Topic: 79 CB650 Cafe with modern upgrades

[65Ch3v3LL3]

Hi guys. I'm fairly new to the site here and to these older Hondas. I have helped bob a few bikes for friends in the past and finally came across a good deal and decided on building a cafe style bike. My other bike that I own and ride is a 08 Harley Davidson VROD. One of my goals with this build was to have an older bike with the look I wanted but the convenience of EFI, modern brakes and suspension, and hopefully enough performance to at least equal my VROD. This build will be slow due to the fact that I am currently working in Kabul, Afghanistan so I only get to work on it every 4 or 5 months for the couple of weeks that I'm home.

I also have taken the information I have found on this site and have decided to do a big bore 650.  I'm lucky that I know the owners of Star Racing here in my home town. They primarily do drag bikes and work with V-Twins as well as street bikes. George Bryce, the owner, has  to date won six NHRA national championships and 78 event wins as a rider, owner, or crew chief in 149 final rounds of competition. They know their stuff to say the least. Their engine builder Ron Rees also does work on the side and will be handling the engine build and head work. Star's former dyno guru Derrell Mullis will be helping tune my EFI setup and also doing some of the CNC work that will be needed. A quick overview of the engine build will comprise of 750 sleeves bored to 65mm, high compression 750 pistons, 05-06 GSXR 1000 rods, lightened and balanced crank, head porting and polishing, and of course EFI with 07 600RR throttle bodies and MicroSquirt ECU. We are also looking at having a custom ground cam built once the head if flow tested and the transmission gears will be undercut for quicker shifting.

I have been accumulating parts and have many more to go. I will post an ongoing price list showing what I paid for parts but I don't have it all compiled yet so I will add it later.

So far this is what I have:

• 08 600RR complete front end with clipons and controls ($750.00)
• 07 600RR throttle bodies ($45.00)
• 05-06 GSXR 1000 rods ($142.00)
• RAD Manufacturing billet front and rear hubs with Excel rims and stainless spokes ($1500.00)
• 08 600RR wiring harness ($56.00)
• 08 600RR in-tank fuel pump ($50.00)
• 75 CB750 sleeves ($28.00)
• 06 600RR intake boots ($35.00)
• 08 600RR rear brake caliper, master, mount ($46.75)
• 08 600RR front brake rotors ($113.85)

[65Ch3v3LL3]

So here is what I picked up for $300. It was purchased locally and I am the 3rd owner. It had carb problems and was parked in 1998 in a garage and has been there ever since until I came upon it.



Bike getting stripped down:







Throttle bodies:



RAD rear cush drive billet hub before anodizing. I wanted to mock everything up then the hubs will be sent back for black anodizing, lacing, and truing.



Front dual disc hub:





Hub with 600RR disc sitting in place:

[scunny]

interesting project. those hubs look good.

[lucky]

Looks like you are going all the way on this project! WOW.

[Free Booter]

Seriously... "ditto " on the wow!

[bluesmoke69]

Nice can't wait to see more!!

[Retro Rocket]

Hi 65, nice collection of parts there mate. What is the spacing like on those throttle bodies? do they need alteration to fit.?

 

[65Ch3v3LL3]

Thanks guys. I was really impressed with the hubs and think they are going to work really well. The front was setup for 01-06 600RR and was an off the shelf part so I will need to machine 4mm off of each rotor mounting surface to get the proper dimensions for the 08 front end. The rear hub I think is for a KTM 450 but I should be able to adapt it to work as well. This was much cheaper and quicker than getting custom hubs made.

The throttle bodies are really close to the correct spacing from 1 & 2 and 3 & 4. They might be 1 or 2 mm off at best but I have a solution for that I hope. They are a good bit too close between 2 & 3 but they can be separated in the middle so a couple of spacers and longer bolts will take care of that. The fuel rail will also need to be modified. It is comprised of a metal center section that has the fuel tank connection and each end has an o-ring fitting that fits into the plastic fuel rails that the injectors sit in. I will machine a new center section that is longer to make up for the spacing and this will also allow me to set it up for an AN fitting for the feed.  I will get pics of this tomorrow hopefully.

