Author Topic: Best Air Filter Option  (Read 8309 times)

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Offline CafeWild34

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Best Air Filter Option
« on: August 08, 2011, 04:57:12 AM »
What is my best air filter option? I have nothing right now so anything is bettter than what I have. Shoould I use a stock air box, pods or velocity stacks. I've seen alot of negative feedback on pods so i'm thinkin those aren'tt a good way to go. I didn't know if velocity stacks were just as bad or better than pods. Dime City has some pretty sweet ones. Thanks for any help.

Offline ekpent

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2011, 04:58:31 AM »
What bike?? If a 750 use stock airbox and a KN filter.

Offline Johnie

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2011, 05:50:53 AM »
I always opt for the OEM air box with OEM filter. I want my set ups to be totally stock as I figure the jetting and all specs were designed for the OEM systems. Then if something does not run right I at least know it is not the air box system.
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Offline vames

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2011, 06:06:16 AM »
A semantical nitpick, I know, but velocity stacks are NOT air filters. They are actually a lack of air filters.

Offline dtmmil

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2011, 06:30:31 AM »
I run steel dragon performance v-stacks, they have a screen that covers the throat of the carb.
http://www.steeldragonperformance.com/products_2.html
he also makes a breadbox type air  cleaner if you want to stay more stock. I personally think the stock airbox is big and ugly. my .02

Offline CafeWild34

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2011, 11:39:20 AM »
SSrry i forgot to mention I have a 74 cb550. I guess that may come in handy. I like the look ofthose air boxes on the steel dragon site but it says they are for cb750's.

Offline dtmmil

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2011, 12:58:07 PM »
He should be able to make them work for the 550 also I would think, send him an email, his name is Mike, good guy to work with. He will do what he can to help.

Offline coldwave007

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 01:55:08 PM »
You're better of getting it to stock, riding it, then seeing if you want to tweak it from there. 
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Offline cb550inct

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 02:09:43 PM »
I have a 78 550k. I changed they exhaust and the jetting and found my bike works better with the Uni- Replacement air filter nu- 4055. Kepp in mind if you buy the uni, get the filter oil kit.

And if you keeping the stock exhaust, keep everything stock including the filter.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2011, 07:45:00 PM »
I run steel dragon performance v-stacks, they have a screen that covers the throat of the carb.
http://www.steeldragonperformance.com/products_2.html
he also makes a breadbox type air  cleaner if you want to stay more stock. I personally think the stock airbox is big and ugly. my .02

Form over function again, V stacks will allow your engine to wear out faster, the screens only keep out dirt larger than the actual screen, their breadbox is built for looks as well. The best filter solution for the SOHC/4's is the original airbox and velocity stacks. Forum member Tintop has had some very good filters made up that incorporate the proper length velocity stacks, they are purpose built to work correctly, Everything else is a compromise.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=79491.525        Tintops air filter.....
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Offline dtmmil

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2011, 05:50:01 AM »
I understand about the stock airbox may be being the best option, but they are also ugly, big, clumsy to work with, and again don't look good. So I was giving options that I pefer. The breadbox he makes has a filter in it, may not be the stock POS, but its a filter, and is an option for someone who wants their bike to be other then bone stock.

Offline vames

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2011, 06:04:33 AM »
I understand about the stock airbox may be being the best option, but they are also ugly, big, clumsy to work with, and again don't look good.

If you take the time to get your bike running well with pods or stacks and you like the way it looks and you can handle the potential for increased wear on your engine from reduced filtration, then you should go for it.

If you can't get it to run smooth with beautiful pods or stacks, you have to consider how it "looks" to have your bike stumble and wheeze when you take off from a red light or when you crack the throttle from 1/4 to 1/2.

Not trying to fan the flames, just saying that pods and stacks should only be considered by those that have the knowledge and time to rework their setup to accomodate, which may not be a trivial task. 

Offline m in sc

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2011, 06:26:50 AM »
^ i have to disagree with part of this statement. the likely hood of an airbox letting particulate into a motor is greater than individual filters. there are lots more potential leak areas in an airbox assembly, especially one thats designed as the cb one is.
if you use good filters, its not an issue. most of my bikes are 2-strokes, dirt contamination is deadly on one, and all of them run individual foam uni filters(mostly because the carbs are so big the airbox is not an option anymore)  or k&n's.

that being said, jetting for pods is not that hard, especially on a 4-stroke. what causes the biggest loss is the stack in the bellmouth, that needs to be replicated to keep the airspeed high and directed as it comes across the mouth of the carb and the jet tube. k&n makes filters with internal stacks.. this would probably be your best bet when deviating from the stock airbox on these bikes IMHO.

as a side note.. my stock box is on my bike and im okay w/that, but i understand wanting to change it out. I may do that down the road....

