Author Topic: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build  (Read 5582 times)

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Offline illrational

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1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« on: September 10, 2011, 08:03:49 AM »
OK ill give all the details good and bad....first off i bought the bike for 1200 and as you see later i got #$%*ted on...i test rode it with the choke on and aethestically it looked really good plus i was seeing bikes going or atleast being offered for 2 3 even 4 thousand. Well the bike would run without the choke on so i deceided to take carb apart and clean it but with carb apart i decided i would take a look at top end because when i took my spark plugs out they looked bad and when i looked in the spark plug port it was crispy. What i found wasnt good as you can see by the pictures....almost forgot as im cleaning up swing arm it looks like part of it was as welded on after a possibly accident...things just keep getting better
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 07:26:50 PM by illrational »

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2011, 08:32:38 AM »
How much trouble do you think im in?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 08:37:01 AM by illrational »

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2011, 08:39:30 AM »
more pics...how severe a damage do you think i have with out having actually dimensions...i saw thread by jensen and he rebuilt his whole engine which looks like mine

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2011, 08:42:47 AM »
input would be appreciated

Offline Mcwilliams570

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2011, 09:56:35 AM »
Doesnt look that bad to me about what mine looked like. The pistons and valve tops can all be cleaned thats just normal carbon build up I would think.

The thing that caught my eye is the second picture of the pistons. The piston that is on the outside it looks like the rings are fused or gunked up with stuff might just be the camera shot.

Not sure about the rust on the studs though.

You need to get the pistons and walls measured see if they are still within tolernce then go from there.

Im sure more will have more imput and have more suggestions.

Goodluck to you..

Matt
My CB550 project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=101182.0

Project UFB Cb550 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112143.0

Like a 10 dollar hooker on Friday night its going to be ridden.

1974 cb550
1975 cb550
2005 vmax
2009 vmax-sold
1981 gl500i

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2011, 07:03:19 PM »
I ordered new valves, didnt think they would be so expensive and i found a diy auto shop so i cleaned everything up i could and also grit blasted....top, brackets, cylinder looks much better. What would you recommend i use to clean the carbon...will i also be able to use your method to clean the crbon build up inside the ports of the head?

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2011, 04:41:52 PM »
came across a thread dealing with Pamco ignition and think i may get the kit....have to pick up some calipers tomorrow so i know wether im just buying rings or a complete piston kit...crossing my fingers it will just be the rings...was so sure i was going to buy a tank seat combo from benji, that pinas design is gansta, but not reading all teh issues im not too sure. Anyone that replaced their piston rings did they need any specialty tools?Right now i just want to have her running by the end of september.
Things to do:
Measure pistons: in tolerance replace rings or out of tolerance replace pistons and then i probably should go with bigger size to get more power decision decisions
Measure head: check for distortion
Replace valves
Adjust tappets
Put carbs back together
Replace strainer in oil tank
Oil change

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2011, 05:18:43 PM »
just looked at my carb arm links and realized that three are the same and one is different...should i have all of one kind and i wonder if this contributed to me not running with out the choke on?

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2011, 05:54:26 AM »
Thanks Matt...is your bike running?the rings arent hummed up but ill wd40 studs and hit with wire wheel.dis you use special tool to put piston rings in

Offline Mcwilliams570

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2011, 07:10:52 AM »
Here is a link of piston rings and what people have done to get them in/out. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=57478.msg622214#msg622214.

I have a 74 550 that I am in the gathering parts/ideas and thinking wtf have I gotten myself into stage.:)
My CB550 project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=101182.0

Project UFB Cb550 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112143.0

Like a 10 dollar hooker on Friday night its going to be ridden.

1974 cb550
1975 cb550
2005 vmax
2009 vmax-sold
1981 gl500i

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2011, 08:07:12 AM »
U know that feelin the post about the low compression addressed piston rings and got 125 has me feeling pretty good right now

Offline Mcwilliams570

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2011, 10:14:39 AM »
Good to hear :)
My CB550 project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=101182.0

Project UFB Cb550 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112143.0

Like a 10 dollar hooker on Friday night its going to be ridden.

