Topic: Wear your helmet!

[Stev-o]

This guy didn't and may still be alive if he had:


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-07-04-motorcycle-helmet-protest-death_n.htm?csp=hf

Is it ironic that he died protesting the helmet law?

[Greggo]

I heard this over the radio at work when it happened yesterday, and after cringing, I wondered how all those protesters felt?  I understand that it's the requirement that they're protesting, but that must have made at least a few people rethink their stance on the issue. 

RIP to the rider, and best wishes the family.

[Gordon]

I understand that it's the requirement that they're protesting, but that must have made at least a few people rethink their stance on the issue. 

I wonder how many (if any) of those in the protest ride realize that you don't have to ride without a helmet to disagree with a mandatory helmet law. 

[petercb750]

Sad outcome, and the irony is not lost on me, but whether it's law or not, I don't understand ANYONE riding without a helmet.
Helmets are not a fashion statement or political footballs, they are lifesavers.

[faux fiddy]

Sad outcome, and the irony is not lost on me, but whether it's law or not, I don't understand ANYONE riding without a helmet.
Helmets are not a fashion statement or political footballs, they are lifesavers.

Damn straight. Just saw the story here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/07/03/national/main20076546.shtml?tag=pop

[trueblue]

This guy sounds like a sure candidate for the Darwin Awards 

[74cb750]

Most of the time I wear a helmet.

This weekend was an exception as I visited a friend and had not brought mine.

I followed him on upper New Hampshire backroads as he putt-putted up to
speeds of 41 mph on his Jawa 350 with sidecar.

The point is: I had a choice in New Hampshire, but we don't in Vermont.

peace
michel

[scrapvalue]

Wearing a helmet should be optional. Learning to use your brakes properly should be mandatory.

[petercb750]

I knew someone who fell from a bike doing a u-turn, no helmet, hit head on road - dead.
It had nothing to do with being able to brake effectively. It doesn't matter one iota how well you can brake if the one time you slip and fall you die because you weren't wearing the proper gear.
Had he been wearing a helmet he'd be alive, and have nothing but a bit of skin missing from an elbow.

For those that think it's your right to make a choice, unfortunately, some people make poor choices (or don't know any better) and the mandatory wearing of helmets is there to protect those people (from themselves). If you choose to not wear a helmet, may you also choose to pay for your own treatement when confined to the brain injury wards and ongoing care for the rest of your lives, and not expect the people who have better sense to foot the bill.
There is NOTHING about non wearing of helmets that I find intelligent, clever or justifiable. It is just WRONG.
That's my 2 bobs worth. Yes, I feel strongly about this.
Peter.

[Tom in Newcastle......Ontario]

I knew someone who fell from a bike doing a u-turn, no helmet, hit head on road - dead.
It had nothing to do with being able to brake effectively. It doesn't matter one iota how well you can brake if the one time you slip and fall you die because you weren't wearing the proper gear.
Had he been wearing a helmet he'd be alive, and have nothing but a bit of skin missing from an elbow.

For those that think it's your right to make a choice, unfortunately, some people make poor choices (or don't know any better) and the mandatory wearing of helmets is there to protect those people (from themselves). If you choose to not wear a helmet, may you also choose to pay for your own treatement when confined to the brain injury wards and ongoing care for the rest of your lives, and not expect the people who have better sense to foot the bill.
There is NOTHING about non wearing of helmets that I find intelligent, clever or justifiable. It is just WRONG.
That's my 2 bobs worth. Yes, I feel strongly about this.
Peter.

1+++++

[Gordon]

For those that think it's your right to make a choice,

It is my right, as I live in a state that allows the choice. 

unfortunately, some people make poor choices (or don't know any better) and the mandatory wearing of helmets is there to protect those people (from themselves).

I don't want the government protecting me from myself.  That gives them far to much control over my own personal choices.

If you choose to not wear a helmet, may you also choose to pay for your own treatement when confined to the brain injury wards and ongoing care for the rest of your lives, and not expect the people who have better sense to foot the bill.

In principle I agree, but that's a very slippery slope to go down.  What about all the other hundreds or thousands of different things people do every day that either create an immediate danger to themselves or cause medical issues down the road?  Are we going to police every single decision that every single person makes every day?
 

There is NOTHING about non wearing of helmets that I find intelligent, clever or justifiable. It is just WRONG.

I also think it's not a very intelligent choice, but it's not a matter of right or wrong.  It's just a matter of personal choice. 

That's my 2 bobs worth. Yes, I feel strongly about this.

