Topic: CB500: Starter or battery?

[Scott S]

 My CB500 has always been a little cold natured and hard to start. I've just about figured out "The Sequence" and can get her going fairly quickly most of the time.

 However, if I try to use the starter when the bike is stone cold, there's a good chance I'm going to drain down the battery before I can get her to crank. The battery is from Batteries Plus and I already replaced it once, right after building the bike. I've added water to the battery once this season (that helped some), and I use a trickle charger when the bike isn't being ridden much.
 I have a CB550 and the starter spins MUCH harder and faster and will easily start the bike.

 Some background:
 -Stock bike with Uni filter in stock airbox, Pamco ignition and MAC 4-1 (baffled).
 - Timing is right, valves/cam chain adjusted, carbs synched, plugs good, etc. etc. Runs great once started.
 -Will usually start easier with the starter once warm and ridden, but will randomly give up the ghost, so to speak. I kick start it then.
 -Charging system checked and everything is within specs.
 
 Are the CB500 starters weak? Are there bearings or windings that can go bad? Think the battery is just crappy as far as CCA goes?
Suggestions?

[KingCustomCycles.com]

It is possible to remove the starter, disassemble it, and clean it thoroughly for better cranking.  Pay special attention the the copper where the brushes contact, this should be clean and shiny.  Not super shiny, like a superconducting heterodyne, but clean and shiny, The brushes should have good length showing and the wiring should be intact and not corroded. 

[CB500_k2]

To be sure the 500's battery is not the issue try swapping the batteries and see how starting goes.  My 500 has always been cold blooded.  My brother the professional motorcycle mechanic suggested the following steps which make it start much more quickly. 1. gas on and choke full, 2. kill switch in kill position, 3. full throttle and crank the engine for about five seconds, 4. kill switch off  open throttle a bit and start.  Make sure the headlight is off during starting.

[KingCustomCycles.com]

The process you describe is commonly used if the intake has a leak or the compression is getting low.  You are really choking it with that process.  There are other factors that inhibit initial fuel/air flow to the cylinders but those are the biggies.  Each engine is different and mine vary from what you describe to never using the choke or cranking above idle.

[number13]

Could also be worn starter relay. They can be taken apart and refreshed
fairly easily.

[Danno]

I agree with most everything said so far but would also like to add that if the ground going from the battery to the frame is badly oxidized it can also cause this problem and hinder the battery getting a charge so check that too or replace it
remember if it has never been replaced when was the last time you had a battery terminal in a car last 30 years

[tlbranth]

You could eliminate the battery as the culprit by jumping it from a car using decent jumper cables.

[pamcopete]

A very common problem with all of these older bikes is the kill switch contacts that are corroded with age. Generally, the contacts are just brass and not plated with a precious metal, like silver or gold. As the contacts corrode with age, their resistance increases which cause a voltages drop to the coils and reduced current which is even more noticeable when starting because the battery voltage is drawn down by the load of the starter motor.

So, if you have not taken the kill switch apart and cleaned the contacts, chances are it has never been done.

[Scott S]

 The switches are completely rebuilt. You even helped me with the LH side...remember?

 I'll be pulling the starter and going through it on the next oil change.

[Scott S]

 Pulled the starter motor today and took it over to Pamco Pete's, who very graciously disassembled it, chucked it in his lathe and cleaned the commutator and main winding, touched up the brushes and re-assembled it.
 It was very dirty inside.

 Night and Day difference! The starter spins with a whine like a turbine and the engine started, stone cold, on the FIRST touch of the button! It's NEVER done that since I've had it.

 Here are some before and after pics.



 The "grooves" on the main winding aren't grooves. I can't feel them with my fingernail. I think it's just dirt or discoloration.
 Big props to Pete, and if any of you guys are having hard starting problems....check your starter.

[Scott S]

 I can't stress how much of a difference this made.

 Went out this morning, again...stone cold....petcock on, choke on, hit button and IMMEDIATE starting.

 Big thanks to Pete for this one.

[Greggo]

Good to know.  My 500 can be pretty hard to start sometimes.  I have an extra starter I'll be cleaning up.  Thanks!

[sammermpc]

I know this thread is old -- but this is on-topic!

cleaned the commutator and main winding, touched up the brushes and re-assembled it.

I've been restoring my LHS and RHS switches -- and I want to give my CB500 motor the same treatment. Can you (or anyone) describe a little more specifically what these steps entail? I have access to a lathe -- but don't know where to start, exactly, once I pull the starter.

[dave500]

if the starter is working ok leave well alone,tamper with it if it acts up.

[strynboen]

i vork in a elektro shop..and make starters often...first problem are oil in the starter....it come in bypass the oil seal..so get a nev  seal vhen renovate starter..and a nev bearing

next step,,,vash the parts in fuel...and blow it klean ..thek the brushes..they are small even as nev..

put the rotor in a lathe and turn off matrial  of the komutatortor to  it are cylendric..and klean surface. klean the grovves vith a fine hacksav..or nife..polish the komutator after the groves are klleaned up..

fill some grease very littel..on the bushing at komutator end..must not come on komutator
make shure the isalasion at the threadet tap pover inn ,,,is total fine

the starter can only fits together at one vay..but marke the parts up..so it lines up..can make it easyer ...take some photoes step by step..

sorry for my viking english...like if som one can revright it in proper english..thel can i delete this..

[calj737]

Not only is your advice very helpful, but your translation makes perfect sense. Don't worry about the Viking English, you're more than literate enough to be very helpful!

[wowbagger]

Yup, completely understood your instructions and it came off sounding much more badass. 

[Scott S]

i vork in a elektro shop..and make starters often...first problem are oil in the starter....it come in bypass the oil seal..so get a nev  seal vhen renovate starter..and a nev bearing

next step,,,vash the parts in fuel...and blow it klean ..thek the brushes..they are small even as nev..

put the rotor in a lathe and turn off matrial  of the komutatortor to  it are cylendric..and klean surface. klean the grovves vith a fine hacksav..or nife..polish the komutator after the groves are klleaned up..

fill some grease very littel..on the bushing at komutator end..must not come on komutator
make shure the isalasion at the threadet tap pover inn ,,,is total fine

the starter can only fits together at one vay..but marke the parts up..so it lines up..can make it easyer ...take some photoes step by step..

sorry for my viking english...like if som one can revright it in proper english..thel can i delete this..

 Pretty much exactly what he said.

[calj737]

I have found it helpful to read Stryn's post with an accent. Makes the translation perfect to my ear...

[strynboen]

if you drink some MJØD.... all danisk svedish and norvegien can be read vith no problems..
MJØD are viking beer...