Topic: CB750 vs HD

[BobbyR]

Can a properly tuned, stock cb750k5 beat a stock HD in a stop light to stop light race?

The answer to the original question is yes. I have no problem handling Harleys other than the VROD from a stoplight. The Power band of the CB gives you the edge. First gear on the 750 sucks, but in second you can hold to 70 if need be . The Harley has to shift as his torque flattens early. I do not condone stoplight races, nor would I ever partake in such behavior.  

[enforcer]

Is there such a thing as a stock 92 sporty? every single one in the world has had something done to it, something that age probably had a lot. (just guessing)
Yes, and I own one!  I said stock and I meant it!

MrBreeze:
I believe the 1200 Sportsters have more torque than the 750s.  The Sportster will beat the 750 off the line, but the 750 will soon catch up.

ENFORCER

[Cowboy48]

Maybe if you would have told this before the reaction would have been different...


Raul

Fair enough.  Being new to this forum I had no idea that this was such a sensitive topic.  I'm all about Live & Let Ride.  My comments about "chrome encrusted Harleys" was a good natured jab, not a judgment against someone's right to ride what they like.  The other day a girl at work referenced my cb in an email as "Dan's nerdy bike"    All part of the fun of owning vintage.  I have many friends that have HDs and my brother just bought a (ugly green) 85 Ninja 600.  One thing that I have found is that 90% of HD riders in my area wave and they usually wave first.  This is my final post on this thread.  I hope everyone understands where I was coming from, no harm intended.

Here is the pick of that Ninja.  Are you guys gonna yell at me if I make fun of his fender? 

[kghost]

Hands down Honda

Especially in the hands of a Dedicated Assasin.

<<<<<<<Torque curves? Pic at 35 MPH.

[ofreen]

You guys are killing me!  I never meant for this to be a HD grudge thread...
It was just a simple performance question,  Nothing more.

It is nothing you did wrong.  Mentioning Harley-Davidson on most motorcycle forums is like waving a red flag in front of the proverbial bull.  It really doesn't have anything to do with the bikes, which are like anything else.  They have their good points and bad points and their appeal depends on what an individual wants.  The anti-HD sentiment springs from the dismissive attitude some HD owners have toward every other motorcycle brand in the world and the obnoxious way they express it.  Unfortunately, that attitude tends to reflect unfairly on all HD owners, so the debate centers around just how many of them have that attitude.   

[putnaja1]

Here's my shameful tale:

The contenders:
1)  My '82 CB900F- totally stock, except for a 4:1 MAC pipe that required no rejet of the carbs.  I hadn't even run a full tank of gas through it since I stored it maybe 4 months over the winter, and I didn't change drain the float bowls..  It wasn't running 100%, but it was running on all 4 cylinders, and it ran good enough for me to be comfortable with the idea of just running a few tanks of gas through it rather than total carb dis-assembly and cleaning, which I had done before and was comfortable doing.

***VERSUS***

2)  Some dude on a Harley, my guess (It was *HEAVILY* customized, so I am not quite sure) would be it started out a Sportster 1200.  It clearly had a lot of work done to it, lots of chrome, had trick looking engine parts, and was extraordinarily loud.

Anyway, this guy gets up next to me, and is revvin the crap outta this thing, which is so loud I swear the fillings in my teeth were rattling!  It started to annoy me, and I'm thinking, let me just give this guy a little dust off, as I was sure my 900F would blow his ass in to the weeds.

Well, the light turned green, he got a slight jump off the line, and I hung with him, rmy front tire next to his back tire (in the next lane of course), but I never did catch him.  We kept accelerating until I got to about 90 and I didn't want to keep going (traffic light dense area coming up)..  

Anyway, I'm not sure what surprised me more- the fact that a Harley can indeed hang with an inline-4, or that my 900 wasn't able to take him.  I try to rationalize (the 900 wasn't in top form, I didn't get a good enough start, I backed off, excuses excuses)..  But, he did beat me..  I imagine that there are way too many variables to decide whether a SOHC4 Honda can beat a HD- I think some heavily modded HD's are turned into drag racers, and there are gazillions of parts available for them.  So, I think it all depends..  

Jason

[eldar]

Cowboy, I was thinking of barfing when I saw the fender on that ninja! Big time ugly there! Green only makes it worse!

[dusterdude]

eldar,one thing about harleys,they are just like chevys in the car world.you can buy damn near anything you want for em.also.on our side of the spectrum,if you want to go fast.you need to buy a kaw or a suzuki,they are the japanese variant of the small block chevy.you can buy anything you want for them to go fast too.

[ProTeal55]

How about a CB with a HD motor ?

Just stirring the pot here 

[dusterdude]

joe,to be truthful ive often thought of putting my cb motor in my extra hd frame.

[eldar]

parts for a 350 are everywhere. A place might not have a pen to write with but they will almost certainly have a crank! As for buying something fast, honda has bkies that go faste rthan I would ever want to go. A guy in minnesota last summer or the one before was clock, by plane, doing 225 on his honda

I would like to see what harley riders say if they saw a 4 in that frame! Maybe you can answer this. IS it the bike harley riders worship or is it just the v-twin?