I plan on building an alloy fuel tank that will be placed inside the triangle and will have the fuel filler under the seat. The seat pan will be hinged so you can get to it easily. The stock tank will get the bottom cut out of it and become just a cover. I will place all the electronics under the tank cover so its easily accessible. This all comes from inspiration from my VROD and should lower the center of gravity of the bike.

[wannabridin]

Wow...  Cant really say anything to this other than wow...  Thats awesome!!

[65Ch3v3LL3]

Hi 65, nice collection of parts there mate. What is the spacing like on those throttle bodies? do they need alteration to fit.?

They will need a little work but it shouldn't be a big deal.

The 600RR throttle bodies have the following spacing:

74mm between each throttle body center to center 1 - 2 - 3 - 4
38.4 mm bore on head side
50mm outside diameter head side

The 79-80 650 head has the following spacing:

76mm between 1 - 2 and 3 - 4
81mm between 2 - 3
29.8mm bore on head
38mm outside of port on head

The 05-06 CBR 600RR insulator boots I have are 44mm on the head side and fit the 07-08 throttle bodies perfectly on the other side. So what I plan on doing is making a 44mm diameter ring with a 1mm offset 38mm bore on the inside. These will be TIG welded to the intake ports on the head. This will give me something to clamp the boots onto and will also correct the spacing on the throttle bodies for ports 1 -2 and 3 - 4. The insides will be ported out to blend in the transition.

To fix the spacing between 2 - 3 I will just need to make 2 7mm spacers and buy slightly longer bolts and bolt it back up. The fuel rail will get a new fitting in the center to make up for the additional 7mms as well and the stock portion of the rails will be used for the 1 - 2 and 3 - 4  throttle bodies since that spacing is not changing.

I'll add pictures when I get home. I'm at the shop now.

[maduncle]

Let me add to the 'wow' list here - I am going to watch this one with great interest.

Subscribed.

[65Ch3v3LL3]

Here are the pics that show how the throttle bodies bolt together and how the fuel rail goes together.

[65Ch3v3LL3]

Nothing much to update today. Ron picked up my engine and will start on it shortly. I think I talked him into registering on this site and posting pics in my thread of the engine progress. I also got a 08 600RR rotor and stator in the mail today however I forgot to get pics before sending the rotor with Ron and the engine. The good news is that it will fit the 650 with some machining and an adapter. I'm thinking I might do a custom side cover that doesn't stick out as wide and possibly do fins on it like the 750 covers. I need to talk to my CNC guy on Monday and see what he can come up with.

The 2000 F4i swingarm I purchased won't work. Its too wide at the pivot point by about 3/4" and since its cast aluminum there is no easy way to make it work. So I ordered up a GSXR swingarm today and I will see how that goes.

I'm also in the process of moving into my new shop so I've been working on that as well. I finally got my tool boxes moved in and I picked up a new Lincoln PoweMig 255, Lincoln TIG 175, and a Lincoln 625 Plasma cutter.  Until now I've been using my friends welding equipment since we were in the same building but now that I'm on my own I had to break down and buy my own. Now I just need to learn to use that TIG machine LOL.

[cben750f0]

mate this i gonna be epic!!!

[peace]

[65Ch3v3LL3]

Well not much to add and sadly I didn't get any chance to mock up much as I have just run out of time on this vacation. My 08 600RR front end never did show up so I'm disputing it through PayPal right now. I did find another one and its on the way but it will probably show up after I leave. My GSXR swingarm hasn't shown up either so I'm pretty much at a standstill as far as frame work.

Ron has the engine and should start on it soon. The aluminum adapters that will be TIG welded to the head are being made and we are also working on machining the velocity stacks to mate the 600RR throttle bodies to Tintop's filter kit. I'll get pics of these once they are made.

Mostly I have been working on my shop, I am upgrading my 208/120 service to 200amps and had to source a 75KVA 480D/208Y transformer. I hope to have it installed tomorrow and I swapped out my 100amp panel to a 200amp panel today. I also scored an awesome deal on a Ingersol Rand 15hp screw type compressor with a 120 gallon tank. That should make enough air for me LOL.

