Topic: Panhead vs. Ironhead

[Prospect]

I've been seeing a number of chopper or bobbers around the city lately.  A number of them are panheads but some are old ironheads.   

I've always heard that ironheads had a poor reputation for reliability and oil leaks.  What's the genreal consensus on which is a better motor for a chopper project keeping in mind that an ironhead is half the price.  What are some things to look for in both motors?

[BAchvytrk]

Ironheads make nice chops, i've done 3 already. They are nice because they are so inexpensive and parts are still very readily available. I've learned some tricks to minimze the oil leaks on the top end. The drain plugs get gubbered alot under the crank, check this plug as this is a main source of oil leaks on these. AS far as reliabilty goes, i have not had any issues with mine, or the one i did for a friend of mine. I threw out the factory wiring harnesses and made my own from scratch. S&S carbs are well worth the money, and once you get it tuned and the ignition set up, they run great. mine were all kick only, and would start in 2-3 kicks. I've picked up all my ironheads for under 2 grand to start my build. I would love to do a panhead myself, but you just can't find them reasonably priced. Myself i wouldn't want to cut up an original pan, i've looked for engines separtely but they are pricey too, then you have to get the trans, the primary, it all adds up rather quickly. IF you'd rather go with a big twin than sportster, a shovelhead or an early evo might be a good option. You can pick up mid 70's shovels for 3-5k and be off to good start. The shovelheads are good motors, one of there flaws was the engine oil is circulated over to the primary and back, so all the clutch debris gets mixed in with the oil, but that can be changed, i did it on mine and my buddies FLH.
   Any of these old harleys are going to leak some oil, thats all there is too it. It can definetly be minimized though. Basically your pocket book will determine what your gonna build.

[754]

 To me the best looking  motor they made for a chopper is the generator shovel

 You have choices today, can be all done with good new stuff.
 Yes its more money than a Sporty but a whole different look and a bit bigger size..

 gotta really think about what you want it to do.. if you are dragracing, Sporty might be a bit easier to work with.. late one sure are..

[Prospect]

Hi Guys

Nice bikes BAchvytrk!

It's exactly the kind of information I was looking for.  I'm busy with my cb restorations and most of my money is going in that direction.  I don't see myself selling any of them anytime soon so if I do decide to build a bobber then it has to be affordable. I'm not interested in speed or power but rather the look of the motor.  I love the cb for reliability and stock look but personally don't think they look very good as bobber or choppers.  The classical v twin look is aesthetically pleasing.

I just wanted to know if they can be made to run well with modern wiring and carbs.  I'm thinking of building a mid to late sixties inspired hard tailed bobber.  No springer (to keep costs down). I don't mind the ironhead but the bottom end on them looks ugly compared to the pan or even the shovel.  Cost difference is considerable. 

[BAchvytrk]

A cool thing you can do to the ironheads is to split the rocker boxes and run an oil line between them. Helps prevent the rocker boxes from leaking and looks pretty cool too. I've had a lot of people ask me if its a knucklehead, lol(they obviously don't know much about harleys). I didn't do it to the blue one, but If you look close at the red bike you can see, i'll get a pic from the other side so you can get a better look.


i added a pic

[Prospect]

I've seen that done before.  It does look good.  I wish there was something that could be done to imporve the look of the bottom end though.

[BAchvytrk]

I've thought about cutting off the case and the primary cover where the started bolts in, i think it would look alot cleaner, but haven't had the balls to cut the case yet, lol. maybe on my next one.

