Author Topic: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear  (Read 17903 times)

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Offline Hush

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #50 on: October 16, 2011, 12:36:47 AM »
I remember mine did the same, thought it was just a slow Honda, a few tweeks and different bike.
Huge improvement with new air filter, actually got it to rev to speed when I freed up the rusted Auto advancer.
As my old electronics tutor used to say "it's all suck and see", he also used to ask if my projects had "survived the smoke test"! ;D
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline breezy

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #51 on: October 16, 2011, 01:17:34 PM »
Breezy, I don't care if you built the space shuttle, you obviously know nothing about these bikes.  Old triumphs and volkswagens are nothing like one of these bikes, other than the fact they have wheels attached.  You are going the right way to turn into a typical PO of one of these bikes, someone with no clue on what they are doing, then do a half arsed job of it then blame the bike and sell it on to someone else or worse just park it outside and forget about it. WE NEED SOLID DATA to go by, What is your engine speed at 65mph, use a digital tacho like one on a dwell meter, failing that WHAT DOES YOUR TACHO READ AT 65? IS YOUR SPEEDO ACCURATE? Get someone to ride alongside you and see what their speedo says, or use a GPS.  If you can't start providing some solid data to work off of we can't help you and to put it honestly I have better things to do with my time than try and help someone who is either too arrogant or stupid to listen to the people who are on this board >:( .  Good luck destroying your bike.

Well if Honda SOHC's are rocket science, as you seem to feel, then maybe you should care if I built the space shuttle.  But they are not.  They are a Carnot heat engine, a number that has been on the planet since the late 1700's.  I tend to be logical and not follow the dictates of churchmen unless they are using logic as well.  Let's do some logic: 

1. I'm on the highway with a speed limit of 55mph, keeping up with traffic.  I have maybe an eighth inch of throttle left, the engine is screaming, I'm in 5th gear searching for a needed 6th gear.  5mph plus or minus is not going to effect the gross results.  With that data set, my tach reading is simply not necessary.  A couple of comments mentioned the variability in Honda tachs, so why make that a hinge point in this analysis?

2. My buddy who I got the bike from said it was riding fine, he could do a ton, barely- it's an old bike.  He puts the bike away and concentrates on finishing up the body restoration on his 900RR.  I get the bike, do some repairs and put on a new rear tire.  That is the only thing I did to the drive train.  I gave you the specs on the tire and asked anyone to stretch a tape measure around their 18" rear tire and give me a number to compare with mine.  This seems to be an approach that will verify or eliminate a variation in tire dimension as a factor.

3. The clutch was not slipping when my buddy put the bike up, the clutch is not slipping now.  I can bring the front wheel off the ground. 

4. It is not necessary to change all secondary drive train components in all cases.   The rear sprocket is like new, the chain is like new, maybe 1/8" total end play when compressed then stretched lengthwise, the front sprocket is toast.  I'm not made of money, I think I'll just get a new front sprocket. 

5.  I put the tooth count on my sprockets up here.  They are accurate counts.  A picture is not necessary.

6.  If necessary, the front sprocket will be sized according to the percentage difference computed according to the difference in my top speed vs. the stock top speed, with a little subtracted to compensate for the age of the bike.  If the sprocket I end up with is too big for the housing, I'll remove metal from the housing, far cheaper than getting an 18" rear tire with a fatter profile and setting the tire I bought on fire at the next Occupy (city of your choice) protest.


Offline breezy

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #52 on: October 16, 2011, 01:22:17 PM »
So I guess no one is chilling then? :(
Good point of TT's though, because our bikes make so much background noise with cams and clutches etc, it well could be that it is running on less than the optimum 4 cylinders!
Also the auto advance systems when they freeze/rust up can completely throw a good engine off it's stride, bad/clogged airfilter the same.
Many things to think about on these girls........ :D

Thanks, Hush.  The bike pulls too strongly to have an advance or non firing piston problem.  On inspecting the timing side, it all is very clean and bright, the points are barely pitted and the timing (static timed) is good.  I have new aftermarket cone cleaners on each cylinder.

Offline breezy

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #53 on: October 16, 2011, 01:24:39 PM »
breezy thinks its peak revving at 65 mph hush,,i think its out of tune and trying to pull a too tall gear.

The engine is strong, no missing, burbling or hiccupping, it goes through all the gears strongly.  I rebuilt the carbs, checked the point for pitting and checked the timing.

