Author Topic: Air filter question (Read 3603 times)

Cowboy48 · « **on:** May 01, 2006, 07:53:19 PM »

Is there a difference, other than cosmetic, between pod filters and stock?

csendker · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2006, 08:01:11 PM »

Yes. Pods breath easier, effectively leaning out the mixture. Changing to pods often requires re-jetting the carbs to compensate.

scunny · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2006, 08:01:46 PM »

Pod fiters should be capable of allowing more air thru and they look good.
Downside, you must be prepared to get to know your carbs, they can require rejetting.

scunny · « **Reply #3 on:** May 01, 2006, 08:03:12 PM »

bugger------- see above

TwoTired · « **Reply #4 on:** May 01, 2006, 11:18:45 PM »

Pods also allow individual carbs to be come rich or lean due to bike aerodynamics and leg position, as movement through air creates turbulence, meaning high and low pressure areas at different parts of the bike. Carburetors are very much affected by these atmospheric changes.

The stock airbox provides one common source for air, that hopefully, the Honda engineers placed in a relatively calm area of the bike.

Pod filters don't last forever and clog with use. Then you have to either clean all four or replace them. Oh boy, 4X maintenance!

Cheap, or poorly engineered pods, flow worse at certain air velocities than the stock filters, as the filtering element creates turbulence right at the mouth of the carb. The stock filter position is well upstream in the air flow and the air plenum has flow straighteners to greatly reduce carburetor air turbulence that can effect mixtures at different engine speeds.

Pod filters usually leave the rear of the carbs unsupported.

Pod filters seldom have any provision for engine crankcase vapors. Depending on the year of the bike, the stock airbox allows the engine to burn these hydrocarbons instead of making them available to settle in the lungs of living beings. Did you know? Hydrocarbons are carcinogenic. Pod people are apparently invulnerable. In the future, drive by poisonings will probably be illegal.

Lots of people like to throw away good engineering for that custom look or simply copy what that other guy did.

Cheers,

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #5 on:** May 02, 2006, 02:04:14 AM »

Also, assuming the airbox and filter element have been properly installed and maintained, the stock paper filter offers the best "filtering" of any of the alternatives.

KB02 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2006, 05:33:25 AM »

Quote from: TwoTired on May 01, 2006, 11:18:45 PM

Pods also allow individual carbs to be come rich or lean due to bike aerodynamics and leg position, as movement through air creates turbulence, meaning high and low pressure areas at different parts of the bike. Carburetors are very much affected by these atmospheric changes.
The stock airbox provides one common source for air, that hopefully, the Honda engineers placed in a relatively calm area of the bike.
Pod filters don't last forever and clog with use. Then you have to either clean all four or replace them. Oh boy, 4X maintenance!
Cheap, or poorly engineered pods, flow worse at certain air velocities than the stock filters, as the filtering element creates turbulence right at the mouth of the carb. The stock filter position is well upstream in the air flow and the air plenum has flow straighteners to greatly reduce carburetor air turbulence that can effect mixtures at different engine speeds.
Pod filters usually leave the rear of the carbs unsupported.
Pod filters seldom have any provision for engine crankcase vapors. Depending on the year of the bike, the stock airbox allows the engine to burn these hydrocarbons instead of making them available to settle in the lungs of living beings. Did you know? Hydrocarbons are carcinogenic. Pod people are apparently invulnerable. In the future, drive by poisonings will probably be illegal.
Lots of people like to throw away good engineering for that custom look or simply copy what that other guy did.
Cheers,

Not that you have a string opinion on the matter.

volthause · « **Reply #7 on:** May 02, 2006, 07:37:20 AM »

Damn. Now I feel like an ass for running pods.

eldar · « **Reply #8 on:** May 02, 2006, 08:23:49 AM »

Not only the aspects of what tt stated but pods require more work not only to get them to work properly but just in general. This is also harder on your manifold rubbers, you know the ones, they cost like $16 each. You will also spend a lot on pods, if you are smart enough to at least get the K&N pods.

