Topic: Your kids, when is enough a enough?

[dhall57]

My oldest son made some bad choices while still in HS. You know parents, started hanging around the wrong group of kids witch led to drugs, alcohol, trouble with the law, etc. It effected him so much he dropped out of school his Senior year It's been a slow spiral down hill slide for him ever since, constantly in and out of trouble. He is now 26 and is sitting in jail right now( this is not the first time ) on a larceny charge brought against him by his roomate saying he stole some of his property. But his roommate is no model citizen either, been involved in just as much trouble as my son and probably more. You know the saying-with friends like his he doesn't need any enemy's. Every bad thing he has been involved in over the last 10 years is the result of his drug and alcohol use and who he hangs around with. As parents we've tried and done everything humanly possible to help him get his life headed in the right direction, but so far nothing has worked. There's been some times where he looks like he's going to start doing better and make something out of his life, but he is a expert at telling his mom and dad what they want to here when all along he is still out running around with the wrong people and doing the wrong stuff. As of right now he's been in jail for 3 weeks waiting trial and as called us almost every night trying to get us to bail him out and if we do he says he will start doing better( there he goes telling us what we want to here again ) and even though it is killing us we have stood our ground and have not. I'm being pulled both ways, my heart says he is my son and I love him so no matter what he's done I need to go get him out and try to help him out of another mess he's got into. But my mind is telling me enough is enough leave him in there he is a 26 year old grown man and all this is his doing and no one elses and let him face the consequences good or bad. Maybe some jail time will wake him up and make him see where nothing else has that his life is a train wreck and he needs to start doing something to make it better. Any parents here been through anything similar with there kids, I hope not, but if you have tell me what you did and the different things you did to handle it.

[scrapvalue]

"Tough love" is just that.
It is is tough on you and tough on him.
Be`strong and make him take responsibility for his own actions.
You are doing the right thing. Unfortunatley, the right thing ain't always easy.

[junkyardjon]

let him sit and learn. either he'll learn or he won't but let him sit in there. my parents bailed me out the first time and i didn't learn. the next time they let me sit and i learned LOL.
i have some family members that will not learn no matter what. they've been in and out so many times, it's not funny anymore.

[dhall57]

scrap and junk thanks for your opinion, it helps.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Do the crime prepare to potentially do the time.

If you have bailed him out already before let him sit, he didn't learn his lesson the first time.

[CaféElite]

Its fair to say at 26 and multiple instances of poor choices that setting in jail or bailing him out will most likely not change his path going forward. At this stage bailing him out will probably reestablish that you are his safety net but leaving him in jail will give him time to meet further low lives and discuss the amazing ways to making a living. Your best bet at this point is trying to find a way to change his like surrounds (IE: military, relative in another part of the country, job on a fishing boat in alaska).

I have watched my sister (33) destroy my parents because of parents love.. Good luck!

[tortelvis]

Two personal examples: my 25 year old stepson started down the road of "mom and dad will take care of me". He got drunk and totalled my Z28 so we let him stew in the drunk tank overnight. He made all the right noises when released but then dropped out of sachool, had no way to get to work so spent all of his time sleeping, eating and playing his X Box. Not a bad boy, but I could see where this was going so threw him out. Now he has his own place, works hard and is saving to finish his degree.
My brother is 50 and living with mom! He has been married three times, has countless bastards running around, signed away his own two kids to avoid paying support. His third wife has attempted suicide three times and finally threw him out after his last escapade. He has his own lawn care business and is drawing unemployemnt. Anything he needs, mom pays for, despite him having plenty of his own money. Last Christmas he told her he was buying her a new flat screen TV. He sold her projector and kpet the money, then on Christmas Eve told her she would have to start making the payments on the new flat screen! She has cosigned countless loans only for him to default every time. He has lied, cheated, stolen and attempted to have her committed so he could sell her house. I remeber when he was born mom said "I've always wanted to spoil one child." Ye reap what ye sow." Let him stew. He will either sink or swim but you don't want to enable him any longer.

[my78k]

I can't offer much as my kids are still young enough to be scared of me (12 and 9 and both girls!) so I can't really relate.

I will say though that if the situation ever comes they will get support from me to a point. But that point will come fairly quickly especially at 26!

Dennis


Edit - I just re-read my post and it came across as though you aren't giving your kids support by doing what you are doing. I didn't mean it like that! We will always support our kids but the MANNER in which we support them changes. I think the manner which you are now trying is a better option....