Offline marksman

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2011, 01:31:31 PM »
After just reading this entire POST I thought I was completely exhausted.
But no,  I had some energy left, so I went out to my 1978 CB550 K  with a cloth tape measure.

My non stock Bridgestone 110 / 90  /  18 inch tire has a circumfrence of about  80.5 inches.
on my third CB550k  Bought brand new 1978,  used 1977, used 1978 current bike  4635 original miles now

Offline Gordon

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2011, 01:41:23 PM »
1. I'm on the highway with a speed limit of 55mph, keeping up with traffic.  I have maybe an eighth inch of throttle left, the engine is screaming, I'm in 5th gear searching for a needed 6th gear.  5mph plus or minus is not going to effect the gross results.  With that data set, my tach reading is simply not necessary. 

Yes it is.  "Engine is screaming" isn't usable data.  A number indicating the engine revolutions per minute is.  If you think the tach reading is irrelevant, then what difference does it make if you post it?

Offline trueblue

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2011, 01:55:53 PM »
Screaming is not a number, you need to find out exactly what the revs are and tell us, its not that big of a secret, it sounds like it is out of tune.  Unless you put the rear tyre from a 50cc scoot on the back it wouldn't have made that much difference to the top speed.  If you think these engines are a carnot heat engine then you obviously don't know what you are on about, they are an internal combustion engine, the basic principal is the same as any other engine in any other bike/car/truck, but they are far and away different from the old english bikes and lightyears ahead of a vw.  Have fun ruining your bike because you are too pig headed to listen.  I'm off to ride my 650 which runs like a top because I listened to the people on this board who had been around these bikes for a long time, even though I am a diesel mechanic by trade and work on engines for a living.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #57 on: October 16, 2011, 02:52:43 PM »
I only live about 10 miles away.  I thought of making an offer to go help.  But, I'm now convinced breezy just wants to position everyone else wrong and him right, and most importantly doesn't want to post information that will confirm his ignorance.  He is determined to grind up the cases for yet another failed attempt at fixing something beyond his comprehension and capability, and follow his own misdiagnosis.

Some people have to learn their own hard way.  It's a shame that another bike will suffer from the ignorant.  I pity the Craig's list, ebay, or other buyer that pays him for screwing up yet another vehicle.

1. I'm on the highway with a speed limit of 55mph, keeping up with traffic.  I have maybe an eighth inch of throttle left, the engine is screaming.

This is indicative of cylinders not firing, and YOU being totally unknowledgable about what this bike sounds like at 9000 RPM. I speculate you f'd the carb rebuild.  And your high speed circuits are failing in one or more cylinders.   Probably left some parts out, or didn't clean bits that take extra effort to remove and clean (Emulsion tubes, and or the main's spring retention clips.)  These are mechanical slide carbs, but throttle position does not directly indicate the engine RPM, only rider demand.

2. My buddy who I got the bike from said it was riding fine, he could do a ton, barely- it's an old bike. 

...And the carb got f'd up the carbs since he did that.  Old bike has absolutely nothing to do with it.  The machine runs as good as it's mechanic.  It would do near 100 when new, it will do that now if the right person fixes the accumulated abuse it has received.

Since you won't tell us the tach indication, I suppose it is too much to ask what the spark plug deposits look like after that 55mph dash with near wide open throttle.
But, that wouldn't matter anyway, as you are right and 1000 people with far more experience and knowledge about this bike must certainly be wrong.  I don't need to travel and go out of my way so you can tell me that in person.

Go ahead, hack up the engine case, put a bigger front sprocket on it, and watch your top end speed get lower.  I dare you!
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline Tews19

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #58 on: October 16, 2011, 02:58:35 PM »
I only live about 10 miles away.  I thought of making an offer to go help.  But, I'm now convinced breezy just wants to position everyone else wrong and him right, and most importantly doesn't want to post information that will confirm his ignorance.  He is determined to grind up the cases for yet another failed attempt at fixing something beyond his comprehension and capability, and follow his own misdiagnosis.

Some people have to learn their own hard way.  It's a shame that another bike will suffer from the ignorant.  I pity the Craig's list, ebay, or other buyer that pays him for screwing up yet another vehicle.

1. I'm on the highway with a speed limit of 55mph, keeping up with traffic.  I have maybe an eighth inch of throttle left, the engine is screaming.

