Topic: Engine additives - snake oil or magic potion?

[jawntybull]

Now I have my K7 on the road and running sweetly I'm wondering about giving her a good dose of colonic irrigation - well at least the bike equivalent.

I can't find the Seafoam magic elixir here in Aus, but Motul have an oil additive cleaner that you add just before doing a change, and a fuel cleaner that you run through your tank. What are your opinions on these additives or equivalent ones? At $30 a pop I'd want them to work! Snake oil or truly magic?

[ekpent]

For $30.00 if it was up and running really good and not having any issues I think I would not worry about it,pass on the elixer and just drive it.

[nayto550]

Just like anything else, some products are snake oil and others are the real deal.  I personally think the SeaFoam products are the bee's knees.  Particularly the motor treatment and "Deep Creep" penetrating lube.  If they are not available in your area, you can order them through Amazon. 

Marvel's Mystery Oil and AMSOIL Quick Shot are a couple other products that I've had good experiences with.  And a heck of a lot cheaper than $30 if you can get it locally.

[dhall57]

For the most part these these additives and fix it all in a bottle are a total waste of money and all they are designed to do is lighten your wallet. So if your bike is running fine leave it a lone and ride it and keep your money in your pocket.

The only product I have experience with and works for me is MMO. My Chev Silverado was smoking a little bit when first cranked after sitting overnight and was using a qt. of oil every 3000 miles between oil changes witch I know is not really a lot, but now I substitute 1qt MMO at every oil change and no more smoke at cold starts and hardly burns any oil between changes. So I would say this is one of the few products that does work.

[bwaller]

Instead of colonic irrigation, you can remove and clean any sediment from both the oil pan and oil tank. Even with frequent oil & filter changes it's surprising what settles into these areas. It's a bit of work but should be done once in a blue moon!

[KingCustomCycles.com]

MMO is mineral spirits with peppermint extract.  Mystery solved. Worthless.

[dhall57]

It doesn't really matter whats in it and don't really care, I've ran my truck both ways and if I don't use it I have to add a qt. between changes and I have some smoking at cold start ups. If I use it I don't and it doesn't.

[jawntybull]

Instead of colonic irrigation, you can remove and clean any sediment from both the oil pan and oil tank. Even with frequent oil & filter changes it's surprising what settles into these areas. It's a bit of work but should be done once in a blue moon!

I'm planning on pulling the oil pan on the next change - do you need to replace the gasket when you do this?

[Kong]

With very few exceptions they are snake oil.  Mechanics do not come in a can.

[xsmooth69x]

Instead of colonic irrigation, you can remove and clean any sediment from both the oil pan and oil tank. Even with frequent oil & filter changes it's surprising what settles into these areas. It's a bit of work but should be done once in a blue moon!

I'm planning on pulling the oil pan on the next change - do you need to replace the gasket when you do this?

i would like to know this also

[Holden]

Yes, you replace the gasket when you pull the pan.  If it's not that old, it'll probably come off in one piece and you could try re-using it, but it would probably be wiser to replace it.  You should have a new gasket ready when you pull it.

-Just based on my experience...more knowledgeable wrenchers may have a more informed opinion.

[Randy]

doesn't that stuff reck your clutch?..

[Kickstart]

I've got to chime in here with my 2 cents, and say I strongly agree with others that most of them (if not all) of the oil additive products are snake oil.

I have never seen anything more than anecdotal evidence for these products.  I'm sure there are people that swear by some of these products... and maybe there are some useful applications, but I doubt very much there are any real advantages over modern oil.  If there was, I'm sure the companies making and selling these products would have some sort of documented tests proving their claims (ideally by a reputable, independent, testing agency).

I just did a quick browse on the MMO, Sea Foam, and Slick 50 websites... I didn't see anything regarding test results that back up their claims.  Why is that?... Probably because it's not any better than most modern oils (if not worse).  The Mobile 1 site lists a bunch of tests and certifications.  The MMO site has a tab labelled "Marvel Tales"... LOL

I also think it's unrealistic that these smaller companies have invented a product which is better than what multiple large oil companies and car manufacturers have poured tons a money into researching... and have not been approach by one of these major companies to purchase their product or buy out their company.  If  one of these other products was really all that great, I would think we would have seen a partnership with a larger company (Not that I have researched it, but I don't recall any large oil or car manufacturer backing these products).  Additionally, I seem to recall reading somewhere that DuPont does not allow Slick 50 to use the Teflon trade name (the PTFE additive that Slick 50 includes). 