I guess my opinion is that pods do not provide enough of a performance increase for all the trouble they cause and can cause. Paint your airbox a flashy color and put in an Uni filter.

scondon · « **Reply #9 on:** May 02, 2006, 08:44:54 AM »

On a stock bike I agree with the airbox people, you get good performance throughout the rpm range and at high speed. I tried monkeying with pods and eventually went back to the airbox w/ K&N filter(single piece) inside. Then I bored the engine to 836, hotter cam and less restrictive exhaust. Pods became a must and I got to know my carbs

Big difference between K&N pods and cheaper types. I don't have near the problems of turbulence with K&N that I had with other pod brands.

eldar · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2006, 08:51:03 AM »

If you need more air, you can also drill holes in your airbox at certain areas where more air can come in and still go through the filter. These holes are generally un-noticable.

Cowboy48 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 02, 2006, 04:22:52 PM »

I'm still a little unclear if tt thinks I should install pods or not...

Seriously, I have no desire to add complications to this project so I will just stick with the airbox.

I did notice that when I took my plugs out that the engine appears to be running rich. Black, dry carbon looking buildup on the electrode. Not horribly bad but certainly not a light brown. I also noticed a fair amount of buildup in the exhaust port when I had the pipes off. How much of that is normal? I really just want to get the air filter/ carbs/ pipes jetting right so I can just hop on it and ride. I would guess that my bogging under heavy throttle would be at least partly do to the rich condition???

TwoTired · « **Reply #12 on:** May 02, 2006, 06:39:48 PM »

Cowboy48,
Bear in mind that your bike idles very rich in order to achieve good off-idle throttle response. So, prolonged idling will carbon up the plugs and pipes. Operation above 1/3 throttle should begin to burn off the soot on the plugs, assuming the mixture is good at those throttle positions and the air filter isn't getting clogged with dirt and making more restriction than is should. A good highway cruise, or a bit of stoplight Grand Prix, should clean up those plugs. In other words, don't baby it, flog it. The bike actually likes that. And, some people think that is fun, too!

If you think your "bogging" (whatever that really means) is due to a rich mixture, temporarily remove your air filter to see if the symptoms are relieved or worsened. Air filter removal should generally lean the mixture. Alternately, partial choke application will make the whole range richer. If your "bogging" lessens with partial choke, you need to make your carbs run richer.

Have I mentioned? You will never be able to snap the throttle wide open from idle position without "bogging".

It should, however accept one half remaining throttle changes with good acceleration.

For KB02:
I try to form opinions after gathering as many facts about an issue as I can. Hopefully, others can make use of that information, too.

For volthause:
My apologies, that was not my intention. I was merely trying to inform. I must say it is to your credit that you care.

Cheers,

Cowboy48 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 02, 2006, 07:49:50 PM »

Thanks for all the info tt. As with a lot of sounds and smells it is pretty darn difficult to accurately describe them using only a keyboard. By "Bogging" I mean that at 55mph I cant reasonably open it to full throttle with out a deep sound that I can only describe as "Bogging" along with a sputtering flow of power until it eventually clears itself and comes up to speed. I cannot imagine this bike ever getting above 90mph with the way it is right now. I have good power at low to mid speeds. I have not run the bike since I removed the air filter which I found was very, very dirty. I just got the bike a month ago and simply could not resist riding it for a couple weeks. I have since changed the oil, ordered a new air filter, redone some wiring and will replace the chain before it goes back on the road. Thanks again for your very helpful input.

jdpas29 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 02, 2006, 09:30:24 PM »

PODS ARE THE DEVIL, BOBBY!!!

Noel · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2006, 10:39:27 PM »

Quote

Damn. Now I feel like an ass for running pods.

Hell, I'm running stacks. Think I'll go hang myself now.

volthause · « **Reply #16 on:** May 03, 2006, 11:50:33 AM »

Quote from: TwoTired on May 02, 2006, 06:39:48 PM

For volthause:
My apologies, that was not my intention. I was merely trying to inform. I must say it is to your credit that you care.