This is indicative of cylinders not firing, and YOU being totally unknowledgable about what this bike sounds like at 9000 RPM. I speculate you f'd the carb rebuild.  And your high speed circuits are failing in one or more cylinders.   Probably left some parts out, or didn't clean bits that take extra effort to remove and clean (Emulsion tubes, and or the main's spring retention clips.)  These are mechanical slide carbs, but throttle position does not directly indicate the engine RPM, only rider demand.

2. My buddy who I got the bike from said it was riding fine, he could do a ton, barely- it's an old bike. 

...And the carb got f'd up the carbs since he did that.  Old bike has absolutely nothing to do with it.  The machine runs as good as it's mechanic.  It would do near 100 when new, it will do that now if the right person fixes the accumulated abuse it has received.

Since you won't tell us the tach indication, I suppose it is too much to ask what the spark plug deposits look like after that 55mph dash with near wide open throttle.
But, that wouldn't matter anyway, as you are right and 1000 people with far more experience and knowledge about this bike must certainly be wrong.  I don't need to travel and go out of my way so you can tell me that in person.

Go ahead, hack up the engine case, put a bigger front sprocket on it, and watch your top end speed get lower.  I dare you!

I am about 2900 miles from you and wouldn't mind if you came over to help me reassemble my bike this spring...Thank you TT, can't wait till you get here
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
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Offline Bob3050

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2011, 03:07:59 PM »
Breezy:
  If your bike is topping out at only 65 mph there are really only 3 things that can be happening. (1) The engine is not pulling the rpm you think it is due to a mechanical or tune problem. (2) The engine rpm is high and the speed is low because of slippage in the drive train. (3) The rpm is high and you are going a lot faster than you think you are because the speedo reading is wrong. I don't think they make an 18" tire that would fit your rim and be small enough to cause the gear ratio change that would be as drastic as what you are describing. 

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #60 on: October 16, 2011, 03:15:12 PM »
I am about 2900 miles from you and wouldn't mind if you came over to help me reassemble my bike this spring...Thank you TT, can't wait till you get here

Well, someone's going to get their patience tested!! 

 ;D
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline 750cafe

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #61 on: October 16, 2011, 05:42:36 PM »
I only live about 10 miles away.  I thought of making an offer to go help.  But, I'm now convinced breezy just wants to position everyone else wrong and him right, and most importantly doesn't want to post information that will confirm his ignorance.  He is determined to grind up the cases for yet another failed attempt at fixing something beyond his comprehension and capability, and follow his own misdiagnosis.

Some people have to learn their own hard way.  It's a shame that another bike will suffer from the ignorant.  I pity the Craig's list, ebay, or other buyer that pays him for screwing up yet another vehicle.

1. I'm on the highway with a speed limit of 55mph, keeping up with traffic.  I have maybe an eighth inch of throttle left, the engine is screaming.

This is indicative of cylinders not firing, and YOU being totally unknowledgable about what this bike sounds like at 9000 RPM. I speculate you f'd the carb rebuild.  And your high speed circuits are failing in one or more cylinders.   Probably left some parts out, or didn't clean bits that take extra effort to remove and clean (Emulsion tubes, and or the main's spring retention clips.)  These are mechanical slide carbs, but throttle position does not directly indicate the engine RPM, only rider demand.

2. My buddy who I got the bike from said it was riding fine, he could do a ton, barely- it's an old bike. 

...And the carb got f'd up the carbs since he did that.  Old bike has absolutely nothing to do with it.  The machine runs as good as it's mechanic.  It would do near 100 when new, it will do that now if the right person fixes the accumulated abuse it has received.

Since you won't tell us the tach indication, I suppose it is too much to ask what the spark plug deposits look like after that 55mph dash with near wide open throttle.
But, that wouldn't matter anyway, as you are right and 1000 people with far more experience and knowledge about this bike must certainly be wrong.  I don't need to travel and go out of my way so you can tell me that in person.

Go ahead, hack up the engine case, put a bigger front sprocket on it, and watch your top end speed get lower.  I dare you!


I like you Captain Obvious! 
If you are ever going to be anywhere near Reno, Carson City or Lake Tahoe... Send me a message and we can get together for a ride!   8)

Just a side note about the idiot that started this post.
Can someone film the small mushroom cloud that comes up from his garage when he finally thinks that he got it right? LMAO!!!