[crazypj]

Quick history lesson, the motorcycle industry according to PJ
HD 'production' was  less than 16,000 bikes in 1970, and most of them were re-counted as unsold on showroom floor from 1969~
I used to really piss off the HD crowd when I told them they should be thankful  that Honda and the japanese saved the motorcycle industry (over 3,000,000 bikes produced 1969, 70, 71 
That isnt the impressive part though, its the fact the Japanese SOLD them and got people involved with motorcycles.
If it hadnt been for Reagan a few years later, HD would probably have folded, as Triumph did (Margaret Thatcher had no interest in supporting British motorcycle industry, hell there were less than 10,000 voters involved, spread all over the country) Ronnie did it to protect America from the 'evil' Japanese, patriotism not free market saved them,
Hell, why worry, its a HONDA Davidson anyway (who owns Showa and Kei-Hin, although the new ones come with Mikuni) I'm not to sure about the brakes (Nissan?)
As one HD exec said, " Harley Davidson doesnt sell motorcycles, we sell the ability for a 40 yr old accountant to ride into town and people tremble" )
 Maybe a slight misquote but you get the idea.
What does this have to do with anything?
Dunno
PJ

[ProTeal55]

HD has always said, " We just don't sell a bike, we sell a Image ! "
                                                                                

[Noel]

Thats sad Noel.A Harley beat your 750? Whats the specs....(on both bikes?)

Well, I certainly don't see it as "sad". And I also don't see it as a Harley beating an SOHC.

It was a great rider beating a mediocre one.

"Specs" were two stock bikes, which is fairly irrelevant, being as this particular fellow could probably have beaten me on a moped. How many riders do you know that can intentionally initiate and control a power slide on a Fat Boy?

But hey, maybe I was being to deep, trying to make a point about riders being more important than bikes, etc.

So sure. Harleys all suck and any old clapped-out SOHC can take one off the line, in the corners, at top speed, off a cliff in a hurricane, whatever. 

[Cowboy48]

So sure. Harleys all suck and any old clapped-out SOHC can take one off the line, in the corners, at top speed, off a cliff in a hurricane, whatever. 

 

[Raul CB750K1]

Reading this I have a feeling of dèja-vù...


Raul

[dusterdude]

Reading this I have a feeling of dèja-vù...


Raul

all over again.

[Steve F]

Reading this I have a feeling of dèja-vù...


Raul

all over again.

Wow.....a Deja-vu Deja-vu!    Or is that Deja-vu-squared 
I personally have been up against a Hardley from a stoplight, and had a tough time staying up with it.  But then again this Hardley was anything but stock with an S&S motor and all the chrome hop-up crap.  I just have to put it in perspective and look at the displacement vs. the power the bikes put out:  1200+cc vs. 736cc.  I doesn't take much thinking to see which one is the clear winner here.

[HondaMan]

Can a properly tuned, stock cb750k5 beat a stock HD in a stop light to stop light race?

A K5 might be tough in stock trim. The K0/K1 did it without breaking a sweat.

To get an edge, change the front sprocket (countersprocket) to 17 teeth. Advance the static timing by 2 degrees and run premium gas. Use fresh sparkplugs and points, or try to find a set of Nippon Denso X24ES-U plugs. Finally, remove the plastic plug in the end of the exhaust pipe, drill 2 holes in the last baffle you see in there, using a LONG 1/2" drill bit, then put the plastic baffle plug back in the pipe. Make sure the little rubber hose between the 2 pipes on each side is connected. DON'T run without the plug in the end of the pipe: it's needed to tune the pipe's length.

If you really want to improve your chances, use a 16-tooth front sprocket, and shift at 7500 RPM.

We used to "sell" this tuneup for $100 in 1974-75.. 

The powerband on K4/K5 bikes ran out earlier than the K0/K1 bikes and the stock gearing was aimed at touring, not stoplights. The unleaded gas of the ear was just coming out, so the K4/K5 was tuned down to run on regular unleaded. The above changes will brisk it up quite a bit.

[bill440cars]

           

                                  HondaMan provides the "Plan", now can we get on wit it?

[Noel]

Of course, if we're talking about modified bikes, then I think the SOHC owner might find himself in trouble. I'm not a big fan of stock Harleys -- or stock bikes of any make, for that matter -- but Harleys get interesting when you get into the big aftermarket engines, IMO.

A stripped-down hog with 120 inches of motor is going to give just about any SOHC rider more than he can deal with, methinks.

[crazypj]

Reading this I have a feeling of dèja-vù...


Raul

OK, so now I dont know what year it is, let alone the day.
Deja-vu-vu
PJ

[bill440cars]

Of course, if we're talking about modified bikes, then I think the SOHC owner might find himself in trouble. I'm not a big fan of stock Harleys -- or stock bikes of any make, for that matter -- but Harleys get interesting when you get into the big aftermarket engines, IMO.

A stripped-down hog with 120 inches of motor is going to give just about any SOHC rider more than he can deal with, methinks.

    I think that's going to depend on how much money the SOHC rider and is willing to spend. I mean, some guys are taking XS650 Yamahas and making 900cc runners out of 2 cylinders, why couldn't a 750 be built to scream also? If a person has the resources, there's not much he can't do.

[crazypj]

.

    I think that's going to depend on how much money the SOHC rider and is willing to spend. I mean, some guys are taking XS650 Yamahas and making 900cc runners out of 2 cylinders, why couldn't a 750 be built to scream also? If a person has the resources, there's not much he can't do.

I'm only doing an XS860 Yamaha twin
PJ

[bill440cars]

             pj,  would ya mind some details and maybe photos on that Yamaha? I've got 2 (73' & 75')
        650s that are nonrunning, maybe later, projects myself. Later on,  Bill