Author Topic: (SOLVED 8.21.11) First hiway ride problems cb550  (Read 9844 times)

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Offline Tews19

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2011, 09:23:31 PM »
If you have an 18 mm thin walled socket and was able to get number 2 out but not 3.... Your PO may have cross threaded... I am not sure what else to tell you.. May want to wait and have someone who is knowledgable in this to take a look..
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2011, 11:29:09 PM »
The Honda toolkit spark plug tool was shaped the way was for a reason.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2011, 02:59:40 AM »
Im hoping its not cross threaded....i cant even get the socket to drop in the slot
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2011, 03:00:58 AM »
And again im talkin the one under my right leg. Were toolkits attached to a side covrr?
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline sinister902

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2011, 05:11:11 AM »
tool kits used to be under the seat on the lid of the factory airbox. I know its tight to get the socket in for cyl 3, but I've gotten it with a standard 18mm socket and then I put a swivel extension on it to be able to use the rachet. having the front wheel turned out of the way is helpful as well.

get plugs in there and do a Plug Chop if it lets you. take a camera with you and photograph the tips of the plugs and post them here with what cylinder they came out of so we can help you diagnose.

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2011, 06:35:56 AM »
Will do.
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline TwoTired

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2011, 08:55:13 AM »
And again im talkin the one under my right leg. Were toolkits attached to a side covrr?

The 75 CB550 K models had tool kits on a tray under the seat.
The CB550 F model has a storage compartment for them in the seat way at the back.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2011, 02:45:25 PM »
Got it off. Here it is in order pre jet swap

 
 
 
 

4 looks good, the others have too much carbon. Glad I went to a smaller jey size (120 to 110)
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2011, 02:46:57 PM »
Whats my next step? Take her on the hiway again? Or are there some good garage tests?
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline sinister902

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #59 on: August 18, 2011, 03:15:49 PM »
1/2/3 look rich, 2 is ESPECIALLY rich. now that you did a jet swap, if your carbs are synched go do another plug chop and see where your at. you want paper-bag-brown colored tips on the plugs.

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #60 on: August 18, 2011, 03:18:47 PM »
Do you think this could of impacted my hihhway speeds and the stuttering?
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline TwoTired

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2011, 03:42:20 PM »
The carbon fouling will certainly make it stutter.
I would be concerned that not all plugs show the same deposit pattern.  You'll have to get them all the same before settling on a jet size or needle adjustment.

What is different among the carbs?
Is the compression the same for all cylinders?
Are all the tappets adjusted equally?
Are all your filters breathing the same?
Is the float height or more importantly the fuel level in each carb bowl the same?
Are the carbs vacuum balanced?

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Sdsbassist

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  • Gus, Austin, MN.
Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2011, 03:07:35 PM »
Needle meaning from the slide?

I put in new plugs and got black soot with 110 jets. Adjusted air screw mix to 1 and a half, 1 and .5 turns all with black plugs the result. What might I be doing wrong?

What is the standard jet size for this bike? Argggggggggggh
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2011, 03:26:09 PM »
Im such a dumbass. You unscrew to lean it. I went the other way
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline TwoTired

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #64 on: August 19, 2011, 04:11:51 PM »
Needle meaning from the slide?

Yes, slide needle, jet needle, throttle valve needle are all synonyms.

Are you aware there are three fuel metering paths, in the carbs?  Each one dominates in turn, dependent on throttle position.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #65 on: August 19, 2011, 04:15:17 PM »
Yes. Ive been trying to read as much as I can. Its amazing how frustrating it can be when you wanna ride....and bad! The black plugs are driving me crazy. I thinkall else is well.
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #66 on: August 19, 2011, 07:52:24 PM »
So tried at 2 turns, 2.5 turns and 3 turns. All plugs still came out black as hell. Just did the plug chop at idle. Still no good. What are the standard jet sizes? Maybe im still too rich? Let me answer these questions:


What is different among the carbs? nothing anymore
Is the compression the same for all cylinders? yes
Are all the tappets adjusted equally? doing this tomorrow
Are all your filters breathing the same? should have been. Cleaned all of them tonight and letting dry
Is the float height or more importantly the fuel level in each carb bowl the same? should be. Adjusted to 22mm
Are the carbs vacuum balanced? yes

I also looked at the points, but honestly had a difficult time with the instructions they gave about what point you adjust 1 and 4 then 2 and 3.

