Author Topic: Cb77 question...yes another!  (Read 1896 times)

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Offline bert96

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Cb77 question...yes another!
« on: December 30, 2019, 04:58:08 am »
Hi,

Yes,i asked on the honda305 forum but no answer! ;)
Now, i want to buy a new ignition switch for my cb77 but i,(call me cheap)don't want to pay 400$ for it!
So i was thinking of buying a period correct switch from another Honda. My question is,is there a model who would be easier to install versus another?
There is switch with 2,4,5,6 and 7 wires. Which one should i buy?


Thanks
QA50 1969,ST-90 1974,mb5 1982,rz350 1983,shadow 1100 1985,vf1000f 1985,BMW K1 1990,shadow tourer 1100 2001,vfr 750 1994,vtr250 199?

Offline Bodi

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2020, 12:57:03 pm »
Not super easy to answer adequately. The OEM switch does quite a few things. Plus, how will you mount a replacement non-original keyswitch? The mounting is a bit bizarre, maybe some other Hondas used this switch body but I don't know which. Honda either got the wiring diagram wrong or used wire colors in a very odd way, ie the horn has a black wire to both its power and its grounding button... the black wire also turns into black/red (?).
Anyway... the factory wiring diagram does not include switch contact tables as found on the SOHC4 diagrams, so we have to either guess or measure what connects to what in the 3 positions. I did not measure one, these are guesses.
OFF (CCW stop, key comes out): presumably does not connect any terminals to any others.
ON (middle stop, key retained): Gets complicated but probably connects the battery "+" red wire to the black wire - general key-on power to ignition coils and horn, stop light, etc. Also connects battery to the lighting switch, and finally the tail light (and "parking" lamp) is connected to the lighting switch (see PARK position).
Then there's the rectifier... not sure why it even connects to the CH terminal. A puzzler. It already connects directly to the battery + according to the diagram. If anyone knows, share that secret.
PARK (CW stop, key comes out): Just powers the tail light and "parking" lamp (a small bulb in some headlights). That's so you can park your bike with marker lights on to deter collisions with it, then go to a movie and have a dead battery when you get back. The red BAT wire is connected to the white tail light wire which is also disconnected from the "lighting on" green wire.

To get very basic keyswitch replacement, you need a two terminal on/off switch with two positions, OFF and ON. The red wire to one terminal and all the other wires except white/red, green and white go to the other terminal: you need to splice green directly to white to have the tail light come on with headlight on, wrap some tape around white/red (this connects unfused to battery "+" and if it touches metal... very bad stuff happens).
Everything works in ON, nothing is powered in OFF. That eliminates the PARK function which nobody I know has ever used except to see what it does. You could connect a SPST toggle switch out of sight this way, and keep the keyswitch just for decoration - even continue to use the key as if it did something.

If you use an automotive switch you could connect it to use the start position, but ignore the accessory terminal (and position)... what would you want powered there?

Maybe another 60s Honda bike like a CB450 has a switch with the same mounting and wiring configuration, I don't know. Good luck!

Offline bert96

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2020, 06:52:41 pm »
Thanks for all these informations!


Bert
QA50 1969,ST-90 1974,mb5 1982,rz350 1983,shadow 1100 1985,vf1000f 1985,BMW K1 1990,shadow tourer 1100 2001,vfr 750 1994,vtr250 199?

Offline Can550

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2020, 04:34:16 am »
I bought a 17$ eBay switch (cb350/550 type) and  it is working on my 63 cb77





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Offline bert96

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2020, 04:43:10 am »
Everything works!?! GREAT!!

Oem or generic switch?


Bert
QA50 1969,ST-90 1974,mb5 1982,rz350 1983,shadow 1100 1985,vf1000f 1985,BMW K1 1990,shadow tourer 1100 2001,vfr 750 1994,vtr250 199?

Offline Can550

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2020, 04:47:29 am »
Generic 17$ switch that I had sitting around in emgo box. It’s a three position cb550k switch. Original cb77 is a four position switch.

There’s a way to wire it, if you send me your cell number or e mail, I’ll forward you schematic. OEM switches were crazy expensive but once in a while they do come up cheaper (but still quite a bit) I did secure one for around 100$ but haven’t and may not mount it as long as my modified is working.

Cheers


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Offline bert96

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2020, 04:55:26 am »
Pm sent
QA50 1969,ST-90 1974,mb5 1982,rz350 1983,shadow 1100 1985,vf1000f 1985,BMW K1 1990,shadow tourer 1100 2001,vfr 750 1994,vtr250 199?

Offline Can550

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2020, 05:03:30 am »
Sent you e mail


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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2020, 04:51:21 pm »
Basically: if you wire the bike for Lights On all the time, you don't need the 4-position switch. Those fancy switches connected in the lighting coil from the dynamo when the key was turned to "Night" position to turn on the lights. You will have to wire in the lighting coil, just like if the switch was connecting it. The SuperHawks are the same way. ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2020, 09:31:52 pm »
Everything works!?! GREAT!!

Oem or generic switch?


