Topic: Is world terrorism good for the economy?

[Retro Rocket]

I have no sympathy for these companies that have not factored in the change in the way we now are doing our business, its not like the Internet popped up over night. Shops are also crying poor here but their ridiculous mark ups, convenience  and poor customer service are the reason people are flocking to online stores. Its the future, get with the program or disappear.....

[BeSeeingYou]

If you include all military spending and spending related to the military that is not part of their "official"  budget it approaches 50% of all spending.  Being that military spending is less efficient at job creation than the civilian sector I would say terrorism is a loser as an economic engine.

[Duke McDukiedook]

The USPS is not a private company, it is a government service.
To ask them to turn a profit and actually fund their retirement fund for the next 50 years is ludicrous.
 

[BeSeeingYou]

Just heard a clip of an Eisenhower speech from the late 50's were among other things he related how for the price of one destroyer you could build 8,000 homes.  For the price of one bomber you could build two schools or hospitals.  How many jobs would be created building things that we actually need instead of worthless crap that we don't need?  So yeah military spending is a loser for the economy.

[Terry in Australia]

Just heard a clip of an Eisenhower speech from the late 50's were among other things he related how for the price of one destroyer you could build 8,000 homes.  For the price of one bomber you could build two schools or hospitals.  How many jobs would be created building things that we actually need instead of worthless crap that we don't need?  So yeah military spending is a loser for the economy.

Maybe so mate, but from what I can understand, there are thousands of empty houses in the US that nobody wants to (or can afford to) buy, and your defence industry is a major employer (of American taxpayers) not to mention a major exporter.

The problem I have with most "peace-niks" is that they are usually the ones who would directly benefit from the government spending former defence money on welfare, as most of them don't work, don't pay taxes and live off government benefits, whether it be unemployment checks, research grants for educated peace-niks, government housing, etc. Personally, I'd rather spend the money on aircraft carriers...............

[Retro Rocket]

The problem I have with most "peace-niks" is that they are usually the ones who would directly benefit from the government spending former defence money on welfare, as most of them don't work, don't pay taxes and live off government benefits, whether it be unemployment checks, research grants for educated peace-niks, government housing, etc. Personally, I'd rather spend the money on aircraft carriers...............

Ooooh    Nice stereotyping there Terry.....   You know, that must be the only argument the pro armed forces guys have because it is the most commonly used point when talking about the waste of money that goes into our armed forces, either that or , well the communists have faded so i suppose its the terrorists now.....  Lets see something original please. The military may  be a huge employer but there are piles of other things that money could be spent on that would benefit everyone. 

[BeSeeingYou]

Who said anything about spending more money on welfare? One reason there are so many empty houses is people have lost their jobs and moved in with others/apartments as our economy crumbles under the weight of pointless wars and out of control military spending.  The point isn't really just building more houses it's how if you would divert a portion of defense spending ( I would go for 25-50%) to civilian use you would create far more jobs, update our crumbling infrastructure, more money for R&D in medicine, technology, energy, etc.  Stuff that actually improves the quality of everyone's life and makes the country more competitive and productive. 

Maybe if some of these countries weren't buying so much of our military crap they could offer a better quality of life to their own people too.  You're pretty free with other's money when it comes to boats.  How many aircraft carries could you guys afford over there?  I would offer to sell you some of ours.

[Terry in Australia]

Ooooh    Nice stereotyping there Terry.....   You know, that must be the only argument the pro armed forces guys have because it is the most commonly used point when talking about the waste of money that goes into our armed forces, either that or , well the communists have faded so i suppose its the terrorists now.....  Lets see something original please. The military may  be a huge employer but there are piles of other things that money could be spent on that would benefit everyone. 

Ha ha, well considering who you voted for Mick, I'd expect that, your pin-up girl and her previous boss (before she stabbed him in the back, of couse) showed us all what they'd spend the tax payers money on and haven't they done a wonderful job? We had a 20 billion dollar surplus when the peace-niks , the commo's and the poofs voted them in, and now we owe China 200 billion dollars, and for what? The education revolution disaster? The Insulation fiasco? What a fcuking joke!

And now we have thousands of illegal immigrants flooding in because your mob changed the rules to make it easier for them to do so, and gave them the power to challenge deportation in the courts, at the taxpayers expense! As I said before, I'd rather spend the money on defence, then waste it on failed, poorly thought out  projects like your mob is (in)famous for, not to mention the generations of institutionalised dole bludgers and scumbags who are the real wasters of the bulk of our tax dollars.   

