Topic: "barn find"

[grcamna2]

Rg,
      It seems like the last "repairman" was being more like a "repair monkey" using limited knowledge...even refusing to either have the correct service manual or follow it;a very common thing for folks to do. You(and many other members here) are a rare breed indeed. We want to repair it as it should be in a professional and quality way to match the O.E. specs that will give the machine the best chance at a long service life. I hate replacing damaged parts..some of them aren't available anymore.That lean carb. along w/ loose head pipe,spark plug,etc. was a "time bomb" ready to blow...and you are de-fusing it and setting it up for solid running for a good  long time; it's a good thing that you were the one who "inherited" or "liberated" it from the PO...with you're unique knowledge of that machine and just how to give it the TLC it needs...it's a win - win situation for you AND the scooter.

I used to think....if motorcycles had a free will...they would propel themselves over to a quality repair shop w/ a true list of it's needs and at the bottom of the list signed "Fix Me Please"  .

RG,
      I need your advice, I'm in a new area and living in the Lehigh Valley,Pa....(and I'll be moving this year to another location)and I don't know where to find a connection for a shop who would do media blasting(soda blasting to be precise).I'm hoping I'll be able to find a shop with a soda blasting cabinet to do my cylinder block fins and bring them back to a nice shine.What "key words" would I want to put into my computer to find a connection to hook me up w/ this in this area ?? any help is appreciated .

[Rgconner]

http://www.yellowpages.com/lehigh-valley-pa/soda-blasting

"Lehigh Valley,Pa soda blaster" is what I used, the link above was just the first.

I would definitely look at getting the gear and doing it yourself, might not cost much more and you will be able to do it whenever you want.

If you don't need a cabinet you could get away with the blaster and media from Harbor freight for about $150, minus whatever you can get from a coupon.

Soda is nice, if you keep it off the lawn, you can just wash away the media down the drain. It is just baking soda!

[Rgconner]

You(and many other members here) are a rare breed indeed. We want to repair it as it should be in a professional and quality way to match the O.E. specs that will give the machine the best chance at a long service life.

I am not a great mechanic, or even a very good one.

But I am very persistent and I hate doing things half way. I rather not start if I don't think I can finish.

With multiple running bikes, that becomes easier. If I am not sure what to do, or can't afford it, just set it aside, ride something else.

[grcamna2]

http://www.yellowpages.com/lehigh-valley-pa/soda-blasting

"Lehigh Valley,Pa soda blaster" is what I used, the link above was just the first.

I would definitely look at getting the gear and doing it yourself, might not cost much more and you will be able to do it whenever you want.

If you don't need a cabinet you could get away with the blaster and media from Harbor freight for about $150, minus whatever you can get from a coupon.

Soda is nice, if you keep it off the lawn, you can just wash away the media down the drain. It is just baking soda!

Rg,
  so far, after days of calling..it doesn't seem that anybody "in the Lehigh Valley" has a soda blasting cabinet...that I can find . I may have to look outside of the area.
I don't have a shop or garage w/ electricity...so I think for now I'll keep trying to have somebody do the job for me..later I can purchase my own, when I get a garage,etc. w/ elec. I sold my air compressor;I used to have electricity in my own storage locker back in Va. ...maybe I'll get that again where I'm moving to.
I'm living in an apartment here and will be again down South.

[Rgconner]

To do the work, rent or buy?

[Rgconner]

Take a look at this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/abrasive-blast-cabinet-42202.html

and 20% coupons are easy to find.

[grcamna2]

Take a look at this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/abrasive-blast-cabinet-42202.html

and 20% coupons are easy to find.

That is what I want ,but it requires a big compressor that pushes 10 cfm...that's about a 7.5-10hp machine & that is something that would require a garage or workshop(my dream ...I like to plan ahead & imagine the best.I'm looking forward to my move down South..I'll be moving to an area where there is more community spirit than here .

[Rgconner]

http://www.harborfreight.com/15-lb-portable-soda-blaster-66742.html

?

[grcamna2]

It seems that it would be best for me to get back into the M/C repair business ...how else am I going to get set up with a shop ?

[Rgconner]

Too bad there is not a Techshop near you.

[grcamna2]

Rg,
     Do you plan on getting the engine parts on the Vespa soda blasted..as far as cyl & cyl. head,etc. & do you think that procedure would polish the ports a bit ?? also as far as the 3mm longer stroke to 60mm, will that add to the pressure in the crankcase to give the incoming fuel charge more boost ? does the engine have a reed cage ?

[Rgconner]

I am not doing the 60, I am sticking with the stock length. The machinist said that will not be possible with the stock head, which is what he is basing the port job on. Adds $500 to the job, not worth the cost for the difference in torque and HP. 

However, the guy doing the port job is putting in a Japanese performance crank arm that will allow more charge to be moved to the ports. It is much lighter and leaner than the stock and because it is off of one of the most popular off road racing 2-stroke engines in the world, it is only $80.

It is a rotary valve setup, so no reeds. Reeds are really great for max power, but bad for long term reliability as the design is a compromise. 