1974 cb550
1975 cb550
2005 vmax
2009 vmax-sold
1981 gl500i

Offline lucky

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2011, 10:31:23 AM »
I ordered new valves, didnt think they would be so expensive and i found a diy auto shop so i cleaned everything up i could and also grit blasted....top, brackets, cylinder looks much better. What would you recommend i use to clean the carbon...will i also be able to use your method to clean the crbon build up inside the ports of the head?

I am 62 and started working on Hondas in a dealership when I was 16.
That engine does not look that bad at all.
Sometimes you take a cylinder head off and there will be broken piston rings or even a hole in the top of a piston. One good reason to put rags under the pistons BEFORE you pull the cylinders all the way off the pistons so pieces do not fall in the crank case.

NEVER clean the top of a piston with a wire brush. It will ruin the piston.

You can scrape the top of the piston but just do not use a wire brush on it.
NEVER put the piston in a vice to hold it. (I have seen it done)
You always have to measure piston to wall clearances with the right tools BEFORE you can determine if you will be able to reuse the pistons. They have to be measured the right way. Most of the time you will not want to reuse the pistons because the ring lands get rounded off on the edges. Also remember the letters (T) on the piston rings face UP.
When you take piston rings out of a box do not turn them over or mix them up.
Many people play around with them and then cannot tell which is the top ring and 2nd ring.

I would never put photos on the internet and let people tell me if it is bad or good because many on the internet have no experience. You need to go to a machine shop and ask a trained engine builder about a piston.

You have to interface with the real world. Just my opinion.
Also this gives you the chance to become friends with a machinist that can teach you a lot of things. That is how I learned.

One more thing....
Mark all pistons positions, and which way faces forward. Wrist pins on Hondas may be offset.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 10:36:31 AM by lucky »

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2011, 10:40:20 AM »
Lucky, could i soak in carb cleaner to get rid of most of teh carbon and wash it down with water put it through the parts solvent cleaner wash it off with water again and then hit with grit blaster?

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2011, 09:26:22 AM »
the carb cleaner worked really well after soaking all night on the piston......heres updated pic of some cleadned up parts using parts solvent and grit blaster...also got my first new part in mail....Pamaco ignition kit....eliminated the points and came with two new coils....putting the coils in the same spot is going to take a homemade bracket from home depot with some bending and drilling but should turn out cool

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2011, 09:27:12 AM »
continued

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2011, 09:27:46 AM »
continued again

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2011, 09:28:39 AM »
Oh considering redoing the wiring to get rid of som eof the mess take a look at this....some say this might be normal....any one concur?

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2011, 07:25:43 PM »
guess i better update for prosperity....went to the diy auto shop today and put more parts through part solvent and sand blaster...have rear of bike completely torn down....got tools i ordered from lisle today which was surprised and got me amped to work but still couldnt remove valves with their tool so not im going to try one from jc whitney....still need to remove casket from crankshaft case and was going to wire up ignition kit but figured i already have bike apart i might as well get the frame done...havent decided on color although i was thinking red...pistons are clean although a little discolored....got gasket kit but waing on piston rings, oil strainer, filter and valves....end of next week....i am so jealous of dudes on here that have full garage to work in...ive only been at it a week or two and i feel like ive gotten no where....im going to chrome my parts or should i cay polish the hell out of them...i need to get the engine out of the fram and i have to do by myself which i know will be a #$%* if any one has sugegstions i woudl appreciate it

Offline Mcwilliams570

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2011, 08:06:44 AM »
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=94761.0. Pretty much what i did to mine lay it down and came right out..
My CB550 project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=101182.0

Project UFB Cb550 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112143.0

Like a 10 dollar hooker on Friday night its going to be ridden.

