Topic: GM ac delco alternator to fix our charging woes?

[Mercuno]

Time to be humble...
I have angered the honda gods...
The nice fellas over at OReilley's let me dig through their whole alternator stockpile and test fit em today...
I found some very tiny ones alright but the bike itself is just too small. Nowhere to put it.

I hate it that I cant make it happen but I have sure learned a lot on this bike.
Looks like I will just need to pony up and get an all new electrical charging system for her.

Thanks for all of the input and I will know better next time...I will also get a 750 next time lol.

[Tintop]

A little late to the party.   However I plan on using one of the Denso mini's on my 1080 build (to power EFI).  The plan is to locate it under #1 carb, with the pulley facing out.  It will be driven off the crank end, with a gilmer belt.  The mount will be a ring (like I used for my 550 oil filter).  This will supply a mount for the alternator, & P/U for the belt tension adjuster.  There will be some extra material at the bottom to protect the crank end, and the whole thing covered with an alloy guard.  As TT mentioned the biggest problem is high rpm.  Charging a bike battery off a car alternator does work though.  I used a GM one wire alternator & external regulator charging a Harley Dresser battery in my Lotus 7.  Worked like a charm, but my max. rpm was only 7000.

[Mercuno]

I was just trying to be an el cheapo. I would have to get a high dollar fuel injection setup to make just a little room and cant find a small enough alternator to fit anywhere in this little 550.

[Retro Rocket]

A little late to the party.   However I plan on using one of the Denso mini's on my 1080 build (to power EFI).  The plan is to locate it under #1 carb, with the pulley facing out.  It will be driven off the crank end, with a gilmer belt.  The mount will be a ring (like I used for my 550 oil filter).  This will supply a mount for the alternator, & P/U for the belt tension adjuster.  There will be some extra material at the bottom to protect the crank end, and the whole thing covered with an alloy guard.  As TT mentioned the biggest problem is high rpm.  Charging a bike battery off a car alternator does work though.  I used a GM one wire alternator & external regulator charging a Harley Dresser battery in my Lotus 7.  Worked like a charm, but my max. rpm was only 7000.

Hi Brian, if you find the fuel injection thread that is on this site you will see that 750essess has used a VFR800 rotor on his bike and it produces twice or more power than the standard system, it can also be fitted without a spacer allowing about 18mm to be removed from the alternator cover giving more ground clearance, this is of course on a 750....

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=30624.200

[TwoTired]

Looks like I will just need to pony up and get an all new electrical charging system for her.

Um...why.  Did you already throw away what was there?  Are there .50 Cal holes in those bits?
I expect if you had been doing basic troubleshooting the original bits during this time, you'd be out riding by now.  Yeah, the CB550 charging system is kinda weak.  But, I have several examples that have been working for 30-35 years.

What do you need to add to the bike besides the stock lighting and such?

[Mercuno]

I dont really know how to test it. I have read the threads on testing and I always get a reading as if it were an open loop ie nothing or 1?? I took the cover off the regulator and it was all rusted and broken down so just visually that thing is gone. The PO had the crankcase ventilation dumping oil on the rectifier and those short wires are bent and ugly and I just cant get a reading anywhere close to what it is saying for my stator. I assume I need to hold off on the rotor until I actually pull it off and test it.

I dont plan on adding anything really. I was just in the clouds thinking I could do something so outlandishly different.

[Mercuno]

I am about to order the seperate reg and rect from oregon parts. If I install this will a bad stator and/or rotor fry em before I can figure out how to test anything?

[Tintop]

A little late to the party.   However I plan on using one of the Denso mini's on my 1080 build (to power EFI).  The plan is to locate it under #1 carb, with the pulley facing out.  It will be driven off the crank end, with a gilmer belt.  The mount will be a ring (like I used for my 550 oil filter).  This will supply a mount for the alternator, & P/U for the belt tension adjuster.  There will be some extra material at the bottom to protect the crank end, and the whole thing covered with an alloy guard.  As TT mentioned the biggest problem is high rpm.  Charging a bike battery off a car alternator does work though.  I used a GM one wire alternator & external regulator charging a Harley Dresser battery in my Lotus 7.  Worked like a charm, but my max. rpm was only 7000.

Hi Brian, if you find the fuel injection thread that is on this site you will see that 750essess has used a VFR800 rotor on his bike and it produces twice or more power than the standard system, it can also be fitted without a spacer allowing about 18mm to be removed from the alternator cover giving more ground clearance, this is of course on a 750....

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=30624.200

Hey Retro Rocket,  I've been following all the injection threads, but they haven't quite scared me off yet.   The little Denso (-5lb) puts out 55 amps, the VFR about 35.  No question the VFR route will work with EFI though, and that's plan B.  This is for my billet JMR 1080.  I'm also planning to do a similar oil filter setup to the 550, and think the Denso on the opposite side balances things nicely.  As for width, it shouldn't be more than about 20/30mm added to crank width, maybe a bit more to allow for retention of the starter gear & clutch.