I'm not as familiar with the fuel additives, but I suspect it's pretty much the same story.  Modern name-brand gasolines already include additives - again developed by companies pouring tons of money into researching this stuff and working with car manufacturers to ensure it works.  I noticed the Amsoil web sites does mention some awards and tests (though it's not clear who performed the test)... so maybe they have something there.  I also guess it's possible that these products are the same additives used in normal gasoline, but allowing you to increase the total concentration in your gas tank for a one-time (or periodic) more thorough cleaning.  Still, I would need to see documented proof these products work before I would consider using them.

[Don R]

We used to use marvell on flathead fords with stuck valves. They would usually loosen up in short order. I had a sticky lifter in a chevy 305 once and used some in it. Problem solved. A properly maintained vehicle usually won't be gunked up on the inside but as we all know many folks don't take care of their machines and sometimes a little creative chemistry can help. The new motor oils are far superior to anything we had even 20 years ago. I've seen seafoam used on a slightly gunked up carb. It was a welder that had sat for a long time and wouldn't start. The owner dumped a little seafoam in it, we had a cup of coffee and it started right up. Yep, just like magic.

[Deltarider]

Mechanics do not come in a can.

But mechanics use them cans all the same. As a matter of fact some brands can't be bought by regular consumers but are traded exclusively to cardealers. I'm referring to gaz treatment stuff. Mechanics use them either pure or in a concentrated mix to run the engine at idle and so clean the inlet tract (carbs or injecters) so the car will pass the test. I myself have good results with such a product especially after hibernating. Driveability improved significantly.
I would stay away from oil additives however.

[MRieck]

There are several zinc oil additives which I believe are good products. I also use Star Tron fuel additive which is made to deal specifically with ethanol issues. It has proven to be superior to Stabil and other products in regard to stabilizing fuel, eliminating clogged carbs/injectors.

[MRieck]

Snake Oil

How bout compression in a can

Which products are?

[Skunk Stripe]

Sure, some are snake oil but some do seem to work.
Star-tron gets a lot of positive results as does sea-foam.
kickstart, do you require documents proof for everything? Yeah, didn't think so. I am sure you buy plenty of things that you have no documented proof for other than people you know liking said product.
I have used sea-foam to clean out combustion chambers and clean valve trains after using conventional oil.
No matter how clean your engine burns, it will build deposits up and conventional oil will sludge up to some extent. It happens and it does not reflect on a person.
No one is forcing you to use them. So don't worry about it. Some do use them and they have found things that give them results.

Though I did have an old car the burned some oil, every so often, I would dump in a can of Restore and oil consumption went down. Works for me.

[bwaller]

I have been using a Zn additive lately. Big oil isn't going to be going back to increasing the Zinc content so that is something that makes sense to me.

I've read till I'm blue in the face about stabilizer, there is a need here too.

[MRieck]

I have been using a Zn additive lately. Big oil isn't going to be going back to increasing the Zinc content so that is something that makes sense to me.

I've read till I'm blue in the face about stabilizer, there is a need here too.

Notice all the oil products on the market now that cater to Hot Rods, bikes (vehicles with no catalytic converters). Brad Penn, Royal Purple etc, etc

[Kickstart]

Sure, some are snake oil but some do seem to work.
Star-tron gets a lot of positive results as does sea-foam.
kickstart, do you require documents proof for everything? Yeah, didn't think so. I am sure you buy plenty of things that you have no documented proof for other than people you know liking said product.
I have used sea-foam to clean out combustion chambers and clean valve trains after using conventional oil.
No matter how clean your engine burns, it will build deposits up and conventional oil will sludge up to some extent. It happens and it does not reflect on a person.
No one is forcing you to use them. So don't worry about it. Some do use them and they have found things that give them results.

Though I did have an old car the burned some oil, every so often, I would dump in a can of Restore and oil consumption went down. Works for me.

You are correct, there are some things I use for which I do not require documented proof... I like to have a bowl of chicken soup when I have a cold.  Does it help my cold? who knows... but it makes me feel better.


However, when it comes to putting an oil or gas additive in my bike as a preventative maintenance, I will personally not do this or recommend it to anyone unless I have seen documented proof of it's benefit.  I am also very skeptical on how these products are marketed with qualitative claims backed up by user stories (i.e. "Marvel Tales") instead of quantifiable data.

I do not think less of you or anyone who believes there is a benefit to using these products.  I'm willing to admit there may be useful applications of these products.

However, when someone asks whether or not these products work, I am willing to share my opinion that I strongly believe they are a waste of money.  Especially in jawntybull's situation where his bike is running well.  I see no benefit in using oil or gas additives as a preventative maintenance.  I personally do not believe these work any better then regular oil changes and fresh gas.  Especially oil additives - I believe most are not only a waste of money, but may increase engine wear.