1974 cb550
1975 cb550
2005 vmax
2009 vmax-sold
1981 gl500i

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2011, 05:55:53 PM »
i got my engine out by accidentally taking bike off the center stand taking out screws and just lifting it out.....i got my new inlet valves, oil strainer, piston rings and spark plugs....looked through my gasket kit to see if i had all teh gaskets i would need....put strainer in and tightened up oil pan after i cleaned it as good as i could...next step should be putting piston rings on and probably getting my head and frame powder coated...having trouble gettting my exhaust gaskets or should i say exhaust rings out of the head the carbon is so deep

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2011, 11:10:05 PM »
Well I ordered a polishing kit for engine and stainless parts from eastwood. Also realized no need to open case but will blow it out and buying engine jack that will afford me ability to soda blast and polish. I need to order my new valves and i forgot.

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2011, 01:42:19 PM »
fckn aye still havent ordered exhaust valves but did order bore gauge oil seals orings and misc tools....actually did split cases and will replace all the above mentioned parts... found what turned out to be a moot issue with my upper crank case according to dave...heres some pict because who doesnt like pictures..also realized that i missed two oil seals for engine and will order oem seals for forks which i took apart today and some day will upgrade ...Matt im pretty sure youre the only one folloeing this build so ill post pics after i compress all and have some lasgna

Offline lucky

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2011, 01:49:08 PM »
OK ill give all the details good and bad....first off i bought the bike for 1200 and as you see later i got #$%*ted on...i test rode it with the choke on and aethestically it looked really good plus i was seeing bikes going or atleast being offered for 2 3 even 4 thousand. Well the bike would run without the choke on so i deceided to take carb apart and clean it but with carb apart i decided i would take a look at top end because when i took my spark plugs out they looked bad and when i looked in the spark plug port it was crispy. What i found wasnt good as you can see by the pictures....almost forgot as im cleaning up swing arm it looks like part of it was as welded on after a possibly accident...things just keep getting better

That is how pistons look on a used engine. Nothing unusual. Do you think used pistons look all shinney and polished? I do not see a problem.

Even the valves look normal for a used engine. No chunks of carbon,no burned edges,no cracks ,nothing unusual.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 01:51:29 PM by lucky »

Offline Mcwilliams570

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2011, 01:50:15 PM »
Aye lasagna and BEER ;D Well I finally got my pistons out and got everything measured is all within clearence. Going to do a hone and and new rings and start buttoning it up see how it goes. Work has been killing me 60+ hours this week and looks like the same for next week  :'( Sounds like yours is coming around alright..

Matt
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 01:52:01 PM by Mcwilliams570 »
My CB550 project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=101182.0

Project UFB Cb550 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112143.0

Like a 10 dollar hooker on Friday night its going to be ridden.

1974 cb550
1975 cb550
2005 vmax
2009 vmax-sold
1981 gl500i

Offline lucky

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2011, 01:56:27 PM »
Better not let a car repair place do the valves.
Honda motorcycle engine valves have multiple angles on the valve face. For different harmonics at different rpms.
The factory tool was inserted into the valve guide and turned 1.5 turns to recut the seat.

If you do not have the factory tool  The car repair place will do the "car thing",and just cut the seats at 40ยบ on a car valve grinding machine and call it good - and it will smoke forever.

Did you get new valve guide seals?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 03:37:22 PM by lucky »

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2011, 01:57:19 PM »
that exactly what im having....more beer than lasgna though....finding this threw me for a loop

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2011, 01:58:38 PM »
i got new valves, deals and guides and now i find out i need to ream guides n that isnt cheap

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2011, 02:05:07 PM »
the crank....matt keep me posted...whats the link to your build?...now im ready to take a nap

Offline lucky

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2011, 03:22:11 PM »
Lucky, could i soak in carb cleaner to get rid of most of teh carbon and wash it down with water put it through the parts solvent cleaner wash it off with water again and then hit with grit blaster?
Yes you can soak the piston as you did in carb cleaner overnight.
But NEVER leave a CARB body in carb cleaner over night. There reason is that there is sometimes brass plugs glued inside of some passages and the solvent can cause the adhesive to come undone. Also on some carbs now there is a special coating sprayed on the carb so fuel does migrate to places it should not be by capillary action.

