Topic: A real CR750 "kit" bike on ebay.

[kos]

anyone interested in a real CR750 kit machine, tale a look at item # 170646802522

A friend I met in Sweden, summer of 2000 has his for sale and it comes with documentation.

If nothing else, take a look at the detailed photographs as there a lot of real kit part details to be viewed for all of you trying to replicate one of these.

Mark

M3 Racing USA

[azuredesign]

anyone interested in a real CR750 kit machine, tale a look at item # 170646802522

A friend I met in Sweden, summer of 2000 has his for sale and it comes with documentation.

If nothing else, take a look at the detailed photographs as there a lot of real kit part details to be viewed for all of you trying to replicate one of these.

Mark

M3 Racing USA

Very interesting to see and read about, thanks!

[lordmoonpie]

What designates it as a kit machine then I wonder? It's a nice bike but lots of standard 750 stuff on there like switch gear, grips, even the mirror stubs. I may be being immodest but I think mine is a notch above this one so that got me interested - why "kit" cr750. What does it have to have to be called "kit"?

Hasn't he also got his dash the wrong way up?

I'm not being mean about this bike - I'm interested to know if he can command that sort of money then maybe I could sell mine and recoup most of the build cost after all

[simon#42]

a scruffy original bike is always going to be worth much more than an immaculate copy im afraid simon . i must admit i dont see the magic in them at all , just an old road bike with a few add ons ,  for that money you could buy a proper racing bike

[MRieck]

I find the part about the broke con rod/cases vary interesting especially as the engine was barely run. What is up with that?

[Sam Green Racing]

Another thing Mike, I wonder if he still has the origional cases (though broken) It could help to prove authenticity.

Simon, in respect of the dash being the wrong way round, did you not know that Sweden have not been able to make their minds up for years about which side of the road to drive on.
SwedenMain article: Dagen H
Sweden had legal left-hand traffic (vänstertrafik in Swedish) from approximately 1734, when it changed back from a short period of right-hand traffic starting in 1718. With or without legal rule, traditionally the left side was used for carriages. Finland, under Swedish rule until 1809, also drove on the left, and continued to do so as a Russian Grand Duchy until 1858.[100]

This continued well into the 20th century, despite the fact that virtually all the cars on the road in Sweden were LHD. (One argument for this was that it was necessary to keep an eye on the edge of the road, something that was important on the narrow roads in use at the time). Also, Sweden's neighbours Norway and Finland already drove on the right, leading to confusion at border crossings.

In 1955 a referendum was held on the issue, resulting in an 82.9%-to-15.5% vote against a change to driving on the right. Nevertheless, in 1963 the Swedish parliament passed legislation ordering the switch to right-hand traffic. The changeover took place at 5am on Sunday, 3 September 1967, which was known in Swedish as Dagen H (H-Day), the 'H' being for Högertrafik or right traffic.

Since Swedish cars were LHD, experts had suggested that changing to driving on the right would be safer, because drivers would have a better view of the road ahead. The accident rate dropped sharply after the change[101] However, the accident rate soon rose back to near its original level.[25] The speed limits were temporarily lowered.

  Sam.

[lordmoonpie]

a scruffy original bike is always going to be worth much more than an immaculate copy im afraid simon . i must admit i dont see the magic in them at all , just an old road bike with a few add ons ,  for that money you could buy a proper racing bike

I hear you Simon, I'm just interested as to what makes it special. Maybe I shoudl have left all the old switchgear on that came with the donor bike and made my chin pad with a blunt spoon and Sam's dentures? 

[lordmoonpie]

Another thing Mike, I wonder if he still has the origional cases (though broken) I could help to prove authenticity.

Simon, in respect of the dash being the wrong way round, did you not know that Sweden have not been able to make their minds up for years about which side of the road to drive on.
SwedenMain article: Dagen H
Sweden had legal left-hand traffic (vänstertrafik in Swedish) from approximately 1734, when it changed back from a short period of right-hand traffic starting in 1718. With or without legal rule, traditionally the left side was used for carriages. Finland, under Swedish rule until 1809, also drove on the left, and continued to do so as a Russian Grand Duchy until 1858.[100]

This continued well into the 20th century, despite the fact that virtually all the cars on the road in Sweden were LHD. (One argument for this was that it was necessary to keep an eye on the edge of the road, something that was important on the narrow roads in use at the time). Also, Sweden's neighbours Norway and Finland already drove on the right, leading to confusion at border crossings.