The 600rr rotor is going to work with the 650 cover after milling out the interior a little. It is much much thinner than the stock rotor so since the cover sticks out so far we are going mill off the outer face and make it thinner. We will machine a new piece of aluminum that will provide a mount for the stator and will be finned on the outside like the CB750 aftermarket covers that are so popular. We will make it fit tight inside the original cover and then TIG it all together. It will then be chucked back in the lath and have the welds machined down flat so it will be nice and smooth before powder coating. The whole engine is getting a black wrinkle finish and then the fins will be sanded smooth.

[65Ch3v3LL3]

Well I haven't had much to update since I'm still sitting here in Afghanistan. My machinist is working my stuff in during the slow times since I won't be home until March but he did get my intake spigots made. These will be TIG welded to the head and allow the 05-06 CBR intake boots to mount up which will in turn allow me to attach the 08 CBR throttle bodies. Once these are welded to the head they will be blended into the head so that there is a smooth transition from the larger bore.

We are also discussing making some billet covers to replace the stator and ignition covers. The stator needs to be reworked anyhow since I'll be using the CBR stator and rotor. We are discussing ideas but I think its going to end up with some type of contrast cut finish. More to come later.

[Retro Rocket]

Someone else here used a VFR800 stator and rotor,  he spaced it out to fit the Honda cover, but if it was fitted without the spacer, 18mm was able to be removed from the stator cover, that would balance the engine up a bit looks wise....   Keep your head down mate....

[65Ch3v3LL3]

Someone else here used a VFR800 stator and rotor,  he spaced it out to fit the Honda cover, but if it was fitted without the spacer, 18mm was able to be removed from the stator cover, that would balance the engine up a bit looks wise....   Keep your head down mate....

Thanks. Yeah making the cover shorter was the plan. The 650 cover is a little different from the 750 so it would not have been easy to make the spacer work so we decided to make a new one to our specs from scratch. We shall see how it goes. And since there is very little cool parts for the 650 maybe it will help out my fellow 650 owners as well.

[Retro Rocket]

Nice....

[jaguar]

Very interesting build
looking forward to seeing how it all comes together

[HonderCB]

frikken sweet!  seeing this makes me wish i had never sold my 650, although i never would have had the time or resources to do any of it lol.

Subscribed!

[WhyNot2]

Hopefully when you finish with this build you ride that thing to Augusta, would love to see it first hand.

[65Ch3v3LL3]

Hopefully when you finish with this build you ride that thing to Augusta, would love to see it first hand.

I've got no problem with that. This isn't a show bike its meant to ride. I wish I was home so that I could go ahead and get this thing together but it has to wait until March when I get my vacation.

[Bakeoff]

RAD doesn't have any info on their site about RR parts.  What hubs are you using? 

[65Ch3v3LL3]

RAD doesn't have any info on their site about RR parts.  What hubs are you using?

You have to call them. They don't list it on the web page. They do some custom work but its limited. The hub they have is for the 03-06 front end. Since I am running an 07-10 front end I will have to machine 4mm off of the rotor mounting blocks to make the rotors be in the correct position for the calipers. I haven't figured out the spacers yet because I didn't have the front end before I left for Afghan. I have the 07-10 front axle which is 20mm and I have an 03-06 front axle which is 22mm. I'll make one of them work or machine a new one. I like the RAD hubs because they use larger than stock bearings.

The rear hub is for a KTM but I don't remember off hand which one. The rear setup will be all custom anyhow since I'm using a GSXR swingarm and a CBR caliper on a KTM rotor. Should be fun to get that all mocked up. I plan on going to a 520 chain also. Fortunately there is a wide variety of sprockets available for the KTM hub so getting the correct tooth count won't be a problem.

Once I get home again and get everything mocked up I will detail all that is required to make this setup work.

RAD hubs have a really good reputation for being durable. Excel hubs not so much. I was impressed with the machining and the larger bearings. Should last for quite a while no more than I will use the bike.

On a side note I can say however that if you are looking for a super light wheel you really can't beat the stock CBR wheel. It is lighter than just the RAD hub by itself.