[Retro Rocket]

Ha ha, well considering who you voted for Mick

Show me where i said i voted for that dopey Biatch.....    Don't even start me on Abbot though,  what a brain dead clown....    We need a new party desperately, all we have are idiots at present.....

And now we have thousands of illegal immigrants flooding in because your mob changed the rules to make it easier for them to do so

You left out the good bits mate, Howard let in 300,00 refugees in his last year of government, that is the highest amount ever..!!!!!
And don't forget that fcuk all really come in in boats, thats just bull#$%* vote buying crap, most of our illegals come in by plane, straight through the front door......  Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story now Terry.....     And i did get the sarcasm in your original post....

[Raef]

Just heard a clip of an Eisenhower speech from the late 50's were among other things he related how for the price of one destroyer you could build 8,000 homes.  For the price of one bomber you could build two schools or hospitals.  How many jobs would be created building things that we actually need instead of worthless crap that we don't need?  So yeah military spending is a loser for the economy.

Maybe so mate, but from what I can understand, there are thousands of empty houses in the US that nobody wants to (or can afford to) buy, and your defence industry is a major employer (of American taxpayers) not to mention a major exporter.

The problem I have with most "peace-niks" is that they are usually the ones who would directly benefit from the government spending former defence money on welfare, as most of them don't work, don't pay taxes and live off government benefits, whether it be unemployment checks, research grants for educated peace-niks, government housing, etc. Personally, I'd rather spend the money on aircraft carriers...............

 in a country that has over three hundred million people the percentage our population employed by the military is insignificant considering $$ per employee, and with virtually open boarders and nearly uncountable numbers of undocumented illegals entering the country and the work force at sub poverty untaxed wages there are many areas that would serve us better than trying to be the worlds police.

I live in the city of Selma which is in Liberty township which is in Delaware county which is in the state Indiana, one of 50 states in the good ol USA. Delaware county alone has lost 52,000 auto factory jobs since the late 80's.

I have been a commercial Mason since 1985 averaging 2200 working hours a year from 1985 - 2008, in the last 3 years I have worked 1800 hours total. Delaware county currently has over 100 bridges on public roads that can not pass a safety inspection and a new school has not been constructed in over 20 years. Our infastructer is crumbling, the jobs are leaving and tax revenue is dropping
So to answer the question, It is good for the profit margin of the rich and powerful but it suck DICK for the average US citizen.

As far as the empty houses, the stimulus plan that was intended to help those losing their houses due to losing there job or the victims of adjustable rate mortgages only hastened hundreds of thousands of forclousers because the banks not only got the houses back but then government reimbursed the bank the value of the mortgage

There are lots of jobs available to be had right now regardless of education or experience the average job you would get to day would pay $12.00 per hour or less with no health care coverage. Since 1985 I have paid in nearly $260,000.00 out of pocket for health care, I currently do not have health insurance because I have not work enough hours in the last 3 years to stay in the program.
 
The US government no longer stands as the governing body of the USA. America is now ran by puppets who's strings are being pulled by big business who's only concern is profit.

[mick7504]

Ooooh    Nice stereotyping there Terry.....   You know, that must be the only argument the pro armed forces guys have because it is the most commonly used point when talking about the waste of money that goes into our armed forces, either that or , well the communists have faded so i suppose its the terrorists now.....  Lets see something original please. The military may  be a huge employer but there are piles of other things that money could be spent on that would benefit everyone. 

Ha ha, well considering who you voted for Mick, I'd expect that, your pin-up girl and her previous boss (before she stabbed him in the back, of couse) showed us all what they'd spend the tax payers money on and haven't they done a wonderful job? We had a 20 billion dollar surplus when the peace-niks , the commo's and the poofs voted them in, and now we owe China 200 billion dollars, and for what? The education revolution disaster? The Insulation fiasco? What a fcuking joke!

And now we have thousands of illegal immigrants flooding in because your mob changed the rules to make it easier for them to do so, and gave them the power to challenge deportation in the courts, at the taxpayers expense! As I said before, I'd rather spend the money on defence, then waste it on failed, poorly thought out  projects like your mob is (in)famous for, not to mention the generations of institutionalised dole bludgers and scumbags who are the real wasters of the bulk of our tax dollars. 