In 1955 a referendum was held on the issue, resulting in an 82.9%-to-15.5% vote against a change to driving on the right. Nevertheless, in 1963 the Swedish parliament passed legislation ordering the switch to right-hand traffic. The changeover took place at 5am on Sunday, 3 September 1967, which was known in Swedish as Dagen H (H-Day), the 'H' being for Högertrafik or right traffic.

Since Swedish cars were LHD, experts had suggested that changing to driving on the right would be safer, because drivers would have a better view of the road ahead. The accident rate dropped sharply after the change[101] However, the accident rate soon rose back to near its original level.[25] The speed limits were temporarily lowered.

  Sam.

Sam - if I ever began to wonder why you attained the staus of Moderator, posts like this remind me.....brilliant

[simon#42]

Another thing Mike, I wonder if he still has the origional cases (though broken) I could help to prove authenticity.

Simon, in respect of the dash being the wrong way round, did you not know that Sweden have not been able to make their minds up for years about which side of the road to drive on.
SwedenMain article: Dagen H
Sweden had legal left-hand traffic (vänstertrafik in Swedish) from approximately 1734, when it changed back from a short period of right-hand traffic starting in 1718. With or without legal rule, traditionally the left side was used for carriages. Finland, under Swedish rule until 1809, also drove on the left, and continued to do so as a Russian Grand Duchy until 1858.[100]

This continued well into the 20th century, despite the fact that virtually all the cars on the road in Sweden were LHD. (One argument for this was that it was necessary to keep an eye on the edge of the road, something that was important on the narrow roads in use at the time). Also, Sweden's neighbours Norway and Finland already drove on the right, leading to confusion at border crossings.

In 1955 a referendum was held on the issue, resulting in an 82.9%-to-15.5% vote against a change to driving on the right. Nevertheless, in 1963 the Swedish parliament passed legislation ordering the switch to right-hand traffic. The changeover took place at 5am on Sunday, 3 September 1967, which was known in Swedish as Dagen H (H-Day), the 'H' being for Högertrafik or right traffic.

Since Swedish cars were LHD, experts had suggested that changing to driving on the right would be safer, because drivers would have a better view of the road ahead. The accident rate dropped sharply after the change[101] However, the accident rate soon rose back to near its original level.[25] The speed limits were temporarily lowered.

  Sam.

amazing ......  now if i promise to try and get your dentures back off simon will you promise to try and go out more often !

[Sam Green Racing]

It's not done it for quite a while but my puter just threw a fit  at times, it objects to doing long posts
So back to the bike  quite a few things don't look as they should or don't look like WE think they should. Over the years i've seen some real weird stunts pulled by Hondas production line but puttig a set of forks that hadn't been invented on a bike in 1972 stinks of a cock up.
That type of fork was only fitted to smaller models starting in 69 and wasn't seen on the 750s untill 75 when the first F model came out.
Then there's what the owner claims, He says he has documentation that his CR was a complete bike that was built in the factory in Japan. I know for a fact that quite a few complete bikes were built at the factory and secifications varied quite a lot.
If we are to beleive this guy, his CR has a stock oil tank which Mark says, Quote..... side oil tank with half fairing also fits no known CR I have ever viewed or read about?
So do we take this guys word for it or do we listen to Mark.....the ball is in your court readers, beleive what you will. now can I have my dentures back.

Sam.

[Sam Green Racing]

Another thing Mike, I wonder if he still has the origional cases (though broken) I could help to prove authenticity.