[Prospect]

Ironheads make nice chops, i've done 3 already. They are nice because they are so inexpensive and parts are still very readily available. I've learned some tricks to minimze the oil leaks on the top end. The drain plugs get gubbered alot under the crank, check this plug as this is a main source of oil leaks on these. AS far as reliabilty goes, i have not had any issues with mine, or the one i did for a friend of mine. I threw out the factory wiring harnesses and made my own from scratch. S&S carbs are well worth the money, and once you get it tuned and the ignition set up, they run great. mine were all kick only, and would start in 2-3 kicks. I've picked up all my ironheads for under 2 grand to start my build. I would love to do a panhead myself, but you just can't find them reasonably priced. Myself i wouldn't want to cut up an original pan, i've looked for engines separtely but they are pricey too, then you have to get the trans, the primary, it all adds up rather quickly. IF you'd rather go with a big twin than sportster, a shovelhead or an early evo might be a good option. You can pick up mid 70's shovels for 3-5k and be off to good start. The shovelheads are good motors, one of there flaws was the engine oil is circulated over to the primary and back, so all the clutch debris gets mixed in with the oil, but that can be changed, i did it on mine and my buddies FLH.
   Any of these old harleys are going to leak some oil, thats all there is too it. It can definetly be minimized though. Basically your pocket book will determine what your gonna build.

I'm probably going to buy an ironhead because of the cost and parts availability.  Are there any specific years to stay away from? 

[754]

71 I think has one  year only parts on it head gaskets and maybe rockerboxes . earlier ones are a bit harder to get parts for ..Around 75-77 there was some weird changes in brake pedals  (resulting in short runs of parts) when they switched side, should not be a problem on a custom bike.
 If you are real lucky you may find an XR1000..mmmm..

[BAchvytrk]

754 is right, 71 is an odd year and 70 and prior are a little more pricey and little tougher to get parts for but not bad. 70 and prior were 900's and the changed to 1000's. Up to 74 were right side shift,  75 and 76 still have the shift shaft coming out the right side but have a series of linkage that crosses over so its a traditional left shift right brake. I'm not positive the year, but i think they were like this up to 78 then changed. Cams are the same for 57-70, then 71-78. all the bikes i;ve done have been in the 71-78 range. A plus to a pre 70 sporty is they run a magneto, which would allow you to run a capacitor(battery eliminator) so you don't have to find a spot to put a battery on your custom build. I tried using a battery eliminator on the red bike pictured, i had read that some people used them and you could on the 71 and newer so i tried it, doesn't work. Sure it'll start after you kick it a hundred times, same as if the battery is low or dead.   I do run the generator with the built in regulator on mine, makes it alot easier to wire, and cleaner looking.

[Prospect]

71 I think has one  year only parts on it head gaskets and maybe rockerboxes . earlier ones are a bit harder to get parts for ..Around 75-77 there was some weird changes in brake pedals  (resulting in short runs of parts) when they switched side, should not be a problem on a custom bike.
 If you are real lucky you may find an XR1000..mmmm..

754 is right, 71 is an odd year and 70 and prior are a little more pricey and little tougher to get parts for but not bad. 70 and prior were 900's and the changed to 1000's. Up to 74 were right side shift,  75 and 76 still have the shift shaft coming out the right side but have a series of linkage that crosses over so its a traditional left shift right brake. I'm not positive the year, but i think they were like this up to 78 then changed. Cams are the same for 57-70, then 71-78. all the bikes i;ve done have been in the 71-78 range. A plus to a pre 70 sporty is they run a magneto, which would allow you to run a capacitor(battery eliminator) so you don't have to find a spot to put a battery on your custom build. I tried using a battery eliminator on the red bike pictured, i had read that some people used them and you could on the 71 and newer so i tried it, doesn't work. Sure it'll start after you kick it a hundred times, same as if the battery is low or dead.   I do run the generator with the built in regulator on mine, makes it alot easier to wire, and cleaner looking.

Judging by the posts I'll look for a 72-80.  I hear the magneto bikes are a paint to start. I can't believe how cheap some of the bikes are. You can get a decent runner for $3000 but only in the US.  Up in Canada they're almost twice that and very few for sale.  Prefer electric start too.   Looking forward to learning how the US engineered bikes and comparing it to the CB's that I know. 