[Really?]

Can't speak as the parent, my kids are not old enough yet.  But speaking for myself, I was scared straight.  It worked for me.  Hopefully it works in his case.

Don't let go of him though, he will still need you and he will show it to you when he gets his head on straight.  Some of us are late bloomers.

Oh, a complete change of scene makes a huge difference.  It helped me a lot.  I didn't start out in Texas but glad I am here - 26 years later.

[CBGhia]

I'm with Tipper.  I had to go through my bad decisions and learn the consequences of those decisions on my own.  You can't help here.  Tell him that he will have to sit it out.  Either he learns or he doesn't. My parents got tough with me and I learned,  they were always soft on my sister and brother and they didn't.  My sister is just getting her act together at 30.

[Goldbug]

People are how they are. This may be something you have to accept.

With these types- and they're all the same- you don't want to help them for a few reasons. First and foremost, nothing is their fault. Things "just happen" to them. This means that they will have no problem continually asking for your help getting out of any trouble the world "put them in." Because it's not their fault, they won't feel guilty about asking, or be particularly grateful. Secondly whatever help you give won't be enough. He needs cash so give him a $20. He KNOWS you could give him more and he will expect more up to an arbitrary and unrealistic number he decides on. If expectations are not met you'll be subject to a tantrum. Lastly, they can be passive aggressive (or overtly aggressive) toward you if you're not meeting their expectations, the day you don't give them what they want may be the day they do something to "knock you off your high horse." It's sad when it's your family but be very wary of letting them drag you down with them. Since it's not his fault he won't feel bad if you end where he is- that's just the world out to get both of you.

I've dealt with many of these people. Very rarely do they turn around completely. Even if they straighten up legally and get a job they still simply lack emotional maturity. Drugs and alcohol have a way of locking people into a maturity level when they start heavily using them. If it's 12-16 you're #$%*ed. I do find them funny to listen to. You'll never have met a person who knows so many "dicks". Their boss, roommate, the cop that arrested them, the person who wouldn't hire them, the bartender who wouldn't serve them, the dealership that wouldn't give them a loan, etc. etc. etc. Dicks dicks dicks! But of course the whole time you're wondering when you're going to be the subject of their next dick story.

I've seen the military do wonders for these people though. Unfortunately, with war going on, I would find it somewhat in poor taste to push your kid into that. But the National Guard will have no problem taking an able bodied 26-year-old. May be worth the suggestion.

[kirkn]

, but I could see where this was going so threw him out.

Not to derail this discussion, but, how exactly did you do that?  Where did he go?  Did you give him a deadline to be out?  How did he get the money to pay first/last/security?

As you can maybe guess, I'm struggling with a similar issue.  I'm at a loss as to how to 'throw him out' short of a knock-down, drag-out scene, and then he's basically homeless, or staying at a buddy's or whatever. 

How did you get him set up initially?

Kirk

[Duke McDukiedook]

National Guard sends 'em overseas now, can't get enough full time mercs to fight corporate wars nowadays.

[CaféElite]

How did you get him set up initially?

Not to be a d1ck Kirk but I think the point was that he was tired of his #$%* and pushed him into the ocean without a life jacket to see if he would swim. At 16+ you are eligible for work.. As humans we like to eat and have shelter.. Im sure your kid will put this together rather quick when he/she knows your tit is no longer available. You should know your child well if enough to take a couple steps back and say wow this kid will do fine I just need to give him a shove. Its also possible your child has some serious issues and it might not be a wise choice.

[bikerbart]

I grew up without a 'tit'.On my own since 9th grade.My brother and two sisters as well,but I was the youngest.My brother ended up in and out of jail,I tried to go to college for a few years,but couldnt afford it,2.5 was a good run.I lied to authorities to stay in HS and lived with my sister,we sold drugs to live and it took over my siblings lives,I did not let that happen to me.I chose to leave my hometown at 18 which was the best thing I could have done.Started to work at 15 and ALWAYS had a job no matter what,dishwasher,apple picker,construction,I would do anything because I knew I needed to work to live.I was happy to wash dishes because I could eat and I would always work my way up to cook.It was sad to watch my bro and sisters lives get messed up by drugs and alchohol,but I was the youngest and learned from watching them,thing is,we all worked,all of us,always,no matter what.Maybe I am getting older but the work ethic in the younger generation just isnt what it used to be.

[kirkn]

and pushed him into the ocean without a life jacket to see if he would swim.

