Topic: 2011 World Championship of Custom Bike Building - CB750s take #1 and #2

[scunny]

I don't normally walk through this door but it was open.
If we all liked the same thing the world would be a bloody boring place.

carry on gentlemen.

[vames]

Peanut Gallery: "Hey look at this bike. It's ugly. It's not even close to being rideable. It's just a dumb piece of art with poor worksmanship. The exhaust makes the carbs boil and the head overheat."

Bike's Bulder: "That's fine if you think it's ugly, but on the other points you don't know what you're talking about. It's very rideable and there are no issues with the carbs or overheating and we put our heart and soul into the worksmanship and the whole thing is very sound mechanically."

Peanut Gallery: "What, are you calling us liars? You're arrogant. We're the only ones who can build bikes."

[Retro Rocket]

Thats a pretty poor interpretation mate......

[vames]

someone else would be tooting the horn

You mean like winning an award?

I don't even like either of those bikes -- I like stock bikes. But the guy was merely responding to a bunch of people talking out their asses about his worksmanship. He does have a business/reputation to defend. He also probably knows that this is a very established and influencial website and that things said here will probably start to be seen as truths outside. So he said something.

I wonder if you guys would chime in on another forum if people were making untrue derogatory statements about your bikes on another site.

[andy750]

Personally I like the Sentoh and it has some interesting features (oil tank in the hump - but do wonder how the stock? oil pump manages to keep up?). One question I  have for Jim is how does it handle in the corners with no front fender? Are the R1 forks rigid enough there is no need for a fork brace? Curious about this...

Any more pics of the front end especially the digital gauges/lights? Or how about a video of it running? Curious as to how it sounds.

thanks,
Andy

[Terry in Australia]

I personally don't mind either of those two bikes, while they're both certainly an exercise in "form over function", they both look well built, although that single carb conversion is ridiculous, with a 10 inch inlet tract, the throttle response would be slower than a wet week in jail, and cylinders 1 and 4 would run so lean I'd be surprised if it even ran on 4 cylinders. Get rid of that crap and put a proper set of carbs and a decent exhaust system on it, and it'd be a nice ride.

Having said all that, I wouldn't give much credibility to this particular show anyway, "arty types" being judged by other "arty types" is akin to letting the lunatics run the asylum. If you don't agree, check out the "bike" that came third in this category. WTF? Indeed................. 

 

[ekpent]

That 3rd place bike looks like something a farmer threw together to get a little work done in the ole' bean field.

[Bluegreen]

Peanut Gallery: "Hey look at this bike. It's ugly. It's not even close to being rideable. It's just a dumb piece of art with poor worksmanship. The exhaust makes the carbs boil and the head overheat."

Bike's Bulder: "That's fine if you think it's ugly, but on the other points you don't know what you're talking about. It's very rideable and there are no issues with the carbs or overheating and we put our heart and soul into the worksmanship and the whole thing is very sound mechanically."

Peanut Gallery: "What, are you calling us liars? You're arrogant. We're the only ones who can build bikes."

And if his tone was anything close to that I don't think there would be an issue here. But it wasn't.

I was and still am pretty neutral about the bike itself. Not my cup of tea, but there is nothing wrong with that. The builder could have responded in this thread a number of ways and he chose haughty. Hence my response...

[Redrider969]

this forum has some of the best built Honda's on the planet, show winners and all and is home to most of the best engine builders and technicians and racers on the planet, check out the billet block threads, or Joey's reverse head 550, just to mention a couple. The bike of the month threads are home to plenty of well built bikes.

I agree with with most of what Retro Rocket says, and especially the part quoted above.  I am constantly amazed and humbled by the mechanical and artistic talent displayed on this forum.  I admire the guys who do incredibly perfect restorations recreating history for others to see, admire and respect.  I admire the guys who build stock-looking bikes and ride them every day.  I admire the guys who work to keep a run-down bike running, and the guys who make their bikes into their idea (dream?) of what a bike could/should be whether it's a cafe racer or a chopper or something that doesn't really fit into a particular class.  Oh, and I REALLY like and appreciate the guys who have helped me find ways to improve an already great bike (stop blushing, Hondaman).

