Author Topic: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project  (Read 17606 times)

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Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2012, 09:22:46 PM »
Not sure yet how they sound as I have not yet had the bike running. Hoping to hear them in the next 10 days, though. I'll post a video, fingers crossed, as soon as she breathes again.

I'd like a nice tone but doesn't have to be too loud. My SC is plenty noisy so it might be nice to have a tame bike, too.

Offline Two-Bit

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2012, 07:26:09 PM »
Not sure yet how they sound as I have not yet had the bike running. Hoping to hear them in the next 10 days, though. I'll post a video, fingers crossed, as soon as she breathes again.

I'd like a nice tone but doesn't have to be too loud. My SC is plenty noisy so it might be nice to have a tame bike, too.

I look forward to seeing a video. I can't find anyone who has posted a video of the 4 into 2 Mac exhaust. I'm guessing they are similar if not the same sounding as my 4 into 2 Jardines.

Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2012, 01:17:31 PM »
Just bought an extra motor locally on eBay. Not a healthy runner but cosmetically it looks good for the most part.  Hoping to snag the spindle spring and hang on to the motor until I make sure mine does not need any other donor parts. Will break it down and stockpile some of the critical bits and sell others.

Offline geminimotors

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2012, 03:39:52 PM »
I had a set of the Jardine 4-2 on my 500 chopper. The baffles were mia, but secured by two  rivets originally. It was loud as heck with out them.

Offline Two-Bit

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2012, 06:50:06 PM »
I had a set of the Jardine 4-2 on my 500 chopper. The baffles were mia, but secured by two  rivets originally. It was loud as heck with out them.

I thought about taking out the rivets and making a smaller baffle to put in. I would probably be pissed if I didn't like it though. Maybe I could get the drill out  ;).

Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2012, 01:43:15 PM »
Picked up the donor motor last week and started breaking it down over the weekend.  Grabbed a good shift spindle spring and clutch lifter rod.  Unfortunately, I had already buttoned up the clutch cover and destroyed the gasket I had made when disassembling again.  Happy with the condition of some other valuable items and plan on stockpiling them for a while.  I think it’s a great experience to tear something down and see how everything interacts.  Managed to pick up an additional set of headlight ears from the seller, too.  My left ear was damaged and I was not thrilled with the repair I attempted.  Will have to clean up a bit of rust on the inside of this one but it’s definitely better than what I had.
 
Grabbed a battery and some more paper today and will cut a new gasket tonight.  Hoping to have oil in the bike by next weekend. 
 
Last week I got a couple hours in the garage and started polishing the lower forks.  Looking a lot better but still in need of some finishing work.  Lots of surface rust on the uppers where the ears sit so I did some light wet sanding to clean them up a bit. 
 
Goal this week is to button up the clutch side again, install battery, add oil, finish polishing forks, gap and install new plugs, and try turning her over.




Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2012, 11:11:29 AM »
My goal this weekend was to dump in oil and try to get her started. 

Well, here was my very first attempt!

http://youtu.be/OX8rlpQw5Tg?hd=1

I have not tuned anything yet.  Exhaust is not properly mounted so I'm sure there was a little leakage and the look out of alignment, too.

Exciting stuff! (for me)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 11:14:24 AM by Jay D. »

Offline Mcwilliams570

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2012, 02:38:13 PM »
Great feeling isnt it Jay to hear it running again. I think I actually saw you smile :)..

Matt
My CB550 project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=101182.0

Project UFB Cb550 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112143.0

Like a 10 dollar hooker on Friday night its going to be ridden.

1974 cb550
1975 cb550
2005 vmax
2009 vmax-sold
1981 gl500i

Offline Two-Bit

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2012, 02:00:38 AM »
My goal this weekend was to dump in oil and try to get her started. 

Well, here was my very first attempt!

http://youtu.be/OX8rlpQw5Tg?hd=1

I have not tuned anything yet.  Exhaust is not properly mounted so I'm sure there was a little leakage and the look out of alignment, too.

Exciting stuff! (for me)

They sound very similar to my 4 into 2 Jardine exaust.

Offline Ronnie04

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2012, 09:37:59 AM »
Did you put any clear coat over the shiny bare aluminum?

Or, are you planing to re-polish it every 6 months or so?

Led light works a lot better bulbs, it even looks good. Just consider it as Audi to Fiat.

Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2012, 10:23:40 PM »
Spent the last couple nights wrestling with my clutch. Could not get the damn thing to disengage. Tried multiple remedies and wound up successful. Cleaned the plates, reinstalled, spun rear wheel to free things up, lubed cable, and made some adjustments. Haven't had a chance to start again to really test but it already feels much more normal.

Also took a little time to spruce up my dull cabinets. We got some new laser printers at work so I ran off some mc logos and used spray adhesive to secure. Will definitely do some more but wanted to see how a few would look first.



Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2012, 02:18:16 PM »
I have done a horrible job keeping this thread going.  However, I have made some strides on the project recently and hope to have updates posted soon. 

LIFE has been my biggest obstacle in getting this bike on the road.  However, that's a nice problem to have!

Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2012, 07:19:50 AM »
Finally got the bike off the work stand.  The beautiful weather over the weekend inspired me to take her around the block a couple times.  It felt great to finally ride the bike, albeit for a very short period of time mostly spent tinkering with the idle speed.

Motor sounds great but I am still dealing with the crazy erratic and climbing revs.  I am going to try another vacuum test before pulling the carbs again next weekend.

I feel like I am so close yet so frustratingly far from getting this bike properly tuned! 