So do I.  An adult should be able to make decisions for themselves, so long as the possible negative outcomes of those decisions don't needlessly endanger the lives or safety of others, without the government interfering and making the decisions for them.  That's called a nanny state, and I don't want or need a nanny.   

[mark]

This guy sounds like a sure candidate for the Darwin Awards 

at age 55 he's probably already bred. no Darwin Award.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Oh... bitter, bitter irony... 

[Skunk Stripe]

The sad thing about all this is the vast amount of mis-information about helmets, even from some EMT personnel. I know an emt that hates helmets for supposedly causing more neck injuries and causing head injuries. He was good at his job but he just had no clue about helmets. Plus, his decision on lids was made in the 80s and helmets have come a LONG way since then. And yet, even then, they were still most likely to save your life than not.

[mark]

It is my right, as I .... 

I ... me ... myself.  ... my own personal choices.
....
. government interfering and making the decisions for them.  That's called a nanny state, and I don't want or need a nanny.   

wow.  lemme see if I've got this straight. Your head is so special that big bad gubmint would pass a law to preserve it. my my, what a flattering delusion. someone was taking notes during the self-esteem fad.

Helmet laws aren't about a nanny state jerking with your personal choices. Helmet laws are about your elected representatives paying back the folks who paid for the campaign. Did you think "business friendly" meant a new 7-11 in walking distance??


Give the insurance company salvage rights to your carcass - (sell some organs in a free market economy, perhaps?) - and helmet laws would evaporate like snowflakes in a blast furnace.

[Gordon]

It is my right, as I .... 

I ... me ... myself.  ... my own personal choices.
....
. government interfering and making the decisions for them.  That's called a nanny state, and I don't want or need a nanny.   

wow.  lemme see if I've got this straight. Your head is so special that big bad gubmint would pass a law to preserve it. my my, what a flattering delusion. someone was taking notes during the self-esteem fad.

Helmet laws aren't about a nanny state jerking with your personal choices. Helmet laws are about your elected representatives paying back the folks who paid for the campaign. Did you think "business friendly" meant a new 7-11 in walking distance??


Give the insurance company salvage rights to your carcass - (sell some organs in a free market economy, perhaps?) - and helmet laws would evaporate like snowflakes in a blast furnace.

Who pissed in your wheaties, Mark?

The reason for the law makes absolutely no difference.  The outcome is the issue.  Why does it bother you so much if I don't like laws that unnecessarily make personal decisions for me? 

Oh, sorry.  There I go using those pesky pronouns again to further delude and flatter my overblown self esteem.  Hope I didn't offend you.  

[scrapvalue]

I knew someone who fell from a bike doing a u-turn, no helmet, hit head on road - dead.
It had nothing to do with being able to brake effectively. It doesn't matter one iota how well you can brake if the one time you slip and fall you die because you weren't wearing the proper gear.
Had he been wearing a helmet he'd be alive, and have nothing but a bit of skin missing from an elbow.

For those that think it's your right to make a choice, unfortunately, some people make poor choices (or don't know any better) and the mandatory wearing of helmets is there to protect those people (from themselves). If you choose to not wear a helmet, may you also choose to pay for your own treatement when confined to the brain injury wards and ongoing care for the rest of your lives, and not expect the people who have better sense to foot the bill.
There is NOTHING about non wearing of helmets that I find intelligent, clever or justifiable. It is just WRONG.
That's my 2 bobs worth. Yes, I feel strongly about this.
Peter.

Helmets should be optional, Learning to turn your motorcycle around should be mandatory.

I don't think anyone here is saying you shouldn't wear a helmet.
I just don't need anyone telling me I have to wear one.
That includes you and the goverment.
I appreciate your concern for my well being, but I already have a mom that does that.

[Skunk Stripe]

Well scrap, I will say it is amazing how people suddenly change their mind when someone they are close to, dies from not wearing a helmet.

[dhall57]

Yes, wear your helmet. I learned my lesson at a early age in 1971. 14 years old and me and my buddy were riding our little Honda 70's around in probably a 3 or 4 acre open field. And after all these years Im still not sure how it happened, but we hit each other. Neither of us had helmets my friend didn't get a scratch but I spend the next 2 week in the hospital with a fractured skull. At tops we might of been running 25 mph, but that's all it takes. I wasn't told this until years later, but I almost didn't make it. At times over the years I've been careless a few times and not wore a helmet, but about 6 years ago a friend who was against the helmet law and seldom ever wore one laid his bike down it a turn and died right there on the hwy. Police said at the time they weren't sure what happened but speed wasn't a factor and if he had been wearing a helmet he would of survived and more than likely walked away from it. Ever since if my butt is on a bike a helmet is on my head.