[23tbucket]

Mercuno: Understandibly...it is a whole lot of work involved to adapt one of the small fours to use an external alternator. My engine is fuel injected, so I had to have a good reliable charging system to keep up with the added load. I originally intended to mount my alternator in the front of the engine. It would have worked out quite good,

Here is a couple of teasers....might change your mind?




By the way...you can get these little alternators from 30 amp up to at least 45 amp...but 30 is way more than needed. If you go on ebay...under Kubota alternators...you will find them...some under $70.00...but they want more to ship?

[Mercuno]

Oooooh man....What is the part number? I couldnt find one that small...

[Mercuno]

still wont work...I maybe could use a bolt hole that is used by the cover but my headers will be right in the way. I have maybe 5 inches from cylinder head to exhaust. I guess I could add 2 inches to each tube for a lil more clearance. I was thinking more simply of just bolting something up. But for the price It just makes sense.

[TwoTired]

I dont really know how to test it. I have read the threads on testing and I always get a reading as if it were an open loop ie nothing or 1?? I took the cover off the regulator and it was all rusted and broken down so just visually that thing is gone. The PO had the crankcase ventilation dumping oil on the rectifier and those short wires are bent and ugly and I just cant get a reading anywhere close to what it is saying for my stator. I assume I need to hold off on the rotor until I actually pull it off and test it.

I dont plan on adding anything really. I was just in the clouds thinking I could do something so outlandishly different.

Tells us or show us what meter you are using for the tests.  Like motorcycles, all the different models have slightly different behavior.  If you operate it or set it wrong, the readouts will be mystifyting.

You will need to learn how to measure resistance of the white and green wires when disconnected from the regulator.

Same for the yellows of the Stator, to each other and to engine case.

Can we assume the wiring is stock?

The rectifier wouldn't care about being bathed in oil.  Spend money on a R/R if you want to.  But, I haven't found that at all necessary.  I have both rectifiers and Vregulators that are 30+ years old and still working as they should.
It's your money, though.

There is absolutely no need to remove the rotor.  It is just a lump of steel.

[23tbucket]

He! he!...the part number : 400-52062.


Just google that number...you will get lots of hits...eg:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-Aftermarket-Alternator-Toyota-400-52062-/230672081739?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b520a34b

[Mercuno]

Here is my drivers licsence for sizing.....ONly thing I could do is chop and extend the exhaust pipes all the way across. then maybe just maybe.

[Mercuno]

I am using a harbor freight special...maybe therein lies the problem...

[Mercuno]

...

[Tintop]

He! he!...the part number : 400-52062.


Just google that number...you will get lots of hits...eg:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-Aftermarket-Alternator-Toyota-400-52062-/230672081739?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b520a34b

...and they come chromed too! LOL

[Mercuno]

Can you put it next to something for a size reference. I have thought about modding the exhaust to swipe to the right side of the bike to give me a little more clearance. I am getting real hesitant right now and thinking of going with stock stuff.

[Tintop]

here's a link with some size info. http://www.gzmotorsports.com/racing-alternators.html

[Mercuno]

Not really looking for more power. Looking to make this thing simpler to fix in the future and cutting costs right now. I dont know how clean it is yet but I am leaning towards more of a cafe style. But im no racer.

[Tintop]

the simplest and easiest to fix is what you have now.  if your stator is shot it can be rewound.  it will cost you more to do the basic machining (nothing is 'off the shelf') than fixing what you have.  that mini alternator is just the start.

[Mercuno]

Yeah I think it may just be easier for me to take it to the shop and have them tell me exactly what is wrong with it and I will go all frankenstien in a few months when I do a frame off rebuild.

Any ideas on what I am looking at with a full rework of the engine cost wise?  Is it possible to go a little larger on the cc's?

[TwoTired]

I am using a harbor freight special...maybe therein lies the problem...

I have one of those, too.  It will give all the information you need if you use it right.

To find resistance, you set it to the lowest ohms scale.  200 is the one. 
Note the display when the probes are separated and then touching each other.
Then apply the probes to the white and green wires disconnected from the Vreg. 
Report the 3 readings.

Do the same thing to the yellows between each, and each to engine case. Report the readings.

We can check the rectifier next using a different meter setting.

[Mercuno]

Ok so when I say white to green ---I mean red lead to white and black lead to green ---  so forth and so on for all readings..
touching = +1  not touching = -1

white to green = +1
white to black = fluctuating and flickering .2-.8
green to white= -1
green to black= -1

on all the yellows in any combo nothing steady but they all would flicker multiple little readings....
It seems as if Im not getting a good connection but I have scratched all the connectors up really good with the leads...Is my meter shot?

[TwoTired]

You didn't say what the reading was with the probes touching each other and the probes not touching anything.

Did you ever, with the meter set to the 200Ω scale, place the probes on a powered connection, like across the battery terminals?  Might have blown the meter, if so.

Have you left the meter on, draining the internal battery?

I never asked you to measure the black wire, which, if the key was on will be +12V from the battery terminals.  You should NEVER apply an ohm meter to a powered circuit.  At best the reading will be nonsense, at worst, the meter will be damaged by the external power source.