Topic: Chain links....

[techy5025]

Does anyone know the number of links in a standard 1970 750 chain? Everytime
I buy one it comes too long and I wind up cutting the chain after measuring with it
on the bike and the rear tire almost fully forward.   

This is probably stupid...but I have never had an o-ring chain.  As something came with
the new bike.....how do you tell if it's an o-ring jobbie. 

Jim

[USN20]

My Genuine Honda CB750 parts book dated January 1974, 1st edition lists:

(CB750-KO) Sprocket size 17T / 45T = 98 link chain (size 530)

(CB750-K1 thru K4) Sprocket size  18T / 48T = 100 link chain (size 530)

Don't know about the O-ring chains. I went with a 100 link non O-ring Tsubaki HSL self lube nickel plate (530) on my K4 and it fit just fine.

 http://www.accwhse.com/tsubaki.htm

[Gordon]

This is probably stupid...but I have never had an o-ring chain.  As something came with
the new bike.....how do you tell if it's an o-ring jobbie. 

An O-ring chain will have visible o-rings around the roller pins between the metal plates.  They aren't hard to see, so if you're not sure if you have an o-ring chain or not, chances are you don't. 

[gaustin]

This is great information, and provided me with half of the information I needed (The Chain Size).  The question I have left is where can I buy the two sprockets I'll need for my K4 and is there a certain type or size that I should be looking for? 

Sorry but I'm definitely a newbie and it took me time to feel confident I even had a K4 on my hands. 

[nickjtc]

Buy the sprockets from wherever you get the chain; that way you only have one place to deal with if there are any issues.

.....and fit a Scottoiler!

[diamondd]

Got my sprockets and an x-ring chain from z-1 enterprise. Fast delivery and a good price.

[eldar]

For a 1970 model, I would not get an oring chain. Dont need one anyways. If you just keep your chain clean and lubed and adjusted properly, a standard chain will last almost as long as an oring will. Just ask hondaman on that one. I use chain wax and it works very well. You do need to clean the chain once in a while which you should do anyways.

[jtb]

Of course a K8 is so sophisticated, it deserves an o-ring chain.

[eldar]

it did come with an o-ring but I dont use one. Standards are just fine if properly maintained and MUCH cheaper! 630 chains are pricey!

[gaustin]

Thanks for the reference to Z1.  I just ordered some new sprockets and a new chain, and it was cheaper by quite a bit than just a chain at the local bike shop.  Thanks again.

[DME]

I would use nothing but an o-ring or x-ring chain.

These cost a little more but will actually be a cheaper option in the long run as they will hold up for so much longer.

The point of an o-ring chain isn´t that it´s stronger than a standard chain. It´s not. You can buy a heavy-duty chain that will be stronger but that is unnessecary.

The o-rings just keep the grease inside the links and rollers. And that is where it´s most important to have it.

Proper lubrication and maintenace of a standard chain is actually quite hard work.

You should take the chain off, clean it, and preferably soak it in warm oil so the lubicant really gets into the links and rollers.

Modern lubricants do have good penetration capabilities but they will not do the job as well as the o-rings.


My recommendation is to buy a 530 o-ring or x-ring chain.
The 630 is totally over the top for a CB750.
No modern bikes use 630 chains anymore, they are just unnessecaily heavy and expensive. Even the R1 and GSX-R1000 runs 530-chains....

Cheers
Daniel

[Dave K]

I ran "standard" style Diamond brand chains until about 10yrs. ago. Yes, I got great life out of those chain. One went 25,000 miles before I simply felt guilty and changed it. But, when I went to an "O" ring chain, ahhhhhhhhh, life is good. No more coming home from a ride to oil the chain while the chain is hot and wiping the chain dry(er) before going out on the next ride. Sure, I still oil a chain, but not like I used to. Another benefit is my back wheel and exhaust pipes are not as oily as before, even after wiping the chain down. It is worth the added expense to me.

[nickjtc]

As I mentioned in a previous thread, I had 90,000km on my last bike (an '00 VFR800) and was still running the original chain and sprockets (with no visible wear) when I sold it last year. I had adjusted the chain maybe five or six times in the time I had the bike. Secret to this success: a Scottoiler.

[eldar]

You still need to perfofm the same cleaning on an o-ring chain that you need to do on a standard chain. Why do people not know this? Those orings can actually cause SHORTER chain life if not cleaned and lubed on a regular basis. The o-rings trap IN dirt and grime that can chew away the rollers in no time. this is just like using ball bearings that are supposed to be "sealed".  PLUS an o-ring is HARDER to clean than a standard. I can clean my standard in kerosene or in a pinch, gas, in the time it takes to change my oil. You get dirty changing oil so you might as well clean the chain then.

Also, the chain does NOT always have to be warm. Chain temp depends on the LUBE you are using. As an addition, lube can penetrate MUCH easier into a standard chain than an o-ring. I will probably run my standard chain for the next few thousand miles maybe less but only because the sprockets have never been changed on my bike, even though they look very good aside from being dirty. I guess maybe the 630 chain is just more durable and forgiving than the 530s are.

[DME]

You still need to perfofm the same cleaning on an o-ring chain that you need to do on a standard chain. Why do people not know this? Those orings can actually cause SHORTER chain life if not cleaned and lubed on a regular basis. The o-rings trap IN dirt and grime that can chew away the rollers in no time. this is just like using ball bearings that are supposed to be "sealed".  PLUS an o-ring is HARDER to clean than a standard. I can clean my standard in kerosene or in a pinch, gas, in the time it takes to change my oil. You get dirty changing oil so you might as well clean the chain then.

