Topic: The Runcible Racer - maduncle's CB450 project

[maduncle]

Aaaaaand...

I found a fellow rider with a good electrics knowledge so now I am close to having the wiring all done. We worked out the stator wiring to the new reg/rec and I think we have the PAMCO ignition to Dyna coils wiring worked out too.

Plus I fitted the front sprocket and chain, and the tank is half full of vinegar for a day or two.

Only down side was I fitted my old petcock that I had put a re-build kit through, and it leaks as the lever and at the bowl.

So I fitted the new one I had in stock (non -original but fits) and that is fine.

If I feel like I have to have a CB450 petcock on the bike, DCC have NOS ones - but the one on there looks fine to me.

So this weekend I will finish the tank flush and replace the stator cover and fix the stator cover leak, and then carefully fill the engine with oil.

[DustyRags]

Wooo! Post first start here!

[maduncle]

Today was another good day.

I tried the vinegar in the fuel tank trick, after two days with vinegar in the tank I drained off most of this and then threw in twenty large washers, shook the tank about and then drained off the last of the vinegar (and the 20 washers - i counted them in and counted them all out).



Flushed the tank with hot water and some bicarbonate soda to neutralise the vinegar, then blow dried the tank and tipped in a little two stroke oil, sloshed that about to line the tank to stop it flash rusting and then put the tank aside - all ready for use.

Next step - replace the stator cover with a better one.

So I went through my stator cover collection, chose one I could sand the scratches out of, polished it up and fitted it.



Good thing is - it does not leak, I slowly added the engine oil and it is now all topped up and not leaking.

Finally - I got some excellent guidance on my wiring today through a friend, so I am on to wiring up the charging system and the coils.



Might have the wiring done in another day or so.

The carbs are plumbed up, breather hose fitted to head, jerry can filled with fuel, we could see this bike going this month!

[maduncle]

Tonight I got an hour in on the tools after dinner and wired the electronic ignition up to the Dyna coils. I took power for the coils off the power lead to the horn as shown in my wiring diagram, and wired up the ignition leads as described. It is quite therapeutic to sit on my wheely stool on one side of the bike quietly stripping, crimping and connecting wires.

So now all I need to do is:

- connect the final power wire from the harness to the battery positive terminal via a fuse
- run the positive off the reg/rec through the same fuse (as recommended by an experienced motorcycle electrician)
- charge the battery
- test a few circuits for power
- flush the tank with a bit of fuel and fit it
- then see if the bike starts

Is there a 'first time starting' procedure here on the forum anywhere?

I did read something on another forum that spoke of doing around 30 kick start cranks with the ignition off to move the oil about, then ignition on and ten seconds maximum on the starter, then if no start - repeat kick start cycle to move more oil about.

Anyway - I want to approach the first time starting with extreme caution, no rushing in her, nice and easy does it.

[DustyRags]

I like your style. There's something very satisfying about saving one last, large, distinctive piece to the puzzle (like your main battery connection) that you can put together right at the end as a capstone. That's doing it right.

I've heard not more than 4 seconds on the starter to save the battery, but that's for a regular start. You might need more the first time, I don't know. It seems counterintuitive to kick the bike *more* after you tried to start it, though- doesn't the starter crank it all over anyhow? Wouldn't that get the oil flowing as well? Doesn't make sense to me (a graceless newbie, to be sure) to kick it over more after it doesn't start. Unless maybe the lack of oil is hindering it? I don't know.

When I started mine after a top-end rebuild I just went for it. But then, I oiled every bit as it went in, so...

[maduncle]

Yeah - the method i read about seemed a bit strange too, and i have pre-lubed as i built too, so i guess it will be a 'wait and see' kinda situation.

[Terry in Australia]

Don't use the electric starter to fire it up Cliff, use the kicker.

1. Take the plugs out to make it easier to kick, and check your valve covers to ensure that your oil pump is working, and pumping oil around the engine.

2. Once you're satisfied that the oil is where it should be, turn your ignition on and check that you've got a nice fat blue spark. (if you use your "electric leg", you are using most of your available electrickery turning the crank, not making a spark)

3. Turn your fuel and choke on and kick it a few more times to ensure that you've got fuel going to each cylinder, then re-install your plugs and kick it in the guts. Easy as 1,2,3! Cheers, Terry.

[maduncle]

Don't use the electric starter to fire it up Cliff, use the kicker.

1. Take the plugs out to make it easier to kick, and check your valve covers to ensure that your oil pump is working, and pumping oil around the engine.

2. Once you're satisfied that the oil is where it should be, turn your ignition on and check that you've got a nice fat blue spark. (if you use your "electric leg", you are using most of your available electrickery turning the crank, not making a spark)

3. Turn your fuel and choke on and kick it a few more times to ensure that you've got fuel going to each cylinder, then re-install your plugs and kick it in the guts. Easy as 1,2,3! Cheers, Terry.

Thanks Terry,

Want to come over this Sunday afternoon and join me in the first start attempt?

[michiganmike]

G'Day Cliff, I rode my K1 over to your place on Sunday arvo but you musn't have been home, so I chatted to a little blonde kid on a bicycle who told me how much he loved my bike, and we even had a "race" down the alley (I kicked his arse......) so that was worth the ride, ha ha!

I'm looking forward to seeing the finished parts mate, if they come out nice and shiny I might take some of my 750 parts to get done. I think (but I don't know for sure) that most Honda heads of the era (certainly all CB750 heads) were "Sandcast", it was just the cases that were diecast. Cheers, Terry.