[petercb750]

Gordon, Scrap and the other freedom fighters - you might be smart enough to make sound decisions about your own safety and future, goodonya, but there are some who are not so smart and make very stupid decisions - the laws on mandatory wearing of helmets are made to help protect those in the community who are not able to make smart decisions and who actually need protection, and to also try to lower the costs to the general public for the ongoing intensive care and support they will inevitably cost society, not to mention the suffering and grief caused to their loved ones. It costs billions - taxpayer billions - as does the effects of smoking, but don't get me started on that.

Gordon, yes there are many things that people can get wrong that will cost society, but if measures are put in place to try to help reduce that cost and burden and save lives, then that can only be a good thing. Do you obey speed limits, or do you "choose" to drive at whatever speed you want? Do you have a problem with mandatory speed limits? Why do you think we have them? Why are helmets any different?

Personally, I am amazed there are still states that have helmets as optional - with the amount of litigation these days it's a wonder that somebody who acquires a brain injury from not wearing one hasn't sued that state for not making them wear it....maybe it has already happened.

Scrap, I'll let the wife and kids of the chap that died doing that turn, and who actually witnessed it, know that his head turning to the consistency of a rotten tomato had nothing to do with him choosing to not wear a helmet, it was all about him being unable to turn. Your comment was a tad insensitive mate. Never lost your balance yourself?

I know that my points will be lost on some, and there are none so deaf....but I'm yet to be convinced that anything other than mandatory wearing of helmets is ok. Anyway, my helmet stops bugs from knocking my teeth out...

[trueblue]

In my experience, it's not so much about protecting yourself from yourself, it is more about protecting yourself from everyone else.  When I was first learning to ride on the road, the first thing I was taught was, when riding, treat everyone else on the road like they want to kill you.  They will pull out in front of you, cut you off and I have had them even try to run me off the road, I have had many close calls, thankfully that was all they were, but if I ever need it I know I will have my helmet on my head.  Years ago when I used to race bicycles, I had a bad accident, I came off during training at a little over 50 kph, I was wearing little in the way of protective gear, my left elbow was ground down to the bone, and I had numerous smaller wounds all over my body, but what scared me the most was the condition of my helmet, it was worn through on one side, where it wore through it was about 3/4 of an inch thick.  If I hadn't been wearing that helmet that day I doubt I would be sitting here typing this now.  After seeing and feeling the damage first hand that coming off at that speed can do, I don't go near a motorbike without being fully suited up.  I don't even want to think of what it would feel like coming down at highway speed.

[tramp]

let darwinism work

[Skunk Stripe]

Says the father till he loses his son.

[Gordon]

Gordon, Scrap and the other freedom fighters - you might be smart enough to make sound decisions about your own safety and future, goodonya, but there are some who are not so smart and make very stupid decisions - the laws on mandatory wearing of helmets are made to help protect those in the community who are not able to make smart decisions and who actually need protection, and to also try to lower the costs to the general public for the ongoing intensive care and support they will inevitably cost society, not to mention the suffering and grief caused to their loved ones. It costs billions - taxpayer billions - as does the effects of smoking, but don't get me started on that.

Like I said, it's a slippery slope.  Poor eating habits cause a far, far greater financial burden on society than motorcycle riders who don't wear helmets, in the form of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc, etc...  Many people just can't be bothered to eat well.  Would you support laws that tell you exactly what you can and cannot eat just because there are some out there who can't or won't make good decisions for themselves?

Gordon, yes there are many things that people can get wrong that will cost society, but if measures are put in place to try to help reduce that cost and burden and save lives, then that can only be a good thing.

When too many laws of this type are put into place, the majority of personal choice is removed from everybody's lives.  That doesn't sound like a good thing to me.  When you cater to the lowest common denominator, you reduce everybody to the lowest common denominator.  It's a matter of where you decide to draw the line.  I choose to draw it when the laws in question are governing choices I'm making that have no bearing on the safety or well-being of others. 

Do you obey speed limits, or do you "choose" to drive at whatever speed you want? Do you have a problem with mandatory speed limits? Why do you think we have them? Why are helmets any different?

I don't really need to explain the fundamental difference between speed limits and mandatory helmet laws, do I?

[tango911]

I agree with the choice to wear or not, but it sure is silly to have a seat belt law and no helmet law.  Seat belts should be a choice as well. However im "Safety Man"  so i wear my helmet all the time and safty jacket.