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Author Topic: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?  (Read 20352 times)

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Offline Mercuno

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GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« on: September 16, 2011, 08:43:54 PM »
Just hear me out....

Why couldnt I take the stator out of my 76 cb550 put a pulley on that shaft weld a bracket to the frame and put on a car alternator. Heck why not remove all those crappy r/r wires and pieces and side mount a car 12v fullsize battery. Im not scared. may as well add a fancy headlight and some new blinkies and brake lights. This is gonna be a rat rod I just know it. I wanted pretty but want to make sense. dollars and cents.

thoughts
naysays
suggestions
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Offline Mercuno

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2011, 08:46:15 PM »
oh wow....I thought I had an original idea...

http://www.htctech.net/~squirts/stator.htm
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Offline ekpent

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2011, 08:48:05 PM »
Is it Dollar drink tonight in Long Beach MS tonight or our we thinking up a new sceme  ::) Gotta show pics   EDIT-Seen the winger pics--- Seems most guys want to get rid of weight.??
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 08:52:06 PM by ekpent »
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Offline Mercuno

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2011, 09:14:14 PM »
Ebay has denso mini alternators for 150 and I think it would look downright cool.
I plan on going to the parts house and just digging through alternator till I find something small and cheap with enough power. I was a professional welder before and after the army so no fear there. Even a big ole bulky gm alternator will look right at home on my little rat rod cafe jogger..lol

I think it is very doable and the best thing is it has an internal rect/regulator.

Implications: a lot less wires to chase gremlins through...

I have about had an anxiety attack after dealing with this charging system the past few days. I will post a how to...because Hear me now .....


I WILL DO THIS
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Online scottly

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2011, 09:22:09 PM »
How are you going to seal the stock alternator cover, and still allow the belt to pass through it? Not saying it can't be done, but it would be far easier to repair to stock system. ;)
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2011, 12:14:44 AM »
Quote from: scottly on September 16, 2011, 09:22:09 PM
How are you going to seal the stock alternator cover, and still allow the belt to pass through it? Not saying it can't be done, but it would be far easier to repair to stock system. ;)

Hi Scottly, Cycle X has a cover that would do it, it goes with  their external alternator.... ;)
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Offline strynboen

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2011, 12:25:55 AM »
VHY? build a generator vho are same size as your engine in..just fix the viring problems..its not only the load sistem..think all vires are 40 years old..
what ve need are a komplet nev viring vith all konnektors..then it works..like in the 70"...
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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2011, 02:59:34 AM »
I don't think it will fit inside the existing cover..............:-)  As a side note, run one out each side and it will look like a Goldwing at first glance.  May even get you honorary membership in the GW "Society"  Seriously, it would work but would have to be tastefully done not to look ghetto hillbilly.
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2011, 04:31:59 AM »
I can see some benefits in (neatly) relocating a small alternator behind the cylinder block, as has been done on both custom bikes and many modern Jap bikes over the last 20 years or so.

By blanking off the alternator cover you can lean the bike over much further, there's less chance of holing the cover and dumping out all your oil in a minor "get off", and the added benefit of fitting a more powerful alternator is a good thing, particularly with the silly "Lights On" laws in the US.

Rather than go "Redneck Express" on it though, use a couple of nice toothed pulleys and Gates belts, nice alloy bracketry, and a nice alloy blanking off plate, belt guard etc.

Hell, if you do it nicely, you might be able to sell a few to like minded members here. (I'd buy one) I personally don't like the Cyclex external alternator, it looks too exposed and prone to damage in a minor crash. Cheers, Terry. ;D
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Offline graeme7

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2011, 05:16:51 AM »
This may be a sliiy idea, but wy run it of the crank?

Im new to these bikes, and without looking i cant remember how much space there is, but surely it could be run of the output shaft, add a pulley next to the front sproket.
Or run an idler shaft and run it fron the drive chain.

I know it may not be ideal from a charging point of view but many custom cars run alternators from the flywheel, or from the prop shaft.

If you could take drive from somewhere around the back of the engine it would look alot cleaner and your not taking drive from an area that should be sealed.
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Offline Mercuno

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2011, 06:14:23 PM »
Well, I think the only reason it is sealed is because of debris and particulates that may get in between the windings and all of that spinning junk. I priced out an AC/delco for 54 bux. It will work right nice up high on the frame and will not hit the forks or fender. It is huuuuuuuge so I know if something that bulky will fit and work then a smaller alternator will work even better. On my 76 550 the cover can come all the way off and stay off as far as I am concerned. Then a pulley can be mounted on the same shaft where the magnets used to be; then a belt will run forward and upwards about 12 inches or so. The single wire can then be ran through the frame to the battery.

I am looking into alternative mounting locations and request a shoutout with brands or even better --part numbers for smaller yet still cheap car alternators....

does anyone have any links to something like what we are talking about here?
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Offline Mercuno

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2011, 06:49:20 PM »
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2011, 07:36:47 PM »
If you really want to run a car alternator, be wary of the RPM.  None of them make power at zero RPM.
In cars, they are geared (pulley ratios) so they will make enough power at idle RPM to run all of the car's load.
But, cars don't have an 8000-9500 RPM red line.  Spin anything too fast and it flies to pieces.

So, if you run a car alternator off the SOHC4 crank at an RPM that overcomes the bike load, be sure to wear an armored cod piece when you miss a gear in drag race, and zip the engine way above red line.

The 700S has the alternator behind the engine cylinders.  And, it has a 10500 RPM red line.  I'm told it has an alternator slip clutch so it won't disintegrate the alternator windings.  I haven't been inside that thing to see it personally, though.

Cheers,
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Offline lone*X

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2011, 07:37:47 PM »
"On my 76 550 the cover can come all the way off and stay off as far as I am concerned."

