Topic: My 'primary' concern right now... is 'linked' to the bottom end.

[voxonda]

Tha chains RR and Nippon can provide are definitely a very welcome item to our bikes. The bike, currently on sale, has a set in them. This engine has had several oem chains in them and with this highly tuned engine the were 'singing' very rapidly. But this is now not the case anymore, after a season of abbuse the engine still runs like a sowing machine. Have to say the tensioner was new, of course, with a filling plate to increase tension.
 Keep up the good work CCC!!

Cheers, Rob

[BLUE71TURBO]

  " FILLING PLATE ? "            Please explain with pictures please !     

[nippon]

Rob said it all.

Thanks,

nippon

[cben750f0]

yes pls an explanation on the filling plate =)

peace

[voxonda]

This is a new tensioner.


And now with plate.

[MRieck]

I have added that preload plate to my tensioner for my 1000cc engine. I do not anticipate decreased tensioner wheel life secondary to the side plate shape of the heavy duty chains and the fact they are lighter. As a side note I'd say your real load on the chains occiurs when the throttle is suddenly chopped (dyno runs etc) not under hard acceleration.

[MCRider]

I have added that preload plate to my tensioner for my 1000cc engine. I do not anticipate decreased tensioner wheel life secondary to the side plate shape of the heavy duty chains and the fact they are lighter. As a side note I'd say your real load on the chains occiurs when the throttle is suddenly chopped (dyno runs etc) not under hard acceleration.

Agree on the wheel.

My thought was that by increasing the preload on the spring, the spring may sag earlier. Won't know till someone gets some miles on one. Hopefully that will be me!   

[lordmoonpie]

The alternative is to do the old traditional approach of CB750 Automatic crank, Hy-Vo chain and GL clutch. In that context, our chains are less than half the price of that old style approach and can be moved from one engine to another.

so is the old method only frowned upon becasue of price and conversion effort RR? Can't say I've yet had any problems with my hy-vo primary or camchain (touch wood!). I can see a heavy duty modern primary twin chain is a better option as it's a drop in replacement at cheaper overall cost but is it better or worse in any other respect?

I have a nice preloaded hy-vo tensioner, hyvo slipper camchain tensioner and it all fits and runs nicely too.....but then I'm running a 750 capacity albeit with changed bore x stroke and everythign else tuned. i'm sure it's not as stressed as a meth burning 1000cc engine...

[voxonda]

I have added that preload plate to my tensioner for my 1000cc engine. I do not anticipate decreased tensioner wheel life secondary to the side plate shape of the heavy duty chains and the fact they are lighter. As a side note I'd say your real load on the chains occiurs when the throttle is suddenly chopped (dyno runs etc) not under hard acceleration.

Agree on the wheel.

My thought was that by increasing the preload on the spring, the spring may sag earlier. Won't know till someone gets some miles on one. Hopefully that will be me!   

No such problems (yet) with the extra preload on the tensioner, both on the highly tuned and the mildly tuned version. I use this now for 3rd season.

Cheers, Rob

[MRieck]

I have added that preload plate to my tensioner for my 1000cc engine. I do not anticipate decreased tensioner wheel life secondary to the side plate shape of the heavy duty chains and the fact they are lighter. As a side note I'd say your real load on the chains occiurs when the throttle is suddenly chopped (dyno runs etc) not under hard acceleration.

Agree on the wheel.

My thought was that by increasing the preload on the spring, the spring may sag earlier. Won't know till someone gets some miles on one. Hopefully that will be me!   

No such problems (yet) with the extra preload on the tensioner, both on the highly tuned and the mildly tuned version. I use this now for 3rd season.

Cheers, Rob

That's what I like to hear Rob. Now....if somebody would offer primary cush rubbers that are a bit harder than stock but not at the "plastic" level. Hmmmmm........

[voxonda]

Purely coincidental, have lying around a new set primary cush rubbers.
Now if there would be enough 'market' I could..................................

[cben750f0]

sorry to ask a stupid question, but does the filling plate go under the mount point, and raise the whole assembly? or does it go somewhere else...lol

peace

[MCRider]

sorry to ask a stupid question, but does the filling plate go under the mount point, and raise the whole assembly? or does it go somewhere else...lol

peace

It goes between the base of the assy, and the tail of the spring. I'll look for a picture. Don't know if Rob has them on the Voxonda.com site or not.

[voxonda]

sorry to ask a stupid question, but does the filling plate go under the mount point, and raise the whole assembly? or does it go somewhere else...lol

peace

No such thing as a stupid questions, have heard of stupid answers tho.
If you look closely to the bottom picture of the tensioner you'll see where the plate sits.