Offline chickenman_26

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2011, 06:31:28 AM »
I understand about the stock airbox may be being the best option, but they are also ugly, big, clumsy to work with, and again don't look good. So I was giving options that I pefer. The breadbox he makes has a filter in it, may not be the stock POS, but its a filter, and is an option for someone who wants their bike to be other then bone stock.
Most of us prefer small and sexy to big and ugly, especially when it comes to women. But like women, small and sexy air "filters" often create more problems than they solve. And they usually can't cook. If the appearance is what's most important to you, then you'll be choosing to deal with the unintended consequences... like difficult tuning and a free bore job to second oversize from the filth that enters.

Stu
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Offline dtmmil

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2011, 06:38:07 AM »
Ok, been running stacks for about 40,000 miles now, some gravel, well I live on gravel, so at least 2 miles a day, still have good compression, hasn't changed since I started riding the bike. My bike runs better now, and I get better MPG then I ever did with the stock airbox. I have taken the time to tune to the stacks, no hesitations, no flat spots, runs good. I run the 78k carbs on mine, 3" steel dragon v-stacks, 115 jets and 45 pilots, fuel screws out about 1 turn, champion RA6HC plugs(never have any luck with NGK junk) among other mods, I get right around 45mpg at 65mph, use to get less then 40 with the stock box, and I have gotten just over 50 at times depending on conditions. So I guess if I am going to wear out my motor faster with the stacks, how long do they generally last? 

Offline chickenman_26

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2011, 07:03:24 AM »
Ok, been running stacks for about 40,000 miles now, some gravel, well I live on gravel, so at least 2 miles a day, still have good compression, hasn't changed since I started riding the bike. <snip> So I guess if I am going to wear out my motor faster with the stacks, how long do they generally last?
You either live a charmed life, or you aren't being completely honest with us. How many years have you been riding this VJM with open stacks to accumulate 40,000 miles? Would you remove the air filter element from your car and run with open carb or throttle body? Probably not, right? Can't tell you how long the motor will last, but try this - next time you change the air filter in your car, whack the used one with your hand and watch the dust cloud that comes out. All of that would have gone through the cylinders and intake guides without the filter. If you consider that meaningless, then so be it. The manufacturers didn't develop these filter boxes because they were inexpensive to design and produce. Just the opposite. Engine longevity is the prime consideration.

Stu
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bollingball

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2011, 08:08:54 AM »
Stu good point I bet all these stack guys have filters in there car or truck how do you spell hypocrite.

mrjack55

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2011, 08:15:21 AM »
Stu good point I bet all these stack guys have filters in there car or truck how do you spell hypocrite.

Wait, wait...hold on! 
I'm getting some popcorn and a beer.  This should be good.  ::)

I figure we might get 5 more posts before the moderator locks this thread.  Make um count!

Offline vames

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2011, 08:20:05 AM »
All these years with hundreds of millions of vehicles, it was all just a scam perpetrated by the greedy air filter industry and its powerful Washington lobby. Don't bow down to these money grubbing air filter manufacturers -- let your engine breathe free and get rid of your air filters!

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2011, 11:38:38 AM »
Paint is a functional part.  It provides a barrier between a material that can oxidize (such as steel), and the elements that work to convert it into a non-functional part.  Paint has a visual component to it, that may or may not please a particular human eye.  Changing the color doesn't effect how the part that was coated functions in the machine.

And engine will jam air borne particulates between piston and cylinder walls scouring both for increased wear.  It was determined long ago that the wear increases with the particulates quantity and type found in the air ingested.
Manufacturers can't control where the machine will be operated.  So, a device that "conditions" the air to remove engine damaging particulates is included with the machine, so the manufacturer's predictions of engine life can be realized, while reducing warranty claims.  They certainly didn't put an expensive air filter on there without darned good reasons of economy, reliability, and longevity.
How many nuts and bolts can you feed the velocity stack on a running engine?  Nuts and bolts are particulates too, just bigger.
But, if you only operate a machine with velocity stacks in a "clean room" environment, then you certainly don't "need" an air filter at all.

Given that a filter would be included with the machine, carburetors were adjusted to deliver proper fuel mixtures with their functional parameters and presence included.  They are thus tailored to each other.  Changing the "looks" of the air filter, also changes the function of the air filter.  In this case a "style change" is also a functional engineering change, quite unlike changing the color of the paint on the machine.