Also, the chain does NOT always have to be warm. Chain temp depends on the LUBE you are using. As an addition, lube can penetrate MUCH easier into a standard chain than an o-ring. I will probably run my standard chain for the next few thousand miles maybe less but only because the sprockets have never been changed on my bike, even though they look very good aside from being dirty. I guess maybe the 630 chain is just more durable and forgiving than the 530s are.

So, in essence, you say that standard chains are better than o-ring chains?
Easier to clean, longer lasting, etc....?

That is simply wrong.

Of course, chainlife always comes down to maintenance.

Maintain an o-ring chain to the same level as you do a standard chain and the o-ring chain will outperform it by the double if not more.

Maintain it half as much and it will still outperform it.

The thing is that you shall not clean an o-ring chain in gas and stuff as it dries out the o-rings.
Just brush off the worst with a soft brush once in a while and you´ll be fine.
Lubricate it every 250 kilometers and it will last "forever" 

Cheers
Daniel

[eldar]

Oh but there you are wrong. Sure a standard chain will not last as long BUT you DO need to clean the orings THOROUGHLY to get the dirt and crud out. IF you do not, then you might as well do NO maintenance. PLUS I can buy 2 - 3 standard chains for the cost of 1 o-ring chain with atleast half the life so I do actually gain.

Also, since reading was not a priority in your response, I never said a standard will last longer. I just said that an o-ring will not last as long if the dirt is not cleaned out of the orings. Crikey man, you copied what I typed, you should have caught that.

I bet I could still do 20,000 miles on a standard if I do regular servicing. Not bad for a $50 chain versus $120 or more for an o-ring 630.

[DME]

Oh but there you are wrong. Sure a standard chain will not last as long BUT you DO need to clean the orings THOROUGHLY to get the dirt and crud out. IF you do not, then you might as well do NO maintenance. PLUS I can buy 2 - 3 standard chains for the cost of 1 o-ring chain with atleast half the life so I do actually gain.

Also, since reading was not a priority in your response, I never said a standard will last longer. I just said that an o-ring will not last as long if the dirt is not cleaned out of the orings. Crikey man, you copied what I typed, you should have caught that.

I bet I could still do 20,000 miles on a standard if I do regular servicing. Not bad for a $50 chain versus $120 or more for an o-ring 630.

Lets not get aggrivated 

As you also would see if you read my posts  , I´m saying that a 630 chain is totally over the top for these bikes.
And, yes they are pricier than the 530, so why keep using them?
They are heavier and bulkier and that combination zaps power, something we don´t have in abundence on these bikes.
Why use a stronger, heavier chain on 60 hp bike when a 530 is enough for 160 hp bikes (and more considering my turbo-friends who runs 300+ rwhp on 530 chains... )

Well, anyway, these things can never be settled by arguing.

We have both spoken our minds for others to read.....

Cheers
Daniel

[eldar]

Well I got the 630 before I knew I could get 530. As the chain is still in good shape and so are the sprockets, I figure I will throw my cash at other things! Like new handgrips which should be in my greasy clutching grasp tomorrow! once the chain does show some age or when I have cash to throw around, after dyna-s, coils, cam, 836...... Jeez, it might be a while!

I know todays chains are more than enough though. they have come light years from where they were. 630s were put on these bikes in the day cause the 530s then were much weaker. If the sandcast had a 630, they would be much more abundant.

My only thing is that o-rings are overrated and still need good cleanings or their life will be nowhere as long as it should be.
I have found that chain wax which does require the chain be warm, works very well for standards.

[gkw120649]

I changed over from the 630 to the 530 X-Ring.  What is the proper way to clean the X or O ring chain?

Thanks.

Greg in Chicago.  It was 100+ degree F here yesterday.  Good riding weather.

[nickjtc]

Sorry, I'm going to sound like a stuck record on this one (and I'm showing my age!).

If you have some kind of permanent external lubrication to the chain (such as a Scottoiler or other proprietory system) then the necessity of doing a 'deep clean' is much reduced because road crap is flushed off the outside of the rollers and side plates on an ongoing basis. Yes, it is less kind to the environment because it is 'constant loss' (as long as the motor is running, that is) but one tiny drop per minute is way less than the average leaky motor spews out.

That's my 44 cents worth (4 cents + inflation).

[eldar]

Dont have an oiler on my bike. I guess I would not want one as it is one more thing to check. I do see where you come from though. but doesnt the oil get everywhere? I mean the chain wax does a little but not much.

[nickjtc]

I guess I would not want one as it is one more thing to check.
I do see where you come from though. but doesnt the oil get everywhere?

All you have to check is the level of lubricant in the reservoir. The standard reservoir holds enough for 800-1000km riding. The 'touring' reservoir holds enough for several thousand kms. I have mine mounted in front of the rear licence plate, so it is very visible to see every time I get on the bike.

As long as the flow is adjusted to about 1 drip per minute there isn't much gunge thrown off the chain; certainly no more than when you spray on proprietory chain wax/lube. If you get the flow rate wrong, however, then there is the possibility of all kinds of mess!

[eldar]

Knowing my luck, it would be messy!

[nickjtc]

Knowing my luck, it would be messy!

As long as you give yourself time during set-up to dial in the actual flow rate there is little risk of un-necessary mess!

[eldar]

I didnt clarify. i would make the mess FILLING the thing! Then I would slip in it and grab the bike, then it would fall over and I would be pissed about that. Then I would do something while pissed and screw up something else!