Topic: 400F Motor Swap---Legal?

[cougar]

LOL ! Hey folks ; First, I'm sorta serious . I recently aquired a 1976 cb400F (no title) which I've gotten running . My wife has a bike with a motor that's dead ! My question is, would swapping the 400F motor over to her bike be legal . Her bike is a Honda as well (just not a 400F) . I know that in a car swapping engines is common place and doesn't matter but in bikes, well.   Thnks for your thoughts,   ...cougar...

[Grabcon]

Bikes are titled off of the frame VIN number. Motor numbers show up no where. Do it and then make hers look like an F model. It you sell it I would disclose the fact to the buyer.

[cougar]

Well, I'll say what her bike is. It's a 1985 Rebel CMX250C, she loves the way the bike sits and handles. But she says sell the Rebel and get something else (Honda of course) ,but it's gonna be hard to sell "not runniing". But I've done some prelim. measuring and it should fit nicely. I can cut the 2 bottom frame rails and the front down tube on both and just about weld them straight back together. Then all I'ld have to do is make the rear engine mount. For me it would be no problem (welder/fabricator) .   ...cougar...

[Stev-o]

Why would you want to do all that? Work on getting the title! And you can bats and seat to make it comfortable or her. And the 400F is a more valuable bike.

[camelman]

Oh man, don't tear up a good 400F.  Those things are much more valuable than a Rebel 250.  If she really likes the rebel but wants more power, then try a Rebel 450.  Quite a bit more power, and just slightly scaled up in size.

[Kevin400F]

If the frame on your donor CB400F is in good shape, you might try to find an otherwise junk CB350F or 400F frame section to hack up for the project.    But otherwise, I say go for it!   Better to see a SOHC engine put to good use than sit around forever in a title-less frame that you may never be able to legally register.

Since the front mounts are pretty simple and you were thinking of custom fabbing the rear mounts anyway, you could just cut the 250 frame, mock the 400F engine up in place and custom fab what you need for the front as well, using the intact 400F frame as reference.

Kevin

[JBMorse]

So the legality of this move is not in question as far as the state and titling bikes.  Vehicles are registered off the frame VIN, as mentioned.  You will only have to convince us that it's morally legal to put such a good engine in such a....hmm... Rebel!
If it were me I'd title the 400f but I bet it would be the fastest rebel in the world if you "repowered" it with that engine!

[cougar]

Hey guys ; First let me aquaint you with my situation. I'm currently unemployed. Have been for a while, although currently registered with 3 "Temporary Employment Services" and because of the lack of work they've been supplying I'm not drawing any unemployment benifits. The only keeping our (my wife & I) nose hairs above water is she's working. I got this 400F by trading a small stick welder and an old compound bow for it, No cash involved. I myself have a rider SOHC cb750 plus a parts motor that's good. So right now everything I'm trying to build is being done without money. I've done a little I-net searching about title companies but haven't found anything about bikes this old. The ones I've found that title bikes as old as 1984 wants $175. Probably not looking correctly, LOL.  Anyway !  Even if I find (sometime this winter) a 350 or 400 frame with a title then I'm still modify the frame (Konging) and other mods to make it comfortable for the 'ol lady. Thereby destroying it's Value as a "1976 cb400F" !  I don't think anyone would give me enough cash to make it worthwhile for me to get rid of it because the motor sounds great and it does have quite a few usable parts. It's kind of a situation that I'm up in the air about at the present time. Fortunately I guess I'll have the winter to make any final decisions, since riding season is about over hear in Ky. I will definately be keeping my eyes open for a "Titled" frame because I'ld rather (oops) cut up a frame to suit my needs, that way it would still be a 35 year old bike at least even if it had been modified. I mean my 76 cb750 (my avatar) aint stock  , but it's still a 35 year old bike. Anybody got a Titled 350/400F frame that I could get for little to nothing  !?    LOL   ...cougar...           P.S. Just FYI, from what I've heard, it's damn near impossible to get something titled in Ky. because for years this was (for some reason, lax laws I guess) a dumping ground for stolen vehicles, so they CRACKED down.