I appreciate all the help i've been given...

Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline jneuf

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #67 on: August 19, 2011, 09:06:13 PM »
Stock jets should be #100

'75 CB400f

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #68 on: August 19, 2011, 09:09:41 PM »
W
Ill do tappets and points tomorrow
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline Sdsbassist

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  • Gus, Austin, MN.
Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2011, 06:35:33 AM »
So, got on it this morning. How do I know when cylinder one (under my left leg while riding) is at TDC?
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2011, 08:43:00 AM »
Ok,figured it out. Adjusted valves, looks good. Adjusted points to spec. Havenot timed ignition yet. With the plugs and stuttering after running im startingto doubt the ignition is my main issue but its good to do anyways. Whats the difference between using a light gun and the 12v light as prescribed in the manual?
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2011, 08:59:12 AM »
Twotired had a charton page 2 that showed what fuel issues went into play at rpms.

Using this, and getting black plugs at idle leads me to believe my jets are not the issue. Since I adjusted the air screw and no change. Maybe the IMS as listed on the chart? What is an IMS? My needle position (set at standard) sjould have no affect at idle, correct?

Aorry about all the posts....i think outloud
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 09:02:48 AM by Sdsbassist »
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline TwoTired

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2011, 09:49:59 AM »
IMS = Idle Mixture Screw  (PD carbs have such a screw)
The earlier Cb550 carbs just have an air screw.

Have you found an explanation for why the spark plug deposits are different among the cylinders?
If it was just a jetting issue, they would all be the same.  And, I expect you will never solve the problem with just fuel metering adjustments.

What do you know of the history of the carbs?  Is there a chance someone other than Honda was inside and meddling with them?

Some possibilities:
--Non-Honda internal parts. (What number is on the needle jet?)

--Altered internal parts. (Drilled/bent/corroded)

--Mains emulsion tube holes blocked gummed.  (Many overlook this important cleaning, as it doesn't naturally fall out of the carb body when the main jet is removed.  And, it must be driven out from the slide needle end.)

--Air jets dirty altered or missing.  (There is one for the mains emulsion tube cavity and another for the Pilot circuit that the air screw regulates.)

-- Carb body passageways corroded and restricting flow.

--Bowl fuel levels aren't the same in each carb.

These are all details of carb function that are often overlooked in the rush to go riding.

Do understand that the idle settings must be slightly over-rich.  This is necessary to have engine response to throttle twist.  You can normally expect this aspect of operation to suffer when pods are installed.  But, right now you have to figure out why all four carbs aren't delivering the same mixture ratios.

Cheers,


Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Sdsbassist

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2011, 10:10:47 AM »
Good point. When I went through the 2nd third and 4th tests, the plugs were the same with a light covering of soot. I suppose there is somethingi might of missed with the cleaning. However, it would suprise me that I would miss it on every carb. Which led me down the possibility of ignition and timing.

The history is a mystery. one thing I did notice is that the carb boots to the motor are worn and wrapped with electrical tape. Issue?
Gus, Austin, MN.
Current Bike:  75 750F

Past bikes: 76 750K - "Iowa Blue",78 750K Craigslist find - "Black Beth;" 77 CB750K Basketcase, with a 75K engine; 1970 Cb750 K1, "Rosa Luxembourg"
74 cb750, 75 cb550, 77 kawa 650, 81 virago 750, 83 virago 920, 80 Honda Twinstar 200, 71 Honda CT70, 1971 Honda CB750 Rat Project "Black Dahlia Bitsa"

Offline TwoTired

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Re: First hiway ride problems cb550
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2011, 10:28:43 AM »
The history is a mystery. one thing I did notice is that the carb boots to the motor are worn and wrapped with electrical tape. Issue?
If they are leaking, yes.

Are you saying you did or did not clean the emulsion tubes behind the main jet?
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.