I can't afford a K0... Wish I could.  But with the parts I have along with a few parts I still need but know where to get, I can make my K5 look just like a KO and run just like a K0.  And that is MY dream.  I was going to paint it one of the three original colors, but after seeing so many beautiful K0 restorations on these pages, I decided that others have been there and done that better than I ever could.  So,  I'm going to leave the current "97 Miata M Edition Green alone.

I know some folks will consider it inappropriate to "waste" K0 parts on a K5, and some won't like the non-stock color or the alloy rims or all the stainless steel parts.  And I know the quality of the workmanship won't begin to approach the work of many others, including the two bikes we've being discussing.  But everyone is entitled to their own dream, and if it's not mine dream or your dream, it is theirs.  And, if we don't like it (and believe me, there are many bikes around that I wouldn't want to be seen on) we ought to at least respect it as someone's dream.

Well, I guess I could have just said, "Don't rain on other people's parade."  But no one has ever accused me of being succinct. 

[Redrider969]

[ The builder could have responded in this thread a number of ways and he chose haughty.

It is interesting how differently we can interpret the same words.  I do agree that the builder could have chosen different words.  And I can see how his wording might have offended some.  But except for his introductory wording, the rest of his response was informational.  I suspect he wrote in the heat of the moment, with feelings that might have been a little hurt, just as mine would have been if incorrect assumptions had be written about the quality of my work.

I'm sorry all, I don't mean to criticize anyone, but as a a member of another forum, where nastiness is frequent,  it hurts me  to see the seeds of inconsideration.  I enjoy all of you too much, and would rather focus on the wonderful benefits that accrue to all of us as we share knowledge and insights based on our different talents and skills.

I will now officially retire from my unofficial position as forum conscience.

[754]

Thanks Redrider and Aft customs for your comments, and explanations..
 I think a lot of you on here, simply do not understand the builders point of view , nor effort.
 I know a local guy here that competes in AMD, and have a fair idea of the effort, and amount of hours that goes into this..
 The bikes in the show are merely a current rendition of the builders works and ideas at THAT present time..
 I am sure that many of you if you put 600 hours plus into a bike over a year period, while still trying to make a living, would get annoyed by such comments as not even rodeable, things like that.
 And then there.. what if the builder looks at the bikes posted on here by some of the people making the coments.... that may be an real eyeopener..
 Some bikes on here are evolved over long periods of time and evolve and change, the same bike being used the whole time..
 When you commit to entering the show, you run under a very tight timeframe to get it done.. keep in mind that is not their ONLY chance to showcase their ability or necessarily a yardstick of all the builds that came before and will come after..

 just my thoughts on this topic..

[the technological J]

that third place bike is wicked.. after hearing about the 1st and 2nd place bikes i would have loved to see them in person but i can only hope to catch a vid... i think the builder heard about this thread and was shocked that his  very well thought out customizations were so smooth they were looked over as stock.... i know i looked some over.... so i hope for a vid

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Guys, it's about 2 things: talent and pride. Period. Cash helps too  Great job on your bike!

[jneuf]

Thanks Redrider and Aft customs for your comments, and explanations..
 I think a lot of you on here, simply do not understand the builders point of view , nor effort.
 I know a local guy here that competes in AMD, and have a fair idea of the effort, and amount of hours that goes into this..
 The bikes in the show are merely a current rendition of the builders works and ideas at THAT present time..
 I am sure that many of you if you put 600 hours plus into a bike over a year period, while still trying to make a living, would get annoyed by such comments as not even rodeable, things like that.
 And then there.. what if the builder looks at the bikes posted on here by some of the people making the coments.... that may be an real eyeopener..
 Some bikes on here are evolved over long periods of time and evolve and change, the same bike being used the whole time..
 When you commit to entering the show, you run under a very tight timeframe to get it done.. keep in mind that is not their ONLY chance to showcase their ability or necessarily a yardstick of all the builds that came before and will come after..

 just my thoughts on this topic..

Well said Frank.

[KingCustomCycles.com]

Talent is God given, and pride comes before the fall.  Money is the root of much evil.  I have no idea how that relates to the "custom" bikes but I try not to get too wrapped up in anything anymore.  I actually have gotten what I consider hate mail for my customs, and I have gotten basically love letters from buyers.  The love outweighs the hate by far, and it is all just another day.  I continue to build and actually enjoy the process.  If someone else likes the bike and wants to own it, the cake is iced.