Yes, if you have an engine that's all fouled/gummed/sludged up, then putting a solvent (MMO, SeaFoam, etc.) in your oil and/or gas will probably help clean it up.  But at the same time, there is a risk using solvents will increase wear while it's in your oil.  I think regular oil changes with a quality oil and fresh gas are more than enough as preventative maintenance... and a safer way to go.

Regarding jawntybull's original question, IMHO, I believe he would be much better off in the long run if he put his $30 towards upgrading to synthetic oil instead of buying oil and gas additives.

One product I could maybe see having value is fuel stabilizer for over-winter storage.  As the ethanol is not there for market driven reasons, rather it's in our gas due to special interest politics.  So major gas producers don't really have a choice but to put this ingredient in gas which has proven to cause problems.  However, even here, I'm not actually sure how well these stabilizers work.

... I also use Star Tron fuel additive which is made to deal specifically with ethanol issues. It has proven to be superior to Stabil and other products in regard to stabilizing fuel, eliminating clogged carbs/injectors.

OK... MReick... I would really like to believe this: "proven to be superior to Stabil and other products..."  And I ask this respectfully, can you share what this proof is?



I disagree with this:

...Big oil isn't going to be going back to increasing the Zinc ...

While it is true they have been reducing Zinc content in car oils due to problems with catalytic converters... This is not necessarily true for motorcycle specific oil.  I think you would be better served by buying a quality motorcycle specific oil from a reputable manufacturer.

Here's an interesting link I found on motorcycle oil.  It's published by Amsoil - showing how their motorcycle oil is the best - so while I am a little skeptical, it's well documented with quantifiable data.  It's actually an interesting read on what characteristics make a good motorcycle oil:

http://www.alternative-energy-resources.net/support-files/g2156-study_motorcycle.pdf


Regarding power/performance booster gas additives, I found this study by Which (I beleive England's equivalent to ConsumerReports) - however I didn't read the actual report as I don't have an account - but I believe their conclusion was they were all a waste of money:

http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/car-running-costs/can-fuel-additives-save-you-money/

[Terry in Australia]

The OP is an Aussie, and sadly a lot of the products mentioned here aren't available here in Oz, but I've used one brand that I'm happy to recommend, "Pro-Ma".

Their fuel treatment is excellent, I regularly use it in my bikes and in my dad's old "unleaded" ford and triumph cars and I've noticed cleaner burning, easier start up and better fuel economy with regular use.

Pro-Ma also do a brilliant oil treatment, but sadly it's too slippery for oil bathed clutches, which is a shame, because I've used it with outstanding results in old cars.

I bought an old Ford (well, it was 8 years old when I bought it 20 years ago) and I got it cheap because it was blowing smoke and down in compression on #6 cylinder. I was working part time at a gas station and needed a cheap car and my boss did the compression test as part of the VACC check I stipulated with the car dealer. The car dealer wasn't prepared to fix it, but he dropped the price by 500 bucks, and my boss assured me that he could replace the engine for that much, so I bought it.

About the same time, a Pro-Ma seller dropped into the gas station and offered a free demonstration of his products, which turned into him treating my ford for free. After a month it had stopped smoking, so my boss did another compression check, and all cylinders were up a few pounds, and well within 10% of each other. Also, he had to drop the idle by 100 RPM or so, (carb, not EFI) as the idle had come right up, as a result of the reduced friction on all bearings etc.

I'm happy to recommend Pro-Ma, and I'd use it in my CB750's in a heartbeat, if it wasn't for the oil bathed clutch. I used it in my BMW K100RT and K1100LT, and once again, both were high mileage bikes, but they both ran like swiss watches, on the cheapest (K Mart) oil.

I recently found Stabil here in Oz and I've treated all my gas tanks with it as i don't ride as much as I'd like over winter, and my Yoshimura equipped Suzuki GS1000 particularly is prone to all sorts of problems if the gas is just slightly "flat", but to be honest, I haven't fired any of them up since I treated them, so I've no idea how well that stuff works. Cheers, Terry. 

[cb750f-2010656]

doesn't that stuff reck your clutch?..

I put Lucas in my 750 and my GS500 once.....  Swelled the plates and made them both drag HARD.  It would just about stall that poor little GS.

[Terry in Australia]

doesn't that stuff reck your clutch?..

I put Lucas in my 750 and my GS500 once.....  Swelled the plates and made them both drag HARD.  It would just about stall that poor little GS.

I had the same problem with Valvoline XLD in my Kawasaki Z1 back in the early 1980's, the only way I could ride it was by giving it the berries and dumping the clutch, which resulted in some scary wheelies! I replaced it with "Mobil Super Drop" and it was good again within a few days. I've never used Valvoline since. Cheers, Terry.

[dave500]

 ah the old friction modified super drop,my X2 hr wagon never felt better.
Mobil Super Drop Oil 1985