Terry
I had my online Census form rejected recently.
In response to the question - "Do you have any dependants?"
Apparently replying:
1 million illegal Boat People, 3 million drug f'ckd dole bludgers, 3 million third generation unemployed, 2 million people in prison, half of f'n Africa, Afganistan and Pakistan and the majority of the Aust Govt
IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE ANSWER
 

[Retro Rocket]

Apparently , as often as possible,  is the wrong answer in the sex M/F section as well....

[BeSeeingYou]

The cost of one soldier in Iraq/Afghanistan has been reported to cost 1 million dollars for a year. Not a very effective "jobs" program.  How many peaceniks could you keep on welfare for that kind of money?  And at least they would be spending it here at home on motorcycle parts, flat screen TVs, drugs, materials for their protest signs, vegetarian meals, etc, creating the jobs here.

[Terry in Australia]

Show me where i said i voted for that dopey Biatch.....    Don't even start me on Abbot though,  what a brain dead clown....    We need a new party desperately, all we have are idiots at present.....
You left out the good bits mate, Howard let in 300,00 refugees in his last year of government, that is the highest amount ever..!!!!!
And don't forget that fcuk all really come in in boats, thats just bull#$%* vote buying crap, most of our illegals come in by plane, straight through the front door......  Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story now Terry.....     And i did get the sarcasm in your original post....

What? You didn't vote for her? Geez, you've changed your tune from a couple of years ago when you were singing her praises mate, but if you didn't vote for her, and you didn't vote for Abbott, then you must have voted for Bob Brown? Well I suppose it makes no difference, a vote for Julia was a vote for Brown as it turned out anyway.............

And You're saying that in his last year in office Howard let in 300,000 refugees? 300,000? Where the fcuk did you get those stats Mick? Is this what you're talking about? " In 2008-09 about 300,000 new migrants were expected to arrive in Australia, the highest number since World War II". (from Wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Australia#Different_types_of_immigration

As you said, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, but as we both know, in 2008/2009 Howard had been out of office for well over a year? According to Wikipedia again, the total migrant intake for Howards last year was actually 177,600, a tad less than your 300,000 figure? And I'm assuming that considering the previous years figure was  143,000, most of these migrants were legal, anyway?

Yep, I'm fully aware that most illegal immigrants fly in, I didn't mention the boats, you did. The reason that the numbers of illegal immigrants flooding in (not just in boats Mick, in 'planes too) are out of control now is because in 2008 the labour government relaxed the mandatory detention laws that Howard set up, which effectively opened the door  for anyone with enough money to pay for an airfare (or a boat ride) to enter Oz, bypassing the lines of genuine refugees and migrants.

Anyway, you voted for her, or Bob, or whoever, so I guess you're happy with the way things are going? As I said before, I'd rather spend my money on aircraft carriers............. 

[Retro Rocket]

, I didn't mention the boats, you did.

Oh yes you did...   

because your mob changed the rules to make it easier for them to do so

Direct reference to the boats....     Which is political hype and all bull#$%* anyway. Look up how many refugees Howard actually sent back with the mandatory detention Terry.....Not many at all so they all basically still got through.......Not to mention all the "skilled" ones he brought in so his rich mates could hire them instead of training our guys to do the work.  This also does NOTHING to stop people coming through our airports {as i am sure you know} because they come in on visa's and overstay or just don't go back and are a lot harder to track down than the small numbers coming in boats.

The 300,000 figure was a question a reporter asked Abbott that he had no answer for { like most decent questions}, i had assumed {perhaps wrongly} that she knew what she was talking about...

And if you really must know, i voted for no one, zilch, no one worth voting for, and thats still the case for me  anyway....

I am embarrassed at our current batch of mindless politicians and have no intentions of voting for any of them, compulsory or not.

[demon78]

Ok guys I go back to one of my original posts about this where we get together and elect one supreme ruler of our respective countries for a fixed period of time then hang the bastard at the end of that time unless there has been measurable progress in that time but not let them back into power again (measurable progress, all the citizens vote on the priorities no exceptions).
Bill the demon.

[Retro Rocket]

Ok guys I go back to one of my original posts about this where we get together and elect one supreme ruler of our respective countries for a fixed period of time then hang the bastard at the end of that time unless there has been measurable progress in that time but not let them back into power again (measurable progress, all the citizens vote on the priorities no exceptions).
Bill the demon.