Simon, in respect of the dash being the wrong way round, did you not know that Sweden have not been able to make their minds up for years about which side of the road to drive on.
SwedenMain article: Dagen H
Sweden had legal left-hand traffic (vänstertrafik in Swedish) from approximately 1734, when it changed back from a short period of right-hand traffic starting in 1718. With or without legal rule, traditionally the left side was used for carriages. Finland, under Swedish rule until 1809, also drove on the left, and continued to do so as a Russian Grand Duchy until 1858.[100]

This continued well into the 20th century, despite the fact that virtually all the cars on the road in Sweden were LHD. (One argument for this was that it was necessary to keep an eye on the edge of the road, something that was important on the narrow roads in use at the time). Also, Sweden's neighbours Norway and Finland already drove on the right, leading to confusion at border crossings.

In 1955 a referendum was held on the issue, resulting in an 82.9%-to-15.5% vote against a change to driving on the right. Nevertheless, in 1963 the Swedish parliament passed legislation ordering the switch to right-hand traffic. The changeover took place at 5am on Sunday, 3 September 1967, which was known in Swedish as Dagen H (H-Day), the 'H' being for Högertrafik or right traffic.

Since Swedish cars were LHD, experts had suggested that changing to driving on the right would be safer, because drivers would have a better view of the road ahead. The accident rate dropped sharply after the change[101] However, the accident rate soon rose back to near its original level.[25] The speed limits were temporarily lowered.

  Sam.

amazing ......  now if i promise to try and get your dentures back off simon will you promise to try and go out more often !

I spend to much time watching Egg Heads

Sam.

[BLUE71TURBO]

 Here's the bike .......http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CR-750-1971-FACTORY-BUILT-JAPAN-/170646802522?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item27bb57905a     

[MRieck]

I was looking at those 2 rods that I assume came out of the engine. They haven't been touched. By touched I mean beams polished (at the least) and shot peened. I have seen real HRC and Kawasaki kit parts and the rods are very nice. The Kawasaki stuff was artwork especially the skeletonized shift drum and clutch basket. Beautiful pieces.

[kos]

It's not done it for quite a while but my puter just threw a fit  at times, it objects to doing long posts
So back to the bike  quite a few things don't look as they should or don't look like WE think they should. Over the years i've seen some real weird stunts pulled by Hondas production line but puttig a set of forks that hadn't been invented on a bike in 1972 stinks of a cock up.
That type of fork was only fitted to smaller models starting in 69 and wasn't seen on the 750s untill 75 when the first F model came out.
Then there's what the owner claims, He says he has documentation that his CR was a complete bike that was built in the factory in Japan. I know for a fact that quite a few complete bikes were built at the factory and specifications varied quite a lot.
If we are to believe this guy, his CR has a stock oil tank which Mark says, Quote..... side oil tank with half fairing also fits no known CR I have ever viewed or read about?
So do we take this guys word for it or do we listen to Mark.....the ball is in your court readers, believe what you will. now can I have my dentures back.

Sam.

i only brought this to your attention as it was an interesting machine as owner states that it came from Honda Motor Company this way. His works not mine, have you. There is a dealer in Canada that claims he purchased a bike that was built in the factory also, Personally...I don't believe either story as all of my research tells me that there were no complete "kit or kitted" bikes ever made by Honda Motor in Japan. I think distributors might have used as many parts as they had on hand and tried to build complete bikes, but as production of the street going CB750 for huge USA sales, demanded so much of the engineers time and resources the "kit" parts were slow in coming.

As far as CR750, Kit bike and RC750...there were never any CR750's made by the Honda factory. Those machines that Honda Works factory built and Honda America, Honda France, and Honda UK raced.... are in fact noted as RC750's.

Even at Daytona 1970 the T shirts all were lettered with CB750 not CR750 as American Honda and Honda of Japan wanted to sell CB750's.

Mark

M3Racing

[lordmoonpie]

i only brought this to your attention as it was an interesting machine as owner states that it came from Honda Motor Company this way. His works not mine, have you. There is a dealer in Canada that claims he purchased a bike that was built in the factory also, Personally...I don't believe either story as all of my research tells me that there were no complete "kit or kitted" bikes ever made by Honda Motor in Japan. I think distributors might have used as many parts as they had on hand and tried to build complete bikes, but as production of the street going CB750 for huge USA sales, demanded so much of the engineers time and resources the "kit" parts were slow in coming.