Cheers, Rob

[jaguar]

I like that primary wheel mod.  will have to do that on my next motor....
I also need to call ted....should have last week but got caught up with work and life...

[mick7504]

Back in the 70's we would braze a piece of flat onto the tensioner base.
Every motor that was split had this done to the old tensioner providing that it looked half reasonable.

I didn't hear of anyone having a problem at a later stage - Only praise for shutting those friggen chains up. 

[MCRider]

Wow! That's cool to know. And I'm assuming Rob's similar fix with the shim was independent of your (shop's) idea?

Goes to show the powers of coincidence.

[mick7504]

Wow! That's cool to know. And I'm assuming Rob's similar fix with the shim was independent of your (shop's) idea?

Goes to show the powers of coincidence.

Ron

I had never seen or thought of the shim idea before until recently.
The metal block idea was what we were shown way back and there wasn't any need to think outside of the square because it served it's purpose.
Just goes to show that there are always new tricks for old dogs. 

Mick

[MCRider]

Yup.

I'd never heard or seen of this in the USA. I got out of the shops around 1975. We had loud chains then too.

And I at least stayed in the loop with mechanics and speed shops till 1980 or so. Never saw it.

Just you Aussies and Euro guys.

[voxonda]

There are more ways leading to Rome. I came up with the preload plate back in the mid-70's. I first tried to 'open up' the spring by forcing it open.........bad idea. After a few miles the spring broke and had to open the engine again. Back then with my very small paycheck, not good. So had to find something different and came up with this plate. It has been in every engine I build and honestly never heard of problems with it. Do not misunderstand it is no miracle and the chains will wear out, but it will keep 'following' the chains better and for a longer time.

Rob

[MCRider]

Rob: Thanks for sharijng your trick when you didn't have to. It makes my engine feel special, as much as the high priced items.

(and Mick)

[cben750f0]

that is simple yet brilliant, thanx heaps for shareing.... though i am not going to pull my motor just yet to do it...lol

peace

[simon#42]

There are more ways leading to Rome. I came up with the preload plate back in the mid-70's. I first tried to 'open up' the spring by forcing it open.........bad idea. After a few miles the spring broke and had to open the engine again. Back then with my very small paycheck, not good. So had to find something different and came up with this plate. It has been in every engine I build and honestly never heard of problems with it. Do not misunderstand it is no miracle and the chains will wear out, but it will keep 'following' the chains better and for a longer time.

Rob

rob i can see exactly why you have done this mod but it will only be effective when accelerating or idling . the real weakness of the honda design is that on overun [i.e. entering a corner  with the bike in gear , the clutch out and the throttle closed ]  the combined weight of the bike and rider are pulling on that lower run of the chain , it doesn't mater how many springs or shims are in there , the tensioner will back off , all the slack will be on the top run of the chain . at best it will thrash around and loose its lube before it gets to the crank sprocket , at worst , and if the chain is worn it will try to climb up over the crank sprocket and break the chain , i dont think a hyvo chain is the answer in fact it would probably be worse due to its weight .  obviously you cant lock the standard tensioner as it would just snap but would it be possible to make a tensioner that could be adjusted and then locked ?  it would need a couple more mounting points  , im sure a man of your talent should be able to sort one out given a couple of hours !

[voxonda]

Hey Simon,

I do totally agree with you. But at the time had no clue, we've learned a lot since then but pratice tells me that this will do the engine more good than worse, tho not the ultimate solution. On the Turbo engine I am developing now I have made a slipperplate in the topcase which will help the tensioner and will protect the case from the chainslack.

Cheers, Rob

[mick7504]

There are more ways leading to Rome. I came up with the preload plate back in the mid-70's. I first tried to 'open up' the spring by forcing it open.........bad idea. After a few miles the spring broke and had to open the engine again. Back then with my very small paycheck, not good. So had to find something different and came up with this plate. It has been in every engine I build and honestly never heard of problems with it. Do not misunderstand it is no miracle and the chains will wear out, but it will keep 'following' the chains better and for a longer time.

Rob

Hey Rob

I'm fairly certain that we have all been through the very smallpaycheck thing at one time or another.
This is probably why we have come up with these different ideas to improvise and improve on what was already there.

With the HD chains and and a bit if extra preload on the tensioner, I think that the possibility of a chain breakage would be less than that of winning the lotto. 

This afternoon, I assembled a set of cases with HD chains and a modified tensioner, and I just cannot see how those chains are going to whip/snap and cause internal damage.
They really do look bulletproof.

Mick