Hello, Terry In Australia and maduncle........a little off subject , but back in '93 I met a couple of guys from Australia that were in the States picking up bikes to ship back to the country, rebuild and resell them.    Like they said, most of your weather is good year 'round, so bikes get run down fairly quickly.   they weren't very fussy, buying a wide variety of rideables...CB350 Hondas, a BSA 250 Starfire, etc.    Now yeah, I KNOW it's a VERY large continent, but his name was Paul Burgess and his company was Timewarp Cycles.  somewhere around Brisbane......I don't have a clue where you guys are, but it would be a very small world if you knew him, huh?

[Terry in Australia]

G'Day Mike, I don't know him, but I've seen adverts for Timewarp. Brisbane is around 1000 miles north of Melbourne, where Cliff and I live, but we have some Brisbane based members here, like Mick, (Retrorocket) or Dave on the Gold Coast. Cheers, Terry.

[maduncle]

Well...

I sure am learning a lot about wiring.

After last weeks epic fail I had a sense check and restarted the wiring process. So this week I tested the brake switch and found the short in the wiring (where I had extended the wires), then I tested the tail light until I determined the wiring configuration for earth, brake and tail. After that I tested my original ignition and found it wanting, so  I replaced it with an Emgo four wire switch and set the bike up so everything that needs power has it on key position one (where the key cannot be removed) and only the headlamp position indicator light and tail light has power in position two, not that I will ever use position two.

Finally, I removed the starter motor ( a long process on a CB450 that involves draining the oil) and pulled it apart to re-solder the copper tab back on to the positive power terminal. Once rebuilt, tested, fitted and re tested, I put the whole bike back together and it is ready to test fire tomorrow night.

Whilst this has been a long slow process - I have learnt so much about motorcycle electrics I am kinda glad I had problems to solve and learn from!

[DustyRags]

Awesome! That's great news, man!

[Terry in Australia]

There was an "Epic Fail" and I missed it Cliff? Bugger! Anyway, all the best, I'm off to Bairnsdale for the rest of the week so I'll have to wait until I get back to see if you got that beast up and running! Cheers, Terry.

[maduncle]

There was an "Epic Fail" and I missed it Cliff? Bugger! Anyway, all the best, I'm off to Bairnsdale for the rest of the week so I'll have to wait until I get back to see if you got that beast up and running! Cheers, Terry.

Big fat sparks leaping from the frame to the (half full) fuel tank...

+

Horn button operating the brake light...

=

EPIC FAIL

[DustyRags]

Bummer.

But ya gotta admit, a manual brakelight switch could be damn handy when the pigs come a-sniffin' round your tail.

[maduncle]

Bummer.

But ya gotta admit, a manual brakelight switch could be damn handy when the pigs come a-sniffin' round your tail.

Yeah, I did think about re labelling it the 'back off' button.

So all the electrics now do what they should do - but the mechanics don't.

The starter motor is turning but the crank isn't so I have a clutch problem with the stator/rotor set up.

Time to drop the oil and go back in...

Meanwhile, I fabricated a light gauge steel base for my seat pan upholstery. I got it to fit around the tank rear mount and the foam will be cut to accommodate the fittings.



The plan is for nice firm foam around 12mm thick, with black vinyl over the top in a ribbed (for pleasure) pattern.

[DustyRags]

Nice. My Vulcan came with a solo seat that was actually TOO firm- I didn't realize that was possible! It was like sitting on a board. But you know where I got meself some better foam? Yoga studio! I just asked if they ever sold off old loaner mats, said I didn't care if they were dirty or torn, I just didn't want to cut up a new one, and then bam! They haul out and give me one! They tried to give me several, but one was fine. Worth trying, if you want a nice, spongy-but-firm closed-cell foam.

[maduncle]

Yoga mat - yeah, good idea. I actually have some of that so I will cut a test piece and see how it feels.

[DustyRags]

Might wanna do several layers and hit them with spray glue to get them together. Great site on it here: http://diymotorcycleseat.com/

[maduncle]

It lives!

I repaired the starter clutch last night and then my friend Craig and I kick started her into life.

Runs sweet, sounds wicked, but needs to be getting more oil up top, so got a little issue to solve there.

And my tiny battery has tiny balls, just not enough amps for a chunky CB450.

So apart from battery and oil, i need to fit an upholstered seat base, fit and connect the headlamp and do the tuning.

Woo hoo.

[DustyRags]

Awesome!

[Retro Rocket]

It lives!

I repaired the starter clutch last night and then my friend Craig and I kick started her into life.

Runs sweet, sounds wicked, but needs to be getting more oil up top, so got a little issue to solve there.

And my tiny battery has tiny balls, just not enough amps for a chunky CB450.

So apart from battery and oil, i need to fit an upholstered seat base, fit and connect the headlamp and do the tuning.

Woo hoo.

Good stuff Cliff....

[maduncle]

I started to tidy up the workshop a bit this weekend, in readiness for the move (Terry - I have a box of CB750 parts, want to come and get them?).

So I bolted the CB450 together and 'posed' it (whilst it waits for the seat upholstery).







Smooth.

[Flying J]

WoW! i have not checked in here for a while. What a great job. Beautiful.

[Terry in Australia]

Very nice Cliff! Freebie 750 parts? I'm there! Hey if you need some extensions made for those exhausts, let me know. Cheers, Terry.