Sounds good Bill....

[Bluegreen]

I was reminded of this situation this morning when talking to Chris (Bluegreen) about shipping him one of my cooler kits.

I mailed one off to another member, Ron Jackson, a few weeks ago, and the lady in the Post office told me that I now have to pay an additional 9 dollar "inspection fee" for anything that I mail to the US? Apparently, every box shipped into the US from overseas now has to be opened, the contents inspected, and re-sealed.

I was further reminded about how, just after 9/11, a guy I knew who was a trainer for a big security company was telling me how busy he was training twice as many guards to keep up with demand.

Of course, that's just the tip of the iceberg, police forces have grown, the defence force is constantly recruiting, the big miltary training base I work at is pushing through more and more courses to get guys ready for deployments overseas, airlines are employing many more security personnel, sky marshalls, you name it.

I wonder how many additional staff the USPS has to hire to open every single parcel that enters the US? Anyone here looking for a job? Better rush down to your local USPS office! Cheers, Terry.

1984....

Perpetual war. It's too perfect. You can make all the laws you want and just keep spending to keep the Industrial Complex going.

[faux fiddy]

Ok guys I go back to one of my original posts about this where we get together and elect one supreme ruler of our respective countries for a fixed period of time then hang the bastard at the end of that time unless there has been measurable progress in that time but not let them back into power again (measurable progress, all the citizens vote on the priorities no exceptions).
Bill the demon.

For us uhm-ericans how about 535 elected officials balance the budget or we render them for their organs to make up the difference?  I hear a single kidney is worth 60,000 $US.

[demon78]

Sounds good to me.
Bill the demon.

[Retro Rocket]

For us uhm-ericans how about 535 elected officials balance the budget or we render them for their organs to make up the difference?  I hear a single kidney is worth 60,000 $US.

Hmmmm probably good  with some fava beans and a nice chianti     

[BeSeeingYou]

Ok guys I go back to one of my original posts about this where we get together and elect one supreme ruler of our respective countries for a fixed period of time then hang the bastard at the end of that time unless there has been measurable progress in that time but not let them back into power again (measurable progress, all the citizens vote on the priorities no exceptions).
Bill the demon.

I would add one exception to your rules.  No "rock painting neanderthals" should be allowed to hold political office.

[BobbyR]

I read an interesting article yesterday about jobs and satisfaction. A huge amount of oil and natural gas had been found in North Dakota.  It was found a long time ago but the US Geological Survey people forgot to tell anyone. Anyway:

Drilling has begun and since N Dakota has a small population jobs are plentiful. MacDonalds is paying $15.00 and hour in some spots. People are flocking there and living in Campers in parking lots until they can secure some prefab housing or trailers being built. Many of these folks have had lost businesses or were skill tradesman who because of long layoffs lost their home. Bottom line, they are happy to be working again but they are livid with politicians for letting things get so out of hand. Creating jobs will no longer make people happy as some politicos think. These are solid mid America folk, not usually Liberal, but they are staying pissed. This is the population the status quo has depended on. No Longer.

Young people have been demonstrating on Wall Street NY for almost 2 weeks and the movement is growing here and in other Cities, they played by the ruled,  have degrees, large student loans and no possibility of a job.

Americans are an unruly lot, and when pissed off, and they are pissed, the John Wayne comes out. I think we may be looking at a rebooting of the U.S. Like the Vietnam era, you lose the support of the middle class American, the Politicians get very loose bowels.

[Raef]

I can relate Bobby, I am 42 years old, I have been a member of the International Union of bricklayers and allied craftworkers since 1987.  I have not had a union job 3 years there is NO commercial work and very very little residential work. If it were not for working out of the body shop and doing side work I would have NOTHING left. and all I can think about is the $18.00 per hour in Benni's I have paid over the last 25 years and I don't currently have any insurance and can't get to one of the pensons till  age 48 and the other till 55. I have many friends who have lost everything and have 100's of thousands of dollars in their pension funds and it don't help a thing.

that's the kinda #$%* that makes people go on killing sprees

[Duke McDukiedook]

When the dissatisfied, educated kids and adults here finally decide to get pissed enough and take action for all the bull#$%* we have put up with from our sold out, soulless government retards and evil bankers it will get interesting. I say stock up on ammo and let's get the guillotines ready for some good use.   

Lawyers, guns and bullets.