Mercuno, the stator cover has another function that apparently you are not aware of.   It serves as the retainer for the left side oil gallery plug.  Just so you know, if you start your engine with the cover off, more than likely the oil gallery plug will take leave of the crankcase and your engine oil will be spewed on everything on that side of the shop, the plug could be lost and your engine would be running briefly with no oil pressure.   Bottom line, don't start it without the cover in place.  Could slots be cut in the case to allow fitting over a belt?  Probably.
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Lone*X  ( Don )

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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2011, 07:44:12 PM »
Quote from: lone*X on September 17, 2011, 07:37:47 PM
"On my 76 550 the cover can come all the way off and stay off as far as I am concerned."

Mercuno, the stator cover has another function that apparently you are not aware of.   It serves as the retainer for the left side oil gallery plug.  Just so you know, if you start your engine with the cover off, more than likely the oil gallery plug will take leave of the crankcase and your engine oil will be spewed on everything on that side of the shop, the plug could be lost and your engine would be running briefly with no oil pressure.   Bottom line, don't start it without the cover in place.  Could slots be cut in the case to allow fitting over a belt?  Probably.

It also shields the end of the crank, if you expose that to run a pulley off you run the risk of a bent crank if the bike goes down on the left hand side.

One of our members had a VFR800 alternator rotor modded to fit his Honda and it pumps out way more power and fits inside the cover, actually, if my memory serves me well it also allows the cover to be shortened 18mm for a neater left hand side...
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Offline Mercuno

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2011, 07:58:29 PM »
Could you snap me a pic of this oil plug? I dont see where it is at.. Why would they allow oil to even possibly get in there and get all over the magnets and wires etc? I know there is a seal around the shaft heading into the case.

Either way I was looking at it and the thought had crossed my mind about bending the crank and it seems like a simple effort to just notch the cover for a belt.

Good looking out.

I am concerned about the rpms. I know a car has around a 2 to 1 larger drive pulley. I could start there maybe and do some trial and error. I do not have a tach and I do not ever ever go over 50, so I dunno what revs I am running.

The one I was looking at was a racing alternator but I do know that a car wont hit these high numbers. A lil more research and I will be ready.
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Offline Mercuno

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2011, 08:25:40 PM »
WELL WELL WELL. I sometimes feel soooo lonely and / or crazy.

mwuhahahahaha....

Pt. 2 VN1500 External Alternator Project @ D-Ray's Shop
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Offline dave500

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2011, 08:32:24 PM »
plenty of bikes have the charging/igniton system submersed in oil,these dont though,heres the gallery plug used to plug a machining access hole,dont crank your 500/550 with the alternator cover off as it retains this plug and oil will pour out under pressure,its a pushed in aluminium plug with an o ring.
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Offline lone*X

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2011, 08:35:10 PM »
If everything is tight there should not be any loose oil inside the stator cover although I have seen a little from a seeping crank seal or if the O ring on the plug is leaking.   It just pools in the bottom and doesn't normally hurt anything.  Can't get you a picture tonight but if the cover is off the plug is visible at the six o'clock position of the gasket surface, about the size of a nickel.   If the cover is installed just feel for a bump at the six p'clock position where the cover meets the crankcase.  The cover is covering and retaining the plug.   Take a look at the fiche, item 4.

http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_section_popup.asp?fveh=2945&section=123208&year=1976&make=HONDA&category=MOTORCYCLES&tiercode=&dc=2291&name=CRANKCASE+%40+OIL+FILTER
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Lone*X  ( Don )

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Offline dave500

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2011, 08:45:14 PM »
you could rig a strap to bridge over the plug and retain it,,id sooner just get the stock system in order?
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Offline Mercuno

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2011, 08:54:53 PM »
Crapola....SNAKE!!!! That seems simple enough to overcome. I was thinking of doing just like in the video and integrating a new housing into it ....and I need to keep in mind to make sure it retains the original function of keeping that plug in. I owe you a beer.  ;D
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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2011, 09:09:25 PM »
So great, ya get your (auto) type alternator up and running and your going to load it with the little 14Ah bike battery ?.... or did you say the bike had to have a car sized battery too ? How do you regulate the alt. output to work with a bike battery ? It doesn't work the same as the SOHC alternator.
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Offline Mercuno

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2011, 09:29:49 PM »
And that is why I am here. All of us are smarter than any one of us. That is a concern of mine as well.

From what I understand...these bikes dont even start charging until a certain rpm...
I need to figure out what a 45 or 65 or etc amp alt will do. I know you can charge with 1000 volts but amps will do it in...I am not afraid to go with a larger battery or more appropriate battery. I am just giving birth to this idea and I know that we can all figure it out. I know it would be waaay more simple to fix the stock parts but I like to be different.

The one I am looking at is a 60 amp alternator-----I dunno how that relates to the 14 amp hour batteries we have?

Is there a heavy duty battery of similiar size for my bike?

and the research continues...

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Offline Mercuno

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2011, 09:40:35 PM »
http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/bat.html


Lengthy read but my first question is....Is there a such thing that will block too many amps like a resistor or something that could go inline? Seems to me that if I want to stay with a 14 amp hour batt then I need to charge at about 1.5 amps. Radio shack run? lol

I just want to say again thanks so much for giving me actually solid thoughts and not just machine gunnin me down over this topic.
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pat english

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Re: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2011, 10:32:47 PM »
cut some threads and shove a screw in that hole..



Quote from: dave500 on September 17, 2011, 08:32:24 PM
plenty of bikes have the charging/igniton system submersed in oil,these dont though,heres the gallery plug used to plug a machining access hole,dont crank your 500/550 with the alternator cover off as it retains this plug and oil will pour out under pressure,its a pushed in aluminium plug with an o ring.

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