[754]

 I think that show was builder judged, and that is very different than a lot of judging..
 IMO the absolut wurst form of judging is peoples choice (insert rolling eyes)

 There is something here that may be missing;
 When bikes are viewed in real life some detail and feel happens that is hard to convey via media. Think detail still shots in a magazine feature, they show it fairly well.
 Often when a builder views anothers work, they are thinking, how well does it fit together, could it be cleaner, or improved upon, .. and when the answer is usually n it cant be,.then it is well done.
 Its not always about loving or appreciating the style or basic concept, it is more about how well the idea was executed.. and that viewing in real life is vastly different than viewing a video or a handful of stills..

 ..just saying..

[aft customs]

I was surprised to be notified about our bike showing up on this site because it's for the purists ,restorers, and racers of the SOHC.  I love these bikes & have worked on ,serviced and restored many in my shop over the years. The negative uninformed comments are what lead to my responce. I stand by the embarrassing yourselves comment. It was addressed to the comments that were in accurate. NOT to those of you that know what you're talking about! Go back & read the threads -
Stretched & raked ---not true
Not road worthy------not true
Not sensible--------- silly -considering it handles & stops better than a stock SOHC
Look at me----   childish statement
Line flow is crap--- your interpretation - and I'm accused of being harsh & arrogant
Nothing original -----look again.  There are prototype Moto Gp parts on this bike & several other production parts debuting on this bike
Easy to come in 1-3 when only 3 bikes were entered.  You obviously weren't there

I did not once degrade anyones work or make untrue statements. I responded to inaccurate comments
BlueGreen - if that's haughty or arrogant too bad

RetroRocket - Never once said that this site wasn't home to some very knowledgeable & talented people - pretty sure they weren't the people I was referring to so don't degrade them by putting them in that category. The talented people on this site experiment all the time on their projects in many ways. The SOHC would not exist if it weren't for Soichiro Honda's vision. I think we can all agree that it's not a perfect motorcycle - but isn't that one of the reasons we love it so much? The modern day sport bikes can trace their roots to that bike because people experimented & didn't let all the negative comments about their work deter them.

Terry- 4 carbs work better. I wanted the challenge of making a single carb system work & it's been a fun experience. The throttle responce is actually pretty good thanks to the accelerator pump on the HSR42. I should of used a 45 but had the 42 in stock. Mikuni has been very interested in this project & maybe we will all benefit in some way from this learning process. And maybe not. But I don't feel like a fool for trying either. I would bet good money that exhaust would show higher numbers on the the dyno than a 4 into 1 but don't care enough to build another exhaust to find out. It sounds wicked & runs great. I'm happy with it.

Andy - The oil pump is designed for a dry sump engine. No worries on your concern. A lot of Honda's include some sort of fork brace into their fenders. Most modern day sport bikes do not . The inverted forks are very rigid as are the triple trees for those forks. We made the trees for these forks beefier than the stock R1. That bike comes with a plastic front fender with no brace. No head shake or wiggles. This bike was designed to stomp through the Sierra Nevada foothills where the roads are tight & twisty.

Now for those of you that think AMD is a joke with "Arty types voting for arty types"
You are talking about an event that you clearly have not been to.Here are the facts.
Those builders that want  a "run proof " verification on their bike have to start the bike & make several passes in a designated area which is filmed by AMD. Not all builders get this & they lose points in the judging. Myself & many builders I know will not even vote for a bike that can't be ridden. There are 30-40 VIP judges also from the motorcycle industry with diverse back grounds voting.
A lot of these bikes have very clever & beautifully done componants & designs.
These people come from all over the world & have amazing backgrounds & degrees in everthing from aerospace to physics & racing back grounds.Some are incredible machinists. Some come from 3rd world countries & work on a dirt floor with crude tools. I guarantee that any one of you would have memorable conversations sharing your knowledge with like minded people at that event. You make new friends & would remember the experience in a positive way. A closed mind can not learn. You would be amazed at the knowledge in that room. These people (for the most part) are so humble and genuinly want to trade knowledge with you.