Cheers,

Oh, I know you didn't intend any insult, and I really didn't take it as one. To your credit, you made me think about it in ways that I haven't before. I'm not rushing out to replace my airbox, but I am going to see what I can do to engineer a soloution that will remain an unrestrictive inlet, but still recirculate the crankcase fumes back to the intake.

jwalters · « **Reply #17 on:** May 03, 2006, 12:21:29 PM »

I replaced my airbox because everytime I met a girl at a bar, and told her I ride a 1972 Honda CB750 K2. The first question out of her mouth was, "Do you use pods or airbox?". For the longest time, I could only reply "airbox". This had a huge impact on my social life, and soon left with no female friends.

Finally, one day I read an article in Maxim about guys who switched to pods and had much more success in their careers, sports, family life and meeting women in night clubs, I decided it was time for a change. Once, I made the jump to pods, I met wonderful women, fell into a promotion, lost weight and won the lottery. Take if from me, pods are the way to go.

It also forced me to learn my carbs inside and out, which I honestly looked forward to. I think I can swap jets, adjust needle position, and carb sync in about as much time as it took for the girl to laugh "airbox" and walk away.

Jesse

Noel · « **Reply #18 on:** May 03, 2006, 12:22:45 PM »

Yes, but how many cylinders do you have?

volthause · « **Reply #19 on:** May 03, 2006, 01:06:29 PM »

well now i'm a bit torn....

Green550F · « **Reply #20 on:** May 03, 2006, 04:07:31 PM »

Well if you read it in MAXIM! Wait, that magazine has words?

eldar · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2006, 09:26:34 AM »

If you are reading maxim, you are just a beginner! That rag is just a baby step on the ladder of women! Most of those chicks are going to be the crotchrocket type anyways! They like to go fast but have no real skill or technique!

VitaminCB550 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2006, 10:02:11 AM »

Maxim. Pods. Sportbike kind? Yeah. People ask - sportbike or cruiser? I say old, loud, and quick. Chicks dig vintage... I'm living proof. Well, me and that cheerleader from my school.

jwalters · « **Reply #23 on:** May 04, 2006, 10:45:53 AM »

Amen!

Quote from: VitaminCB550 on May 04, 2006, 10:02:11 AM

Maxim. Pods. Sportbike kind? Yeah. People ask - sportbike or cruiser? I say old, loud, and quick. Chicks dig vintage... I'm living proof. Well, me and that cheerleader from my school.

beantown · « **Reply #24 on:** May 11, 2006, 01:29:24 AM »

1975 750F Supersport

I have a 75 750F SS and I switched from the stock airbox to K&N pods about 6 weeks ago. Worth every penny! I bought them before I read all the arguements about airbox vs. pods. I was pretty discouraged that they may not work and I had wasted my money. I almost put the stock airbox back in and returned the pods but I figured what the hell and installed them anyway. Result? Bike ran like #$%*. I had just installed new plugs so after a little bit I pulled a couple and they were stark white so I knew it was running way lean. I julled the jets and installed #135's in place of the stock #105 jets. Then I advanced my timing a bit and adjusted my valves and cam chain. Result? Best the bike has ever run and I put roughly 10,000 miles on my bike per season. I also run a 4 - 1 mac pipe. I actrually had to change the sprocket on the rear because I started to redline and the bike still had more to go and I can still pop the front wheel going from 1st to second. I have since found the new top the speed to be just over 130 MPH (previously if I could get 121 MPH on a really long stretch I was doin' good). When driving normally I am getting 140 miles on the main tank before reserve (previously getting 120 - 130). The lesson I have learned is that sometimes people are just negative. Dont be affraid to tinker with performance, If it doesn't work just put it back the way it was before you started.

I ride with a buddy that has a 2000 Honda Magna and our bikes are perfectly matched mile for mile. Not bad for a 25 year old bike. last year I did a 4000 mile ride with 5 friends, 2 Harleys, 2 Hondas and a BMW. The hondas were definatley the best of the group. The $25000 Harleys (a Road King and a Softtail) could barely hand when we hit any long straits or twistys. The guy on the Softtail said the first thing he does is go to a Harley dealer and find out why his bike just got smoked for 4000 miles by a 30 year old Honda. I told him it's because Honda makes a better bike.

News:

Author Topic: Air filter question (Read 3603 times)

Cowboy48

eldar

eldar

Cowboy48

Cowboy48

eldar

VitaminCB550

beantown