Eric
Is there anything more fun than riding? They are between your legs and are quiet when you turn them off.

Offline Hush

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #62 on: October 16, 2011, 07:00:57 PM »
It could well be Breezy that trusting your friends workmanship may be holding your bike back.
He had the carbs apart and may as TT said have missed something that on the surface looks minor but in these engines is significant.
TT mentione dthe emulsion tubes, TT has taught many of us on here about these little suckers, cleaning them out to make the petrol froth up is vital, if you just clean out the main hole down the throat of this brass tower the bike may run but not perform.
The minute holes in the sides need to be clean as otherwise it's no dice for the mechanical carbs of the old bikes.
Please listen with an open mind to the suggestions, I'm picking you will have (like many of us have) a EUREKA moment when the penny drops.
Insults are a dime a dozen on the internet where we don't need to face each other but are not much help to a person seeking a solution. :)
I think the thing I most like about motorcycling is the speed at which my brain must process information at to avoid the numb skulls who are eating pies, playing the ukulele, applying make-up etc in the comfort of their airconditioned armchairs as they make random attempts to kill me!!!!!!!

Offline jneuf

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #63 on: October 16, 2011, 07:31:07 PM »
Truly, this must be a joke, and the TS is trolling everyone here on the forum...I asked for rpm readings in the first thread on this, and he refused. If he REALLY wanted help, he would have provided some of the info that was requested...

Any guy who claims that sort of prior bike and engine experience surely knows that the tire, of all things, is not making a 40 mph difference in top speed. And please don't grind the cases for a 21 tooth front sprocket...

If you are serious, and are just being stubborn, give us some tach readings and make sure you are firing on all cylinders.
'75 CB400f

Offline mattcoff1

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2011, 09:00:17 PM »
Oh man this is great. I think your problems started here...
How do I know the timing mark is on the firing stroke rather than the exhaust stroke on #1?

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #65 on: October 16, 2011, 10:32:32 PM »
Quote
6.  If necessary, the front sprocket will be sized according to the percentage difference computed according to the difference in my top speed vs. the stock top speed, with a little subtracted to compensate for the age of the bike.  If the sprocket I end up with is too big for the housing, I'll remove metal from the housing, far cheaper than getting an 18" rear tire with a fatter profile and setting the tire I bought on fire at the next Occupy (city of your choice) protest.

This would have to be one of the most stupid posts i have ever read on this forum....

You are aware that there are thousands of your model bike on this forum ..? And we are aware that you are not listening to people who Obviously {well obvious to us} know more than you do about these bikes....  If you think that a fatter profile tyre will find your missing 50MPH then you are delusional.......  I wish TT would go round to this guys house, we all need a good laugh..... ;D
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Offline Tews19

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2011, 10:43:55 PM »
TT you must go... I have a cousin who lives next to him.. If you happen to run into him say hi...
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Offline dave500

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #67 on: October 16, 2011, 10:53:30 PM »
what does the tach read at 65 mph?mine shows 5000 at that speed,so if your all maxed out itll be 9500 then?

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #68 on: October 16, 2011, 10:54:32 PM »
what does the tach read at 65 mph?mine shows 5000 at that speed,so if your all maxed out itll be 9500 then?

Try talking to the front door mate, you may have more luck.... :P
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Offline dave500

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #69 on: October 16, 2011, 11:00:16 PM »
what does the tach read at 65?

Offline dave500

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #70 on: October 16, 2011, 11:00:44 PM »
what does the tach read at 65?

Offline dave500

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #71 on: October 16, 2011, 11:01:15 PM »
what does th...oh forget it.

Offline seaweb11

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #72 on: October 16, 2011, 11:15:34 PM »
I almost didn't do this, but come on ::)
Can I get banned for this? Just askin.....

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Offline bryanj

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #73 on: October 16, 2011, 11:20:52 PM »
TT and Dave, You both put it far more sucintley and politely than i can be arsed to any more for this particular deaf idiot
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Offline Danno

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Re: Further Adventures of the Missing 6th Gear
« Reply #74 on: October 17, 2011, 12:03:37 AM »
sounds to me like he is only running on two cylinders since the racing gearset for the 550 in 74 was a 16 front 34 rear only running on two cylinders you can open the throttle wide open and only go 70 mph
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