Offline lucky

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2011, 03:25:30 PM »
came across a thread dealing with Pamco ignition and think i may get the kit....have to pick up some calipers tomorrow so i know wether im just buying rings or a complete piston kit...crossing my fingers it will just be the rings...was so sure i was going to buy a tank seat combo from benji, that pinas design is gansta, but not reading all teh issues im not too sure. Anyone that replaced their piston rings did they need any specialty tools?Right now i just want to have her running by the end of september.
Things to do:
Measure pistons: in tolerance replace rings or out of tolerance replace pistons and then i probably should go with bigger size to get more power decision decisions
Measure head: check for distortion
Replace valves
Adjust tappets
Put carbs back together
Replace strainer in oil tank
Oil change

WHOA....Don't just buy any calipers.

You want 6 inch calipers all metal NOT PLASTIC, and they should be 0-.100 in one revolution. 
Otherwise the most common and often used type.
Remember all metal .

You cannot use Calipers to measure the piston walls. It won't work.
Only at the top perhaps, if there is NO ridge.
You can use the calipers to measure the piston ring lands,thickness etc.,.
Use feeler gauges for the piston ring end gaps. Do it the right way.
It takes a special set up with a micrometer to measure the bore for the pistons.
Let a machinist do that for you.
Like I say let a machinist help you with the piston and bore measurements.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 03:32:10 PM by lucky »

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2011, 03:34:57 PM »
I got some nice calipers all metal and ordered cylinder bore gauge to measire the bores

Offline lucky

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2011, 03:36:23 PM »
i got new valves, deals and guides and now i find out i need to ream guides n that isnt cheap

It is normal practice to have to ream valve guides. And this is another place to let a machinist that works on MOTORCYCLE engines help you because some times the valve guide may protrude too far down into the combustion chamber. Usually they are pre measured but it is something to beware of.

You need a machinist to help you with the cylinder head and the cylinders.
Once the head is clean and has the new guides in place then you can assemble it yourself.

Offline lucky

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2011, 03:40:11 PM »
I got some nice calipers all metal and ordered cylinder bore gauge to measire the bores

That is good as long as they were not Harbor freight.

Offline lucky

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2011, 03:43:58 PM »
One more thing.

Be careful about using a cotton fluffy rag on engine parts. If the little cotton threads falls on a bearing surface it is like sticking a rag in a moving bearing. Bad news.

Otherwise keep lint out of the engine.
VW and other companies put new engines together in dust free rooms and cotton rags are not allowed.

See any rags laying around?
Click on photo to enlarge.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 03:47:29 PM by lucky »

Offline Mcwilliams570

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2011, 05:41:57 PM »
How is the build going.. All engine parts have finally come in I should have mine together in the next 2 weeks or so if all goes to plan :)..
My CB550 project http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=101182.0

Project UFB Cb550 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112143.0

Like a 10 dollar hooker on Friday night its going to be ridden.

1974 cb550
1975 cb550
2005 vmax
2009 vmax-sold
1981 gl500i

Offline illrational

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Re: 1977 CB550K Cafe Racer Build
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2011, 06:02:57 PM »
Matt-
Everything and i mean everything is apart....i sandblasted the entire case on saturday and i think i screwed up my bearing journals ill post pics of the journals when i get a chance...i ordered some more parts last night...cam chain and some misc oil seals that i missed on my first go around...going to cost me about 300 to get head milled, valve guide seats done and valve guides reamed...good luck with putting everything back together...i had planned on taking all the necessary measurements today but got lazy