Perhaps the best part of the experience was my wife stepping outside to see the bike and saying "oooh, I like that!"   :D

Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2012, 07:23:10 AM »
Still facing some major frustrations but doing my best to step back and do things right.

Here is another thread I started that might help someone (eventually) facing the same issues.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=115339.0


I finally sealed the exhaust connection yesterday and I'll start her up tonight to see if that helped. I doubt it did but checking one thing at a time.  Next step will be to remove carbs AGAIN and check out the emulsion tubes and manifold gaskets.  I am somewhat skeptical that the Keyster components could be causing these issues because they seem to be widely used and respected.  However, I am willing to check and double check in order to get this bike running correctly. 

It has been difficult to block out the pressure of job search, baby on the way, holidays, and other projects but I know the pride of getting this right will be worth it.

Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2012, 07:54:35 AM »
It was recommended in another thread that I use the OEM carb components to try to sort out my tuning woes.  Cleaned up the bits last night.  A little surface imperfection on one emulsion tube - hoping it does not have a negative effect on the performance. Couldn't get the air screws looking great but the passages are clean so I don't care all that much.  Besides, they're the easiest thing to get to if need be.

Aiming to get the carbs back on to test everything again this weekend.

Before


After

Offline TwoTired

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2012, 10:34:34 AM »
It looks as though you may have polished the emulsion tubes.  They do look nice.

Be aware that the holes in them actually meter air ingress.  So, any distortion from original size can effect engine operation.  Also, the tubes are supposed to have a close fit into their "holders".  If air can leak past their fitment points, it augments or bypasses the hole's total air passage size, which can also effect how the engine runs.  You are aware that polishing does remove metal, which makes dimensions change, right?

I don't see any mention of pods.  So, I hope you are using the stock air induction set up.

I seen some aftermarket pilot jets that had the correct size fuel metering orifice, but the holes in the emulsion tube section were larger than what Keihin jets had.  This will, at least, make the pilot screw setting different from stock position, and could easily make the pilot jet mixtures leaner.   Symptoms would be throttle hesitation and lean plug deposits that can't be corrected with air screw adjustments.

Sometimes one mod leads to another.  The stock air screws are hollow and cross drilled.  This limits their adjustment range/effectiveness.  I note that some have filled in the hollow tips to increase their effectiveness, and allow making the pilot mixtures richer.

At any rate, if you insist on using parts for the bike not supplied by Honda, the distinct possibility that adjustments specified by Honda won't be applicable either.

If you used nonstock slide needles, did you measure the replacements for proper width, length and taper angle?

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2012, 10:51:49 AM »
More great insights, thanks. 

Aside from the attempted use of the Keyster kit my setup is stock.  Stock airbox and new OEM filter.

Yes, I did lightly polish the bits by hand. I did not really have to use any kind of force with the brass cleaner so hopefully the material removal was not significant.

I am strictly interested in getting the bike running correctly rather than enhancing performance. 

Offline iron_worker

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2012, 11:06:10 AM »
Not to discount what TT is saying but if they were polished by hand I wouldn't worry too much about the amount of material removed. If you had used a cotton wheel with compound on a bench buffer or similar then the dimensions may have been changed significantly.

IW

Offline TwoTired

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2012, 01:12:46 PM »
Yes, hand polishing is not much concern, particularly if there wasn't deep corrosion beforehand.   It's buffing wheels where there is some concern.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2012, 06:31:54 PM »
At this point this thread and my tuning thread are running parallel but I am hoping that is temporary.

For the sake of continuity...

Pulled the intakes to check the o-rings which are evidently a vacuum problem area. They are not looking fantastic so I will hunt locally to find a set that will do the trick.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 06:33:31 PM by Jay D. »

Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2012, 08:52:23 PM »
I wasn't able to look for new o-rings tonight but I did have a chance to take a closer look at my pilot jets.  The original Keihin jets do match the Keyster jets with regards to length and hole pattern.  However, I noticed that one of my Keyster jets is a 35 whereas the others, and the stock, are 38.  Hoping that was another contributing factor to my issues.

While the carbs are off again I decided to do a quick paint touch-up job on the top of the case.  It's not beautiful but it did the trick to cover up some of the rough spots and maybe protect it from the elements a bit.



Offline iron_worker

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2012, 09:11:50 AM »
That's a huge improvement for just a touch up job. Looks good.

Different sized pilots would cause all sorts of issues I'm sure. Probably very difficult or impossible to sync it that way.... Or at least if the vacuum levels were synced then you would be drawing different amounts of fuel which could make it run very rough.

IW

Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2012, 12:35:40 PM »
Picked up some generic o-rings from Napa.  Found a size (marked F22) that should do the trick.  Inner diameter is same as original and the ring rises above the lip far enough that is should make a good seal.  At $.50 a pop it's worth a try.




Offline Jay D.

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2012, 04:02:48 PM »
Fired her up today and was about to scream/cry as tach needle bounced around until I realized I had not replaced the vacuum screws.  :P  After that it was easy to get things settled down again.  Bench sync got me close but also did full vacuum sync to really get things smoothed out.

Enjoyed a quick blast around the neighborhood. Have to keep it local because its not tagged yet and tires are sketchy. Still felt great to be a little bit closer to completion.

Thanks to all who pitched in to help.



Offline Tews19

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Re: '74 550 - Patience and Wisdom Project
« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2012, 09:22:26 PM »
Just read through the thread. Nice bike and good work. I think syncing and tuning a bike is the best feeling. All the hard work and frustration these bikes can provide are well worth it IMO
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
1970 Honda CB750 survivor.