[Prospect]

I'm going to look at a 1974 ironhead next week in the US.  From what the owner said over the phone the only problem is the rocker box gasket leaks.  I doubt that can be replaced without taking the engine out like a cb550.  He says the compression is 110 psi.  I can't find in the manual the ideal psi for these bikes.  Anyone know?

[BAchvytrk]

I'll look into the compression and let ya know, 110 should be good, they are lower compression motors. The front rocker box can be removed by itself with the engine in place. the rear, you have to take the head off, then remove the rocker box, but this can be done with the engine in frame.  where in the us are you going to look at it? what are they asking for it?

[BAchvytrk]

service manual says minimum of 90 psi. people on the forums say around 120 is ideal. my red bike is 140, but i have 10:1 pistons. make sure you check comp with throttle wide open.

[Prospect]

I'll look into the compression and let ya know, 110 should be good, they are lower compression motors. The front rocker box can be removed by itself with the engine in place. the rear, you have to take the head off, then remove the rocker box, but this can be done with the engine in frame.  where in the us are you going to look at it? what are they asking for it?

service manual says minimum of 90 psi. people on the forums say around 120 is ideal. my red bike is 140, but i have 10:1 pistons. make sure you check comp with throttle wide open.

Thanks for the info. It's exactly what I was looking for but couldn't find it in the manual.  I have a pre 69 manual.

I'm really glad to hear that the gaskets can be replaced with the engine still in there.  I really don't want a project bike because I'm busy with my cb750 full restoration.  I'm buying the bike in Michigan for $3100.  The ad is gone already as it expired.  Hopefully my compression tester has the correct size attachment for the spark plug hole. 

I'm doing some research as to what to look for when buying these bikes.  Problem is that I'll be looking at it in the evening in the dark.  I always look at bikes in the day but I just can't make it there any other time.   

[Prospect]

I bought the ironhad this weeknd.  Trailered it across the border, paid duty and got a good look at it in the morning.  Looks good.  Rigid, s and s carb, 21 inch wheel fat bob tank.  I'll post some pics when I clean her up.

[BAchvytrk]

good deal, can't wait to see the pics. I have tons of parts, let me know if you come across anything you need.

[Prospect]

Here are the pics.  I'll need to clean up the wiring a bit and connect the oil pressure switch to the tank mounted light.  The the PO previous to this PO installed a hidden starter button that you use your boot heel to start.  Unfortunately the cover is missing and the wiring is exposed (see last pic).  I think I'll get rid of it all together and put it under the tank or seat.  There are repaired case cracks (see pic). I talked him down a bit and paid $2700 and it came with a brand new same as this one spare gas tank and battery.  New coils and wires and clutch. Rides and shifts very well.  Newish metzler tires. New generator???

I'll keep in mind your parts supply.  Thanks again for the info. 

[heffay]

Imagine the grief a guy would get coming into an HD forum and asking about a Honda chop.  I love this forum!   

[BAchvytrk]

looks like you got a good buy, solid foundation to start your build. keep me posted.

[754]

i AM REALLY CURIOUS WHAT CAUSED IT TO NEED WELDING ON UPPER REAR OF PRIMARIES..??

 Looks like a custum regulator mounted on end of generator.

[BAchvytrk]

hard to tell from the pic, might be a complete cycle electric generator/ regulator setup, or just a regulator on the stock gen, but they are much more reliable than stock, and you only need to run one hot wire to it, alot cleaner look than a stock reg unit. as far as the welding on the primary, its' possible at some point the threads got stripped out in the case, its pretty thin up there, maybe they welded it back solid and re drilled and tapped?

[Prospect]

If you look in the regulator pic you can see a weld job on the forward part of the primary too.  No other cracks or welds that I see.  Bachvytrk theory about stripped threads is what I cam up with too.  I'm pretty happy with the purchase.  Definitely not my styling of a custom job but I'll work with it.