It is "simple" to adapt the carb's fuel metering with an air filter change using a dynamometer to load the engine at every operational RPM and read the exhaust gas content on an instrument specific for that task.  Then change the carb's internals to correct deviation's from ideal.  Then do another machine test on a dyno to verify desired changes.  Repeat until the "fuel map" reads as desired.

There are other ways; guess and try with a test track, reading spark plug deposits, tinkering until you get tired of the exercise, or sell the machine to someone else who becomes enamoured with "looks" over proper function.

I understand about the stock airbox may be being the best option, but they are also ugly, big, clumsy to work with, and again don't look good.
Perhaps consider that using the word "ugly" says more about you than the main discussion subject.

I found an urban dictionary defining "ugly".  Here are some excerpts for all to enjoy.  (I did not just make this up.)  ;D

--- A word used by arrogant #$%*s to make them seem like they are the most beautiful person ever and the person that they are calling "ugly" as a lower lifeform.

--- A very harsh word to use, but usually only an opinion anyway. I think someone that calls another person ugly is ugly themselves!

--- A term one would call something when one doesn't see the beauty in things.
"The sunset is so ugly!"

"Only in your perspective.."

In the end, the "best air filter option" is the one that best suits your goals.  What were those, again?
Max seat/riding time?
Best photo op?
Be stylish?
Whatever is most popular?
1/4 mile operation?
Ride it anywhere?
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline dtmmil

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2011, 11:52:50 AM »
Ok, again my stacks have a very fine screen covering the throat of the carb, and I have had the bike(motor) for about 6yrs now, I ride to work in the summer 4-5-6 days a week, plus if I get any other ride time. I generally start riding in late april and have ridden till december. The last 3yrs the motor has been in its current rigid frame. I do not ride with no filter, it may not be an ideal filter setup, but its not open either. Could it be better, probably, but it works for me, and has for the last 40,000 miles! And I guess my term Ugly for the stock airbox is being criticized also, another word I guess I could have used is less attractive, not as appealing to me as some other types of airboxes or setups.  I guess if you don't believe, or trust me on my mileage I put on thats fine, but my reasoning for having/building a bike was to ride it, not wash it and let it sit in the garage.

and VJM? what does that mean?

mrjack55

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2011, 02:51:34 PM »

and VJM? what does that mean?

Very Juicy Melons?  No?   ;D




Okay, okay...Vintage Japanese Motorcycle

Offline dtmmil

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2011, 03:01:36 PM »

and VJM? what does that mean?

Very Juicy Melons?  No?   ;D

haha, thanks, pretty obvious now that you posted!



Okay, okay...Vintage Japanese Motorcycle

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2011, 04:03:05 PM »
Well considering that this thread is about the best air filter option and V stacks aren't a filter i won't waste the OP's time refuting what dtmmil has posted. The stock airbox and Tintops filter are the only filters that i can currently find that work PROPERLY on a SOHC street bike. Most pods don't have V stacks so their air flow is disturbed and not correct , effecting the way the bike runs, there are hundreds of threads here that will confirm that. I will also say that i think there are a lot of guys here that don't realise how well these bikes go when set up properly and are quite happy to ride around with their form over function mods and thats fine but it annoys me when guys try to convince all and sundry that these cheap and nasty replacement parts work as well as the stock box or something that has been engineered to work properly, unlike most pods' and stacks. Remember that you are going to ride on the street, not flat out at a track so you want a filter system that works accordingly. If you don't care how well your bike can run and just want what ever you perceive looks better then do what you want, if you want the best running bike you can possibly have then source something proven to work.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Best Air Filter Option
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2011, 04:09:14 PM »
Quote
that being said, jetting for pods is not that hard, especially on a 4-stroke. what causes the biggest loss is the stack in the bellmouth, that needs to be replicated to keep the airspeed high and directed as it comes across the mouth of the carb and the jet tube. k&n makes filters with internal stacks.. this would probably be your best bet when deviating from the stock airbox on these bikes IMHO.

Even the K&N are a compromise and almost impossible to get perfect for the street, they are just not designed for that, the stock box is. Like i said earlier, Tintop has had a filter designed by a company in England that build filter systems for formula 1 cars, Terry in Australia has tested it on his K1 836 bike and says that it is the only aftermarket filter system that has ever worked " PROPERLY" on his bikes other than the stock box, he has had over 20 of these bikes and so have I.  This filter looks great and incorporates the stock V stack specifications, check them out......

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=79491.525
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.