As an outsider on this site I can tell you that I I'm astonished at the negativity & closed minded thinking. The negative comments are are almost personal in nature. I would bet good money that the delivery of those comments would be of a different tone if we were standing face to face. The computeor has changed us all .  Try making you comments in a way to be constructive & you'll be taken more seriously.

[KingCustomCycles.com]

Welcome to the forum, is there a technical problem we can help you with?

[andy750]

Thanks Jim for the info I was looking for. Much appreciated!

Good luck with the next build!
cheers
Andy

[WarwickE36]

It always amazes me how someone can devote A TON of time, energy, emotion, passion and money into a project and someone behind a computer screen says "its crap"... especially from 1 picture.  I am not going to give me opinion on the bikes.  I sincerely admire the effort and knowledge invested in these projects.

As an outsider on this site I can tell you that I I'm astonished at the negativity & closed minded thinking. The negative comments are are almost personal in nature.

Welcome to the forum is right aft customs ... It took me a while to get used to the comments that would come in from some, but not most of the people here.  I laugh out loud at many remarks.  That being said there are a lot of really helpful people here who really enjoy discussing these bikes and helping others.  Hopefully you will stick around and be one of the helpful ones.

There's no doubt in my mind these comments aren't going to keep you from building custom bikes.  The let hate fuel the fire.  Keep building and keep posting here. 

Much respect from the guy in the Dog Suit.

[vames]

Welcome. If you stick around, you'll have to endure some of these:



But there are tons of these:



and lots of these



and these

[mrjack55]

I wasn't going to chime into this silly flame fest, but here's to the right to freedom of speech.

I am kind of surprised by the level of negativity that is going around about this.  Yes, we all have our opinions, and we are indeed entitled to them.  I too was not all that excited by these builds at first glance.  But, I began to realize that I didn't feel comfortable basing that opinion on 1 crappy little picture.  I kept going back and looking again for more.  Then Jim from AFT Customs added some back story.  That helped me become more informed about AMD and their rules regarding the functionality of these bikes.  This added some facts to the story.  I now want to see more!  I want to see what I'm missing according to Jim's description.  I want to learn from an award winning builder.  What inspiration can I draw from his creations?  I know have more questions than opinions. 

As far as the "tone" of his reply's, I look at it like this.  Much like a master chef stands behind his/her dish, he is standing behind his vision and what has transpired from it.  I have a lot of respect for that.  It's been said, but if we all had the same taste, we would all be building the same boring bikes.  No one would be able to tell them apart.  Variety is truly the spice of life.

As best as I can tell there are around 11,000 members on this forum.  Maybe 20% are active and reply as well as post to threads.  The same few always have nothing positive to say, and many others follow them.  The rest however say nothing.  I guess it's true; "The empty can rattles the most." 

To all the builders, fabricators, visionaries, hacks and lovers of all things motorcycle...Thank you

[Really?]

Welcome. If you stick around, you'll have to endure some of these:



But there are tons of these:



and lots of these



and these

That was great.

[mrjack55]

Yes it was!

Vames, you are my new best friend. 

[Terry in Australia]

Terry- 4 carbs work better. I wanted the challenge of making a single carb system work & it's been a fun experience. The throttle responce is actually pretty good thanks to the accelerator pump on the HSR42. I should of used a 45 but had the 42 in stock. Mikuni has been very interested in this project & maybe we will all benefit in some way from this learning process. And maybe not. But I don't feel like a fool for trying either. I would bet good money that exhaust would show higher numbers on the the dyno than a 4 into 1 but don't care enough to build another exhaust to find out. It sounds wicked & runs great. I'm happy with it.

Now for those of you that think AMD is a joke with "Arty types voting for arty types"
I would bet good money that the delivery of those comments would be of a different tone if we were standing face to face.

Thanks for the info re: the HSR45 vs 42 mate, I've got a single carb manifold here that I want to try and was going to buy the 42, but I'll look at a 45 now, if you think it's a better option. I'm hoping to get over to the US around Christmas time, how far is Jackson from Los Angeles? I'd love to come out and see your bike running, and have a chat "face to face". Cheers, Terry.