Yeah, yeah, I got that.  You're not being a d1ck, but, reading all the cliches doesn't help.  I'm wondering about concrete actions! 

Did you sit down and give a deadline?  Had he saved money already?  Did you front him more money for F/L/S? 

Practical advice, not just cliches... 

[CaféElite]

Did you sit down and give a deadline?  Had he saved money already?  Did you front him more money for F/L/S? 

Practical advice, not just cliches... 

If setting down and giving ultimatums worked then you probably wouldnt be posting for advice. If he could save money then you probably wouldnt be posting for advice. Providing them money or support to leave your house is keeping the "tit" alive.. If your willing to pay them to leave then they know you will most likely pay them to stay away.

"My child, you are a f*ck up. You have tell the end of the month to get you and your #$%* out of my house. I love you more then you can imagine and you are always welcome to come to me for advice, to bs, or whatever other reason that brings a child and parent together. Just not financial support." -> It seems like you are looking on how to pitch this to your kid.. here you go. Now do your best to watch from a distance and only jump in if you feel its a life or death situation, just don't let them know that.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Expectations, you have them, express them to your kid- in clear concise words. If you haven't done this yet to your kid you are doing them a disservice.

You may not expect your kid to be an astronaut or POTUS but being an employed, mostly law-abiding citizen should be the absosute minimum. If they are not employed, looking for jobs like mad is a requirement if they are to live under your roof past the age of 18.

If they are working a crap job that pays minimum wage and have to live under your roof, there are still rules, rent should be paid to you- you can keep it in a saving account for them but I wouldn't tell them that until a decent amount of money accrues and they are ready to move out. You can loosen rules concerning cerfews because they are an adult at that age but a minimum set of rules must be kept and enforced otherwise what are you doing letting them live under your roof without rules and boundaries.

Set time schedules for these events to happen and think out the consequences if they don't- let them know what they are ahead of time- print them out on that nice computer you use to surf porn on- give copies to your kid. Stand by the enforcement of the consequences if rules are broken, if it means they get kicked out of the house, stick by it.

Stick to your guns once you lay down the rules and consequences, if nothing happens when they break your rules, they will not follow them.

[72 yellow]

The bottom line is you can't help someone who won't help themselves.

[Don R]

A friend of mine has a boy like that, he is a police officer and always got the little #$%* out of trouble. finally a judge took it out of their hands. He told the boy he's been a problem and an embarrasment to his family and he is sick of seeing it coutinue. Gave him hard time.

[mrbreeze]

I read one page of this but didn't go through the rest. I'm 54 years old like yourself and had my kids early. My oldest boy was born in 76' and has always been top notch....good grades, never in trouble...etc., etc....kinda like his Mom. My next son born in 78'.....great kid but always had to test the waters (nothing too serious but it escalated as he got older). He was more like me but by the time he was 16-17...woah!!!...........wrong crowd....bad choices...moved out to live with my ex's little bro who was also walkin' down the wrong path. My son ended up burglarizing cars out in Wyoming one night while hanging with some losers that he thought were his friends. He did 3 months in co. jail and was put on probation. Not even a month after that....he was at a party and it got busted due to the fact that there were a bunch of minors there. They revolked his probation and put him back in county lock up. They were gonna put him in prison for 2 years but offered him boot camp if he wanted to go that route. Man....I'll tell you....4 months of that boot camp and he has been straight and narrow ever since (scared straight???). I would have done anything possible to get him outa the hell he created for himself but there was nothing I could do and I'm glad it worked out that way.

[Spanner 1]

Wow !.. start a thread like this and everyone want's to tell their story ( normal, I think ! ).
My mantra with my kids.... ' ya can't live their lives for them '.... let them go bad/good stop worrying, just be there  with a loving presence as a father... no more or no less... that's all ya can do ( should ever do  ).

[74cb750]

Giving advice is easy.
Raising kids is a difficult job filled with ups and downs.
You can be perfect as a parent, and sometimes the kids still mess up.

Good luck with any decision you make.

peace,
michel

[dhall57]

Thanks everyone for all your opinions and input. I hesitated to start this thread, but I just needed to here other thoughts. I have not bailed him out and I'm not going to. He got himself into all of this so it is what it is. But it still hard to handle and take it all in.
Some people have to hit rock bottom for some reason before they realize they totally screwed up there life. Hopefully sitting behind bars for a month will open his eyes, only time will tell.

thanks
dhall