Author Topic: Adventures in (Stupid) Troubleshooting  (Read 1049 times)

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Offline Redrider969

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Adventures in (Stupid) Troubleshooting
« on: August 29, 2011, 05:19:23 PM »
Well, a couple of months ago, on my way to work on my CB750K5 one cylinder just quit.  I was close to the Honda shop so I pulled into the parking lot and started trouble shooting while waiting for the shop to open.  I noticed the smell of gas, but the float bowls were not overflowing.  a more careful inspection revealed gas dripping from the drain hole at the lowest point of one of the mufflers.  Ah-Ha, I said,  I have gas, so it must be spark. 

I pulled the spark plug on the offending cylinder and it had a spark. but a rather weak one.  I pulled a plug on another cylinder and sure enough, it's spark looked a lot stronger than the dead cylinder.  About then, the mechanics started coming to work, and stopped to admire the bike and helping with the troubleshooting.  We all agreed it was the spark, and most likely the spark plug. 

One of them went into the shop and returned a few minutes later with a new plug.  We started the bike and it sounded OK.  No charge for the plug...Nice guys.  So with many thanks, and a self-satisfied sense of my own mechanical insight, I was on my was.  It didn't take more than a few feet to realize it was still running on three cylinders, but (1) I was late for work and (2) I didn't want to embarrass the helpful mechanics or myself, so I limped to work sans a cylinder and later home.  arriving with raw gas on my boot, the side of the bike and my rear tire.

Recall that the bike has two coils each with two spark plug wires,  Both plugs fire each time the piston comes up - one on a cylinder full of air and gas the other at the top of the exhaust stroke.  Was it possible that the coil could go bad in such a way that one plug would fire and the other would not?  I have an electronic ignition.  Could it be bad?  Both the coil and the ignition were from Dyno, and an email to them assured me that neither option was possible.  All the wiring was in good shape, so now I began to suspect either the spark plug cap or wire.

I ordered a new set of caps - I figured if one was bad, the others couldn't be far behind, even though they were relatively new.  I was trying to figure out what kind of spark plug wire to buy.  NAPA only had the one type of wire available by the foot, and that was the stuff that might be going bad.  The conductor wasn't copper,  It looked kind of like some kind of carbon impregnated fiber.  I looked online, and did some research and decided a wire with a solid copper core was the way to go, but all I could find online was either sets or having to buy a 100' roll.  Finally I found sold copper wire at an O'Reilly's auto parts store.  So with new caps and wires, I figured I had it licked.

The first thing I noticed was how much quicker the bike fired up when cold.  Obviously, I had a much stronger spark than before.  The next thing I noticed was a growing puddle of gas dripping out of the same drain hole on the same muffler.  Damn... I pulled the plug.  The spark look great.  I checked the compression.  Not great, but about 100 pounds.  Next I though "could it be the valves?"  It didn't seem likely since gas was obviously coming in the intake and going out the exhaust, but just to be sure, I pulled the caps off and looked at the tappets. No loose nuts, everything looked fine. 

I scratched my head and went back to basics.  Spark, Fuel, Air.  I knew I had the first two so it had to be air.  Something must be plugging that carb.  Off with the air cleaner.  Everything looked fine.  Slide opening and closing nothing blocking anything.  Damn, this was getting weird.  Maybe somethings really funky with the float or needle valve, though I couldn't imagine what.  So, with nothing left to do that I could think of, I popped off the float bowl and found,... (are you ready for this?)...  The low speed jet laying in the bottom of the bowl.  Obviously not screwed in tight enough and vibrated loose.

Well, it should have been obvious...  When have I ever seen raw gas running out of the drain hole of a muffler as the result of no spark?  Every time I had gas running on the ground, it was always because of a stuck needle valve (well, except for a couple of brain farts when I forgot to hook the gas like back up to the tank).  Damn, I felt stupid.  On the bright side,  The copper spark plug wires have made an amazing difference in cold starting, and I suspect in overall performance.  I'll know more tomorrow when I ride to work.

Another lesson learned.
Redrider969

Offline mrbreeze

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Re: Adventures in (Stupid) Troubleshooting
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2011, 05:33:10 PM »
Way to follow the problem through. No matter how wierd or unbelievable a problem is.........there is always a reason for it and kudos to you for hangin' in and finding it. Too many people would have just thrown in the towel and parked the bike (or even sold it!!!).
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Offline Tews19

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Re: Adventures in (Stupid) Troubleshooting
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2011, 05:46:58 PM »
Did you have to cut the spark plug wires or mod at all?
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
1970 Honda CB750 survivor.

Offline Redrider969

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Re: Adventures in (Stupid) Troubleshooting
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2011, 08:14:23 PM »
Did you have to cut the spark plug wires or mod at all?

I'm not sure I understand your question, but  I think it might be referring to the stock CB750 coils with the spark plug wires cast into the coils.   I replaced the stock coils with a set of Dyna 3 Ohm coils.  The spark plug wires on them are not case into the coil, and can be replaced just like on a car.  So, I ordered a set of NGK resistor spark plug caps online, and bought the spark plug wire by the foot along with the rubber caps the fit on the coils and the brass end pieces that make the connection between the coils and the wires from an auto parts store, and made my own set of wires.

If I misunderstood your question, please let me know.
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Offline Tews19

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Re: Adventures in (Stupid) Troubleshooting
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2011, 08:38:23 PM »
No you explained it correctly. Sorry I am still learnign about these bikes... I was thinking of doing the conversion... How difficult is it to change over? Is it the same thing Hondaman has on his site for sale?
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
1970 Honda CB750 survivor.

Offline Redrider969

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Re: Adventures in (Stupid) Troubleshooting
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2011, 09:15:10 PM »
No you explained it correctly. Sorry I am still learnign about these bikes... I was thinking of doing the conversion... How difficult is it to change over? Is it the same thing Hondaman has on his site for sale?

Hondaman does not sell the coils.  www.dynoman.net is one source.  They are not too difficult to mount although they are a little wider than the stock coils so are a tight fit under the tank.

Hondaman does sell a couple of important modifications to go with the coils.  One is a set of resistors that decreases the load on your electrical system by about 2 amps.  The other is a transistor ignition system that is used with your stock points.  Hondaman says it greatly increased point life and (if I recall correctly) uses less amperage than the Dyna ignition while providing a better spark.  see www.SOCH4shop.com for more details. 

Speaking from limited experience, if you get the NGK resistor spark plug caps, do not use resistor type wire.  As I mentioned in my "confession" on the basis of just a couple of starts, the solid copper core wires seem to have made a huge difference in cold starts and warm-up time, and the bike seemed to run better in general.  But that's just a first impression.  I'll update this after I've done a bit more riding.

I hope that (1) this is helpful and (2) that all this information is accurate (it is to the best of my ability, and I'm sure if I've misstated something, someone on the forum will correct me)
Redrider969