Author Topic: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition  (Read 18604 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2011, 08:07:44 PM »
For those who have asked:

my Transistorized Ignition (aka Hondaman Ignition) operates from 3.8 volts to 24 volts without change, but will operate the 6-volt bikes better (when cold) with a slight mod I do if I know it will be for a 6 volt engine. It reduces high-RPM spark droop through controlled coil field breakdown rate (yes, Patent Pending, research ensuing to ensure non-conflict with Ford) through 16,000 crank RPM. It also removes the cold-blooded tendencies of the more inexpensive, temperature-sensitive tungsten points we are all suffering today (unless you are fortunate enough to have the superior TEC points) by always providing the full coil switching current, from startup.

Honda's coils produce more voltage when warmed up to about 80 degrees F or more. They droop significantly below 50 degrees F (about 6500 volts output on cold start), and don't droop up high until over 180 degrees, and then not very much (about 7200 volts, compared to normal 7500 volt output). Their magnetic design is better on the coils made after 1995, when they became the ones you can buy today, with higher dielectric rated insulation on the bobbin wires and better lamination uniformity on the metal plates that make up their cores. My unit senses this difference in the coils and alters their discharge rate accordingly, which provides the more uniform spark voltage over the whole range. While it has a limited range over which this works, this range falls directly in line with the types of coils used by Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Yamaha on their points-fired bikes from 1964 through 1980. most of which were designed by Denso Hokai.

Thanks for prodding me...  ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline brandEn

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2011, 08:23:01 PM »
BrandEn, which of the programmable advance curves are you using with your Dyna 2000? From what I've read, there is only one curve that comes close to the stock curve, and if I recall correctly, it was a bit slow for our bikes.
I am using advance curve 3. I am not stock though. Wiseco 750F2 836, Webcam 41a, CR 29 Carbs, and mild porting.
I am just wondering if the Pamco is something to consider for a hotted up motor because it really sounds like the way to go for a stock motor if you want to ditch the points.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 08:25:51 PM by brandEn »

Offline scottly

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2011, 08:32:54 PM »
Do you know off the top of your head what the max advance is, and what RPM it occurs at for curve 3?
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Offline brandEn

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2011, 08:39:44 PM »
Curve # 3
span 20 deg
full timing at 6500 rpm
"curves 1,2,3 generate a curve that changes a total of 20 deg from idle to high rpm. This means that if you set the crank trigger to 35 deg, at idle you will have 20 deg less than this, or 15 deg advance at idle."

Offline dave500

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2011, 08:45:12 PM »
i would hazard a guess and suggest that a percentage of dyna failures on what ever brand or model bike are customer install errors?wrong coils and out of spec charging come to mind,as well as the obligatory reversed battery hook up?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 08:46:49 PM by dave500 »

Offline scottly

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2011, 08:46:57 PM »

full timing at 6500 rpm

Too slow; full advance for a performance application on a SOHC should be all in by 2500-3000 RPM.
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Offline brandEn

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2011, 08:51:06 PM »
Really? My Dyna 2000 instructions say
Curve #1 20 deg span, full timing at 2500rpm, application= 4 valve stock.
Curve #2 20 deg span, full timing at 4500 rpm, application= 4 valve increased compression
Curve#3 20 deg span, full timing at 6500 rpm, application= 4 valve high compression

Offline scottly

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2011, 08:59:43 PM »
Try curve 1. That is the closest to our 2 valve motors. The curve that comes in at 6500 is better suited for a motor with a 14,000 RPM redline.
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Offline dave500

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2011, 09:08:06 PM »
umm?the 4 valve quote in the instructions,a sohc has eight valves,two per cylinder,,have you got the wrong dyna?maybe for a dohc?

Offline scottly

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2011, 09:11:03 PM »
Dyna 2000 is a "universal" system. Not specifically for SOHCs.
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Offline brandEn

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2011, 09:12:40 PM »
How about;
curve #4 25 deg span, full timing at 3500rpm, application= 2 valve stock
curve #5 25 deg span, full timing at 6500 rpm, application= 2 valve high compression

My bike runs great BTW. I wasn't really looking for help with my timing but I love to tinker so I will try the other curves. Just wondering about the Pamco...