Bert

I have a generic Ebay switch for a CB350 twin,new in the box if you need one.

I love your avatar bert  8) How many zippers has she worn-out yet ?  ;D
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.

Offline bert96

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2020, 06:06:19 am »
Thanks but i have one here in a box...

I wish this f**##K zipper will break someday! :)

Bert
QA50 1969,ST-90 1974,mb5 1982,rz350 1983,shadow 1100 1985,vf1000f 1985,BMW K1 1990,shadow tourer 1100 2001,vfr 750 1994,vtr250 199?

Offline Bodi

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2020, 06:13:32 pm »
CAN550 - maybe early models are different but I've not seen a CB77 with a 4 position keyswitch. Did they integrate the lighting switch in the keyswitch and go to the bucket mounted lighting switch on later models?
Mine have all had 3 keyswitch positions: off, on, park - with key retained only in on.

Offline flyin_

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2023, 06:52:39 pm »
Generic 17$ switch that I had sitting around in emgo box. It’s a three position cb550k switch. Original cb77 is a four position switch.

There’s a way to wire it, if you send me your cell number or e mail, I’ll forward you schematic. OEM switches were crazy expensive but once in a while they do come up cheaper (but still quite a bit) I did secure one for around 100$ but haven’t and may not mount it as long as my modified is working.

Cheers


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Hi CAN550.  I found this old thread about the CB77 combination switch.  I was wondering if you were still willing/able to share the wiring you used to replace the switch with a CB550 switch?  I have a CB77 and the tail light isn't working.  The light works in the parking position so I think the contact in the switch is bad.  It would be great to see how to replace with a newer switch.
flyin_@hotmail.com
Thanks!
CB750K6
CB750K1/K4
2000 Honda Magna
1965 S65

Offline bert96

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2023, 03:26:57 am »
This is what he give me at that time,

QA50 1969,ST-90 1974,mb5 1982,rz350 1983,shadow 1100 1985,vf1000f 1985,BMW K1 1990,shadow tourer 1100 2001,vfr 750 1994,vtr250 199?

Offline ZillahBill

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2023, 08:28:02 am »
I am rebuilding a 65 CB77 and I am working my way through the wiring.  I think I need a new ignition switch and I am balking at paying the very high price for an OEM when all I want to do is turn the bike on and off.  I am not a wiring expert so I need a step by step.  I would like to hear from someone who has successfully replaced an original CB77 ignition switch with an alternative including where wires attach on the replacement switch.  My light switch is a four wire with just on and off.  Researched several forum and the forum seems closest to the info I need.  Thanks.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2024, 06:52:24 pm »
CAN550 - maybe early models are different but I've not seen a CB77 with a 4 position keyswitch. Did they integrate the lighting switch in the keyswitch and go to the bucket mounted lighting switch on later models?
Mine have all had 3 keyswitch positions: off, on, park - with key retained only in on.
The CB77 I had was the [rare] 1968 model, not a lot of them were built - it's most-visual clue to the genre was that the front of the seat curved upward against the tank, distinctly altering the seat-tank line (it was dubbed the "ball-saver seat" for obvious reasons!). It's 4-position switch was a stretch to turn on the headlight while riding, too. On mine the "PARK" position only worked once in a while, but the battery stayed so low-charged (until I rewound the alternator myself) that I never used it lest I not be able to start it up later! They have a pretty weak 'dynamo' for charging, and the varnish on the wires would crack, causing some of the coils to short out so the system would always be low on charge. I hand-rewound them with the next-smaller American (SAE) wire size (enameled wire) and it performed noticeably better until I sold it to my ex-father-in-law one day. He rode it that way for 5 more years that I knew of.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline grcamna2

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Re: Cb77 question...yes another!
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2024, 07:41:08 pm »
CAN550 - maybe early models are different but I've not seen a CB77 with a 4 position keyswitch. Did they integrate the lighting switch in the keyswitch and go to the bucket mounted lighting switch on later models?
Mine have all had 3 keyswitch positions: off, on, park - with key retained only in on.
The CB77 I had was the [rare] 1968 model, not a lot of them were built - it's most-visual clue to the genre was that the front of the seat curved upward against the tank, distinctly altering the seat-tank line (it was dubbed the "ball-saver seat" for obvious reasons!). It's 4-position switch was a stretch to turn on the headlight while riding, too. On mine the "PARK" position only worked once in a while, but the battery stayed so low-charged (until I rewound the alternator myself) that I never used it lest I not be able to start it up later! They have a pretty weak 'dynamo' for charging, and the varnish on the wires would crack, causing some of the coils to short out so the system would always be low on charge. I hand-rewound them with the next-smaller American (SAE) wire size (enameled wire) and it performed noticeably better until I sold it to my ex-father-in-law one day. He rode it that way for 5 more years that I knew of.

Mark,what did your ex-father-in-law finally do with your/his 68' CB77 Superhawk ?
75' CB400F/'bunch o' parts' & 81' CB125S modded to a 'CB200S'
  I love the small ones too !
Do your BEST...nobody can take that away from you.