Topic: exhaust screws in head 5 of 8 out--3 questions

[judder]

Hi well I've got 5 of the little bastards out with not too much trouble, but am having a tough time getting at #2 and #3 cylinders. The frame is making it tough to get to the two top screws and one of the bottom screws doesn't want to move. I've used a bit of heat, penetrating oil and a quite a few heavy hits on the impact driver.

3 questions:

1. Can I beat on the screw too much with my hand impact screwdriver? Don't want to do serious damage to the head.
2. Do I dare use heat and if so how much, don't want to warp anything. I've already used a bit of heat.
3. What do I do if everything doesn't work? Do I dare drill? I really don't want to screw up my head.


Thanks for any advice you can give.

Jud

[cameron]

A) Drilling is fine, and the definitive answer. I always drill when foiled.., and never try easy-outs or anything. It is quick, and trivial if you have replacements. Just drill off the head of the fastener, don't touch the engine.

B) A fun little trick you may or may not to be able to try.... try loosening them up when the ENGINE is hot, like after a nice ride. The metal of the screws expands at a different rate than the head.. so sometimes it is a whole different thing.
Obv, you might not be up and running right now, in which case I think heat is a good idea.

[grcamna2]

Jud,
       You may need to drill them just enough to install a large enough easy out;once you drill straightly,Dead Center(the head really should come off to do it correctly) into & all the way through the 6mm stud(be careful to stop when you're through it...go slow)you will relieve the inner stress on the 6mm stud & you can then spray PLENTY OF WD40 or PB blaster,etc. into the hole, MANY applications or a good amount of time until you decide it's enough to begin w/ the easy out.The machine shop will do basically the same thing to start with if you bring it to them,only they will have the benefit of having the head removed so they can get a dead on center punch mark.I have used a standard punch to flatten out the end of the broken stud before giving it my best straight  on center punch mark;a tedious process w/ the cyl head on the bike,but it can be done.
If the studs aren't broken off, you still have a chance w/ some very localized heat from a very small torch tip Around the edges of the Cyl. head threads that surround the 6mm exhaust stud.
 
          AS cameron has just posted that he never uses easy outs...there is a big chance of breaking off the "easy out" inside the 6mm stud, which is a Horrible scenario;I prefer the square ones over the swirl ones any day.
I leave it up to your judgement.To drill them out & clean 'em up w/ a tap correctly & straightly,the cyl. head should be removed.

ALL the Best to you; I do hope you can remove them w/ a bit of patient persuasion!

[judder]

Thanks for replies,
I have not broken anything on the bike yet so I think I'm going to be patient and keep working at them with the impact, penetrating oil and some heat. It seems they always come out in the end at least from what I've been reading. I'm really scared to start drilling unless I have no other choice. It always gets messy when I start drilling. I really don't want to pull the motor and then pull the head off because I wanted a new exhaust on a perfectly good bike : ) It always looks so easy on TV.

Thanks

Jud

[scottly]

Jud,
       You may need to drill them just enough to install a large enough easy out;

Easy-out=disaster. They should be banned from the face of the the earth, IMHO.

[Hondawggie]

Thanks for replies,
I have not broken anything on the bike yet so I think I'm going to be patient and keep working at them with the impact, penetrating oil and some heat. It seems they always come out in the end at least from what I've been reading. I'm really scared to start drilling unless I have no other choice. It always gets messy when I start drilling. I really don't want to pull the motor and then pull the head off because I wanted a new exhaust on a perfectly good bike : ) It always looks so easy on TV.

Thanks

Jud

Theres a real opportunity out there to invent a non-breakable 'easy-out'. the dang things should be called 'jokes on you buddy'

never use an easy out on a mission critical stuck fastener situation which is what you have there

it is counter intuitive but to break a fastener loose I mean JUST TO GET It moving and to break the oxidation thats keeping the fastener stuck is -- to go the opposite direction to tighten it JUST TO BREAK THE BOND dont overdo it then once the bond is broke then you might be able to get it off

easy outs eat Saturdays

[Steve_K]

I have used Grab Its with more success than EZ outs.  Even using a Bridgeport mill it is difficult to have success with EZ outs.  We have found Grab Its to work better.  It is sold at Sears and other places and maybe under different names.  Uses a hand drill that turns left handed.

I have also have good sucess using left hand drills.

Heat and PB blaster and take your time, don't turn too hard(broken parts will tell what too much is).
Good luck
Steve

[grcamna2]

Steve_K,
               I am interested in that product you call a "grab it",you say Sears...can you post a pic for me so I can visually identify the tool?;I want to ask if Sears is the best place to get them or are there other tool suppliers that carry them ?? I have used a special socket that literally grabs the stud w/ 3 rollers;is this the tool you are describing ?

[onepieceatatime]

http://www.amazon.com/Alden-8530P-Grabit-Damaged-Remover/dp/B000ETLK7O

[Don R]

Heat and candle wax or beeswax for a penetrating lube. I have used the sears grab it, left hand drill/easy out with good success. It is a LH drill bit that has a cone shaped left hand threaded sleeve over it, they come in a set. You still need to know when to stop twisting it though. Anything that small can be broken if you try hard enough.
 I have had god luck with my sears battery impact and my lucky snap on phillips bit. It seems to fit these screws perfectly. I tried to buy another one and of course they don't have that part number anymore.

[grcamna2]

Heat and candle wax or beeswax for a penetrating lube. I have used the sears grab it, left hand drill/easy out with good success. It is a LH drill bit that has a cone shaped left hand threaded sleeve over it, they come in a set. You still need to know when to stop twisting it though. Anything that small can be broken if you try hard enough.
 I have had god luck with my sears battery impact and my lucky snap on phillips bit. It seems to fit these screws perfectly. I tried to buy another one and of course they don't have that part number anymore.

Don R,

           Have you ever,or would you consider using a "hammer drill"(which is used for drilling into concrete)to put into reverse to kind of "impact" the Grabbit tool to back out the broken stud? or was a variable speed drill enough to accomplish the task ??
Thanks for the link/picture onepieceatatime...I think some day I may learn how to drill very straight;I have to go at it  lowww....stressss & relax more.  "it WILL come out...it WILL come out THIS time,...it WILL come out...YES !

[Steve_K]

Posted by: onepieceatatime



http://www.amazon.com/Alden-8530P-Grabit-Damaged-Remover/dp/B000ETLK7O

That is exactly what I was talking about.
Steve_K