the numbers, but I've ridden both.  I think the 350 will probably be lighter and a little quicker off the line.  The 450 is pretty uninspiring in general. The 400/4 will have a higher top end and feel more firmly planted.  I vote 400.
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Offline keiths

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2006, 07:57:49 PM »
Clymer lists  the 350/4 as 32 HP @ 9,500 rpm. It's dry weight is 373 lbs but the 400/4 is only 2 pounds heaver. Clymer doesn't give the HP of the 400/4. I vote for the 400. I've hear that driver skills make a big difference on the track with these lightweight races.

Offline bill440cars

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2006, 09:40:45 PM »


          Looks like I'm going with the black sheep of the bunch. I know that some 350 twins have been used and pretty well at that. Greg of Ohio Cafe Racers has built some pretty impressive 350 twins.

          No doubt, the 350 & 400 fours are equally pretty nice packages also and have some pretty good advantages.

          The 450 DOHC twins have done some pretty good runs. There must be something to them.
I have a booklet with some pretty interesting modifications that have been performed by a Mr. Jim Reed and he used parts from the CB450 & CB500t (which happens to be a Stroked 450). This booklet shows modifications done on the 500T frame and mentions engine modifications as well. There is also a man named Todd Henning mentioned as having done quite well on the 450. They don't say what the hp and torque would be after the build up but, the completed bike (ready to race) weigh in at about 300lbs. The stock CB450 weighs about430 lbs, The CL450 weighs in at about 414.5 lbs and the CB500T weighs in at about 425 lbs. I'd say that that's not bad.

                                                      Later on, Bill   


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Offline crazypj

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2006, 10:01:01 AM »
If you spend enough money you can get 50BHP out of 350 twin but 45~46 is more common. I've seen a few dynoed  and they are usually around 28~30 stock and 34~35 with some head work and carbs.
If you drop a cam and pistons in you'll get some more but I dont have experience of those( but they will run with a 500F)
Stock 400 claimed 40BHP, 550 claimed 50BHP but I think it was at the crank and not at rear wheel
I'm still waiting for AHRMA to make CB360 legal as I have a couple of 1974 models. I'm pretty sure I can make one of those faster than CB400F ;D
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Offline bwaller

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2006, 07:46:00 PM »
550_k0, 

Find out all the modifications that are allowed in your class then go out and race you're 350 twin if that's what you've got. They aren't rockets in stock form but I've seen some really cool 350's after a little tweeking. Get your feet wet and you'll soon find out what is the most competitive ride is. There is lots that can be learned in the pits from guys who've been in the race game a long time and now just want to have fun and not get hurt.

Go for it, have fun, you'll never regret it.

Offline Gordon

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2006, 06:50:38 AM »
You went with the 350 TWIN, right?

Offline malcolmgb

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2006, 01:24:19 PM »
an interesting read that, excuse my ignorance but what is a 'beater'  ???
Malcolm

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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2006, 01:42:56 PM »
usually reserved for beat-up wrecks.

Looks like the 350 four isn't getting much attention (I'm one of the two votes  ::)). I voted for it because it seemed like the closest starting point to Honda's 250 six which has always facinated me for some reason.
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2006, 08:29:14 AM »
Sorry, but that's too good for a beater.  ;)
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Offline bill440cars

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2006, 10:09:50 AM »


               Jorge, I've got a CB400F with the exact same wheels, I would say they came of off a CB400F
          also. I have to say, it looks like you've got a good start on that bike, what with your extras and
          all. Keep us posted on the progress. I'll let you know about the seat later on today and thanks
         for the consideration.  Later on, Bill
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

Offline crazypj

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2006, 10:56:12 AM »
The wheels are COMSTAR off a late 250/400 twin first used around 1978 (CB250 T Dream in Britain, not sure what it was called in US) They will be legal for CCS but I dont think so for AHRMA. You have 19" front and 18"rear. The forks are also CB/CM 400 T, longer than 350/360 forks ( about 30" instaed of 28" overall length)
I'm pretty sure the spoked wheels from the same bike (CB400 T) are the same as CB350T, ( I have a pair off CB400T but not 350, there may be some improvements on sprocket carrierbut they look just like the ones on CB360) with either TLS or disc brake on last year of 350. CB360T and CB400F are, as far as I can tell the same hubs and wheels with  4 bolt disc brake (500/550/750 use 6 bolt)
PJ
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2006, 11:44:00 AM »
Quote
Bob, it just photographs well  .   It really is a wreck:  tacky (in reference to its material not aesthetic qualities) rattle can paint, smashed tank (on top and side) seized up carbs, no brakes, sticky stuff of unknown origin all over the seat and controls . . .  yuk 

OK, now that you describe it in more detail..  ;D
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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2006, 11:55:28 AM »
....double what PJ says.

Historic production has to be basically a showroom stock bike.....minus lights etc. and what you need for safety items. Even in the 350 Sportsman class you are limited on mods....not as much as Historic. GP classes allow for some modifications, but you have to run fairings.

If I remember correctly.....the AHRMA homepage has a downloadable rules book.

Later,
Greg

Offline bill440cars

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2006, 02:56:00 PM »


    Sorry about that Jorge, My 76' CB400F had Comstars, just like those, on it when I got it and I assumed that they were stock. I had no indication that they belonged on it. Later on, Bill
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2006, 04:16:32 AM »
 I am unclear from reading the rules if it is OK to use say 400f forks on a 350 twin. 

From what I know of the class......if your running a 1972 Honda CB350, it must have 72 CB350 parts. But...thats not to say you cant run a CL front end....they are basically the same. You must have like minded parts for that make and model and must run stock handlebar and footpeg locations.

Heres a quote..."Machines must use the standard production OEM frame, swingarm, forks and handlebar mounts. Engines must be standard OEM bore and stroke regardless of displacement(plus allowable overbore, as described in rule 9.7". You can overbore .20" on the 350s and you can upgrade the brakes to Sportsman 750 specs(one front disc brake of period standard...no more than 12" dia and no more than 2 pistons).

I dont know...but if it was me....i'd run 350 sportsman. You can run in a couple different class's and not limited to meeting the requirements of a production stock machine.

Later,
Greg

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Re: best Honda 4 NOVICE HISTORIC PRODUCTION LIGHTWEIGHT AHRMA
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2006, 04:48:51 AM »



Hey Jorge, Your "Freeway"skills may not be the same as on a race track but, I'll bet things got pretty hairy on the California freeway though. I spent about 8 months at the end of my 4 year hitch of AIr Force time at Hamilton Air Force Base by Ignacio (I think that's how you spell it) and spent some time around that area in a 69' road runner and it could get quite interesting at times.

                                                                       Bill
Member # 1969
PRAYERS ALWAYS FOR: Bre, Jeff & Virginia, Bear, Trevor & Brianna ( Close Friend's Daughter)
"Because HE lives, I can Face Tomorrow"                  
 You CAN Teach An Old Dog New Tricks, Just Takes A Little Bit Longer & A Lot More Patience!! 
             
Main Rides: '02 Durango, '71 Swinger & Dad's '93
                  Dakota LE 4x4 '66 CB77 & '72 SL350K2
Watch What You Step Into, It Could  End Up A Mess!