[phil71]

for whatever reason, those 400f bikes are fetching a #$%*ing mint in japan in the last year. And by that I mean $6k+ for sort of okay bikes, $9k for a mint survivor. If you can find someone who knows japanese, and can write you a decent classified, you might solve some of your problems.
 In the meantime, putting a 400F in a rebel frame is a fools errand (especially after swapping your welder). Even if you make it fit, it'll torque that thing into an oscillating pretzel in no time flat, and be a dangerous, fast road hazard.
 A rebel is like a bic lighter..

[cougar]

Hey phil71 ; While the idea of selling the bike for a few grand is appealing, with the luck that I have, LOL, that probably wouldn't happen. I can barely find things on the internet, finding someone that speaks Japanese that I would trust is even less likely, although someone else might have good fortune at that I think I'll work on a US solution. As far as the 400cc motor causing the Rebel frame to imitate a pretzel is something I did consider. The framework on the Rebel along the bottom rails is the same diameter as the 400 although the single downtube in thew front is smaller. And as far as getting of my welder, I only got rid of my little stick welder. I still have a small 110 volt flux/gas mig as well as a large 220 volt multi-process MIG/TIG/STICK unit  ! So welding something is still no problem  .                                                                                     Hey King ; I have "CycleRecycle2" in my favorites so I'll check with Rob and see if he can do something to help remedy my situation. As far as the Rebels situation. It had died on the wife a few times, always to restart. The last time it died she said she wasn't going to ride it again till I checked it out. So I took off to warm it up one day, it died about a 1/4 of a mile from the house and hasn't started since. I've checked the coils Good, checked the pulse generator within specs, wiring continuity checked Good, kill switch operational. The only thing that can't be checked is the CDI box. I bought a used CDI from Ebay and it didn't help, of course there was no Guarantee on it being good ! Although I haven't listed it anywhere, I do have a couple interested in it. The only problem there is they want it running before they buy it. And given my current situation that probably won't happen. So we'll see what pans out.   ...cougar...

[d9canada]

I agree with others, keep the 400 together because it is worth more, even though you are juggling nickels.  What would do you well is to get title.  Every DMV in all states and provinces in Canada have a "last resort" or "abandoned title" process where you can apply for title, providing only the information you have available to you.  They will do searches you cannot because of privacy laws and so long as they are comfortable, they will give you a new title.  It takes a while but a 400F is definitely worthwhile. 

Do another deal like the welder swap and get a new motor for the Rebel, or fix it.  You would spend a ton fiddling around to get the 400 to fit it anyhow.

Good luck too on the job front!

[fmctm1sw]

Try that guy impala66k on eBay.  Last I knew he was charging $125...

[cougar]

Hey King ; Sent Rob an email. Waiting to hear back.      Hey d9canada ; I wouldn't mind keeping it allive because I like the old stuff. The way they've got our "county clerk" office set-up now, it's like trying to pull hens teeth. They want you to sign in stating why your there and want to be a PITA (government, go figure) ,LOL. The motor's good just no fire, wish I could convert it to points  , that I can deal with on the cheap.                 Hey fmctm1sw ; If things don't pan out with Rob from "CycleRecycle2" I'll give your guy a shout. Was that for a title or a Titled frame?             Hey King ; The bike isn't getting any fire to the plugs and it's definately cold, LOL. And from what I've read I've tested everything that can be tested. If I could borrow a CDI from a running bike, from what I've read that's the only way to see if my CDI is bad. Well I'll keep trying to see about gettinig a title for this bike.   ...cougar...

[Bodi]

Regardless of the title being on the frame number, putting a 400-4 engine in a 250 twin bike won't be "legal" much anywhere. You'll be committing fraud by misrepresenting the engine displacement if you apply for insurance as a 250, and explaining to your broker that the title for your 250 is actually for  a 400 will be difficult. You have to hope any cop that stops you is very very stupid and doesn't notice your title doesn't match the machine... I think most can count to four. Registering the frankenbike as a custom may be much more trouble than getting a titled 400 frame.
You should probably just sell the motor. Building up a whole bike when you only have a motor tends to be very expensive. I found a relatively complete 400F, missing fenders, headlight, seat, side covers, etc. etc. etc. and priced out restoration at the time (when parts were more available used or new). That cost more than a working complete bike (at the time, again) so I gave away the frame and kept the motor and some other stuff for spare parts.