[grcamna2]

Will you be running the stock exhaust for good all-around torque? or tuning it for more top end w/ cuts in the rotary valve to make it a screamer? That "screamer" idea I just "threw" at you is probably not recommended for good reliable street running !
I knew of a few of them...and they would always "load up" when driven slow in traffic,etc....carry a box of plugs .

[Rgconner]

The new exhaust looks just like the old one. Built from the same stamped metal forms from what I can tell.

But, it has a proper expansion chamber inside and not just a baffle. Adds power and reduces the raw gas out the back end by scavenging better.

The tuning is for the upper mid range, so cruising, not racing RPMs.

It is a little louder, but the note is mellow, so it evens out.

[grcamna2]

That must be a nice exhaust  is it an improved O.E. design ? or after market ?

[Rgconner]

It is a custom design inside an OEM case. Looks like a pillow really:

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/racing+exhaust+sip+road+for_24165000

Here is the front shock:

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/shock+absorber+sip+performance+_72000fbb

Slight overkill for not racing it, but since I ride "two up" in weight by the standards of the manual and it has a wonky aircraft nose wheel front end (modified from a bomber that Mr. Piaggio made during WII) it really makes it more reliable at speed.

The back is just a YSS shock, progressive and pre-tension adjustable. It really does not make much difference back there, so I wanted to save some money.

[grcamna2]

That custom performance muffler and front strut/shock will make your Vespa "dance well in high spirits" ...I like those improvements .I want to ask how progressive is your clutch release action? I thought you had mentioned it was really kind of "on & off"..? I wonder if you could help that any w/ the heavier flywheel that you now have because I'm wondering if you'll lose some low down "putt-putt" take off torque with these high performance mods ? No more 5-10 mph "sight seeing" ??    

[Rgconner]

No loss in the lower gears.

15 mph is a little high for 1st, start of power band in 2nd.

Flywheel is going to lose about a kilo out of 3.5 stock. That will let the engine rev more cleanly, but won't kill the added boost for takeoff.

But, you have a point. My friend in the scooter club helped me split the cases so I can rebuilt it and also showed me more of his "stable".

I rode a more or less stock P200 that he is getting around to restoring the body work. Engine is spec, and it had 4 times the power of the engine I pulled. It was pretty impressive, considering it was at the stock 12 HP

He also showed me an interesting race built Sprint 200 from the late 60's. It had 1.5kg flywheel, lots of internal mods, sub 180lbs, and get this: 2 carbs!

One fed the stock rotary valve, the other a reed valve right into the transfer port. He said it dyno-ed at 30+ hp. was totally undriveable on the street because you were either accelerating or braking, it did not like holding a steady speed.

He described it as like riding a Ducati... if the Ducati handled like a skateboard.


Gets something like 40mpg instead of 100+.

He is going to de-tune that one a bit to make it street ride-able.

[grcamna2]

I suppose it's kind of a "trade off"  , but it should still have plenty of low end grunt if you wanted to slowly & carefully "sight see" in 1st gear, correct ? How does your clutch engage/disengage ? are they ramped actuaters that are inherently(even stock) less progressive ? You mentioned that it is direct gear drive? I like that for full time positive engagement and good power transfer w/ less driveline "snatch"...it's going to be a Hot little lightweight  .

[Rgconner]

The clutch is smaller version of our CB's. 4 solid + 3 cork plates I believe. Engagement is similar, pretty steep engagement.

It also has a cush drive on the primary, which is a spring loaded drive gear that helps take the initial surge from the engine.

Otherwise, dropping the clutch on the power stroke of the engine would likely break something.

Looking up how a Vespa gearbox works is pretty interesting. It never "shifts", it moves a cruciform to lock the selected gear. Unused gears just freewheel.

[grcamna2]

When the "shifting" action is working at optimum efficiency, does it operate progressively as speed or load increases & then decreases ? or is more of a "clunky" affair where you have to wait for it to automatically disengage & engage ? & does clutch action or lack of it have a lot to do with how smooth that transition in shifting is accomplished ?? thanks for the education in Vespa  !

[Rgconner]

Well, it is a quite a bit slower shifting than the honda, unless you keep the drive really tight with aftermarket parts and lighten the flywheel. Durability over precision on the old ones.
Get to the shift point, down throttle and wait a second for it decel, then clutch and shift.


The new ones are undetectibly smooth CVTs. Instant smooth launch off the line, hard pull up to 50mph.

Open the throttle, and the engine revs to 5 or6 k and stays there until 60ish. You never feel or hear it shift.

The 550 is slower 0 to 20ish, but once revving in 2nd you match the 250 and larger bikes. By 3rd you pull much harder and have to back off or end up someone's tailpipe.

[grcamna2]

Rg,
     How many forward speeds does your P200 have ?

[Rgconner]

Four.

[grcamna2]

Rg,
      Do you think you'll rebuild the transmission with those aftermarket parts so that it will shift as good as you can get it too ? I would .