As far as CR750, Kit bike and RC750...there were never any CR750's made by the Honda factory. Those machines that Honda Works factory built and Honda America, Honda France, and Honda UK raced.... are in fact noted as RC750's.

Even at Daytona 1970 the T shirts all were lettered with CB750 not CR750 as American Honda and Honda of Japan wanted to sell CB750's.

Mark

M3Racing

Glad that you did Mark - the debates about what is and isn't genuine often bring out fascinating insights from people on this forum and getting that information out in the open is tremendous fun and extremely interesting. Bring it on I say :-)

Interesting that even back in '72 Honda's marketing machine was so tuned in to the prospect of the CB750 in America being a massive hit and had T-shirts printed to support that ratehr than use the perhaps correct designation for the racers. Got to admire old Soichiro, he certainly knew what he wanted out of life...

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Heres a pic showing said shirts! ...Yes Mr. Honda very wise man!

Thanks,Sam for the pic.Bill

[Tim2005]

I was looking at those 2 rods that I assume came out of the engine. They haven't been touched. By touched I mean beams polished (at the least) and shot peened. I have seen real HRC and Kawasaki kit parts and the rods are very nice. The Kawasaki stuff was artwork especially the skeletonized shift drum and clutch basket. Beautiful pieces.

I'm inclined to agree, I have RSC rods in my Seeley #642 and although it is several years since I last saw them I recollect that they are pretty special looking pieces of kit indeed.

[kos]

Yes, the RSC built Kit parts, the rods were polished, in fact polished so much that they looked to be chromed!

I had a set I purchased from Woody Leone.

Mark @M3 racing

[Old Scrambler]

Interesting............ 16-tooth counter-shaft sprocket. I like the detailed photo of the steering stabilizer!!! I may have one or two spares lying around in my garage.  It looks the frame mount for the stabilzer may also support the tank???

[Sam Green Racing]

Interesting............ 16-tooth counter-shaft sprocket. I like the detailed photo of the steering stabilizer!!! I may have one or two spares lying around in my garage.  It looks the frame mount for the stabilzer may also support the tank???

Dennis, one of those spares in your garage is mine, guess you forgot to send it.
I still want it if you can post it to Atlanta.

Sam.

[Old Scrambler]

Sam .............happy to oblige..............Send me an address and I'll PM with the bad news...............

[Sam Green Racing]

PM sent Dennis, make the bad news gentle bad news.

Sam.

[BENOR]

Hi,
This CR750 was made by Honda in Japan for AB Auto-Hansa in 1971, which at that time was importer of  Honda to Sweden and was a reward as they had sold so many CB750 in Sweden. The bike was painted in same colour as Dick Manns CR750. It was the meaning that a Swedish driver should race it in the Formula 750 class in Swedish Racing, but he of some reason did not. The bike was then sold to a friend to Björn Nilsen, Björn worked for AB Auto-Hansa in those days, and some time later sold to Björn.  He did paint the CR750 in the usual red Honda racing colour that it has today. All paperwork (Assembly, dissembly history) come with the bike from Japan. There are a lot of pictures of this bike in the Swedish journal (Classic Honda Magazine).

The bike that Dick Mann raced in Daytona 200 was sold to a Honda dealer/racer in Sweden, Kenneth Stigefeldt, but when the bike arrived to Sweden Honda said they want to keep it and the bike was taken to Japan. Instead Kenneth got a CR750 from Honda built in Japan, and this bike is now in Norway owner Karl Magnus Watne, which is now restoring it to original. Kenneth was to Honda in Japan 1973 together with some of the best dealers in Sweden. He then was promised a new racer of Honda and after some time it arrived to Gothenburg, unpainted but together with spareparts. He raced it in many races among other  a 6-hours Thruxton in Great Britian.  After a year he was able to buy the bike from Honda, but after some time the bike was stolen from his workshop together with a lot of other things. The police found the stolen things but the bike was disassembled and there was only the frame and one wheel left.

I was a Hondadealer in Sweden during 1966 - 1984, and therefore have this interest in the CR750:s.
 

[Sam Green Racing]

Welcome Benor. A nice first post, keep them coming.
It's good to have someone with first hand knowledge of what went on back in the day.

Sam.