Offline dave500

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2011, 09:15:38 PM »
Dyna 2000 is a "universal" system. Not specifically for SOHCs.

ok cool.

Offline scottly

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2011, 09:17:08 PM »
If I'm not mistaken, and forgive me if I am, the pamco uses the stock mechanical advance.
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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2011, 09:39:21 PM »
That's completely dissapointing if the expensive Dyna 2000 can only do '25 deg. with full advance @ 3,500 rpm'... that's a full 10 degrees and 500-1,000 rpm away from the motors design......... Advance angle = 35deg., full advance @ 2,500 ( K1 750 ), maybe 3,000 rpm on later bikes ........ thats retarded, in every sense of the word  ;) :D
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
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Offline dave500

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #64 on: November 23, 2011, 09:41:56 PM »
that will be from the static advance,,if you pull 10 out of the total itll be too obvious,the 25 refers to the amount of difference,eg 10 static plus 25 = 35,and the actual curve amount,i run a car with 18 initial,,the mechanical is restricetd to suit so is about 14 mechanical,but the vac is up to 40+ on cruise.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 09:48:07 PM by dave500 »

Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #65 on: November 23, 2011, 09:49:55 PM »
Dave if you only have 25deg. 'range' it's impossible to get the static and full advance right, can't be done vs. stock.....if you advance the idle timing 10 deg. your askin' for engine knock ( and worse )  :o
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
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Offline dave500

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #66 on: November 23, 2011, 09:51:01 PM »
i dont get your post?

Offline dave500

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #67 on: November 23, 2011, 09:52:42 PM »
time out.

Offline dave500

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #68 on: November 23, 2011, 09:57:44 PM »
you guys must get #$%* fuel,ill often advance any engine untill it pings under load then pull it back till it stops,itll always be more advanced than any spec for that engine,,the more advance you can run with out detonation is the goal,its free horsepower,,if anyone decides to abide by any manufactures specs thats their choice.

Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #69 on: November 23, 2011, 10:01:33 PM »
O.K..... my bad (rarely happens  :D)... the 25deg. is after static timing, which is about 10 deg. advance already, so static ( idle ) + 25 deg. advance = 35 deg.
Actually still confused as a 25 deg, 'span' could mean 'all available advance'... so idle = 0deg. and max. = 25deg. ??
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 10:08:11 PM by Spanner 1 »
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If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Offline dave500

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #70 on: November 23, 2011, 10:03:50 PM »
yeah cool,i dont know how but i can crunch numbers in my head but was terrible at math in school,,maybe if some of the examples like"mary has a 750 four with an over retarded worn points cam lobe,how much advance is she missing out on"?was used in class id have been better?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 10:07:58 PM by dave500 »

Offline dave500

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #71 on: November 23, 2011, 10:20:26 PM »
span or range or what ever,some of the install instructions on any aftermarket thing can be sometimes not entirely clear,and assume you know how the unit you bought was made,,i think also this is how some units of any brand get fried or damaged and fail shortly after or dont give expected results?

Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #72 on: November 23, 2011, 10:41:18 PM »
Seems with the Dyna 2000 the mechanical advance is removed entirely so no 'F' mark is available for static ( idle) timing reference, which is actually 10 deg. BTDC. So select option 4 is all you can do . Option 4 is a 'span' of 25 deg., reaching 25 deg. @ 3,500 rpm. 25 deg. from what ? From 0 deg. static ? How does the ign. 'know' the static timing needs to be @ 10 deg . BTDC ( advance ) ??
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Offline brandEn

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #73 on: November 23, 2011, 10:42:20 PM »
Just checked, I indeed am running curve 4..., also the ignition plate is marked F
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 10:45:29 PM by brandEn »

Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Dyna S Versus Cycle X High Performance Ignition
« Reply #74 on: November 23, 2011, 10:55:00 PM »
O.K. great, so the plate ( with F and T marks ) is retained but not the advancer and it's springs, right ?
Wait now,  the Dyna plate is marked 'F', is that it ?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 10:57:36 PM by Spanner 1 »
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....