Topic: K&N vs. stock air filter

[longshanks]

whoa. lots happened since i left this post. can't we all just get along?   

[longshanks]

Regarding oiled foam filters: I have been using them on my 836 for over 30 years now, clamped over velocity stacks. Yes, they do tend to disintegrate after 15 years or so, but they do seem to filter well.
My HONDA CR480R, which was designed to be operated in hostile environments, came fitted with a foam filter from the factory.

K&N pod filters clamped over velocity stacks? can i see pictures? 

[dave500]

whoa. lots happened since i left this post. can't we all just get along?   

its neil from the young ones tv show.

[mrbreeze]

Regarding oiled foam filters: I have been using them on my 836 for over 30 years now, clamped over velocity stacks. Yes, they do tend to disintegrate after 15 years or so, but they do seem to filter well.
My HONDA CR480R, which was designed to be operated in hostile environments, came fitted with a foam filter from the factory.

K&N pod filters clamped over velocity stacks? can i see pictures? 

He said oiled foam filters.....not K&N pods.

[Deltarider]

Bobistheoilguy wrote: I actually received an e-mail from K&N stating their filters filter within 99% of the OEM filters. 
I'm afraid for me that's not good enough. I've learned from Mann+Hummel (one of the biggest filtermanufacturers in Germany) that when airfilter A filters out 99,8 % of the particles and airfilter B 99%, enginewear with B is already fourfold. Mann+Hummel also informed me that a new paper filter element doesn't filter as well as an used one. There is no pressuredrop until the very last of it's lifetime. This is in line with what I've heard before from an importer of filters, who btw, would have an interest in lying about this! Still bikers go on changing their filters prematurely.
Question for you K&N adepts: why hasn't K&N become the major supplier for Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha and who else more? 
I know, dull rules on noise etc. I think they are good rules and for more performance there are other bikes.

[dave500]

any and all percentage quotes are either lies or just wrong,,heck,,87.9% of all sohc forum members know that!its the micron entrapment that really matters i think,,although i might be about 34.7% wrong in this case.

[Retro Rocket]

any and all percentage quotes are either lies or just wrong,,heck,,87.9% of all sohc forum members know that!its the micron entrapment that really matters i think,,although i might be about 34.7% wrong in this case.

I agree with you 100% but only 75% of others here will......

[Terry in Australia]

Hey Dave, when I rebuilt my first K1 in 1981/82 (bought from a mate for 200 bucks, and he chucked in a crashed K0 for another 100 bucks for parts, which I gave away.....) after an oilway blocked and I cooked the whole top end, I installed first oversize Honda pistons, new cam towers, new rockers, and a new mild Andrews cam, because it was cheaper than the stocker.

It already had the old round K&N pods and a 4 into 2 Walker exhaust, but otherwise, it was very close to stock. It was my daily rider and I rode it like that for four years without any problems, including a couple of trips to Bathurst. In that time I did around 34,000 Km's (around 20,000 miles for our non-metric pals) and the only problems I had was the stock plug leads arcing against the frame in wet weather. I "heatshrunk" some more rubber insulation over the leads and that solved the problem.

I had two other mates who had CB750's at the same time, Davey, with his K2 that he bought new in 1972, (and he still has it) was also running K&N pods with dragpipes and an electronic ignition, and Pete, his brother, with a bog stock K2. My K1 was a tad quicker that Pete's standard bike, and a tad slower than Davey's. I didn't notice any problems in wet weather, crosswinds etc, it started easy and had no "flat spots", but when the points got to the stage where they needed replacing I installed a Martek ignition like Davey's, and it started and warmed up even better and pulled like a train, and was the quickest of all three bikes. I only sold it to finance a Kawasaki Z900, a bike that I'd wanted for many years.

I've never owned a 500/550 (I did restore a 350F, but left it standard) so I can't speak for them, but have owned over 20 CB750's and have been able to get considerably more performance from them just by adding aftermarket parts and tinkering with them. Off track a bit, I installed a K&N filter, a Jardine "Big Boss" exhaust system and a Dynojet Power Commander III to my stock Triumph Rocket III and had it Dyno'd at Melbourne Triumph, and was happy with an additional 23 BHP and 27 foot pounds of torque at the back wheel. I was pretty happy with that power increase, without having to open up the engine. Cheers, Terry.    

[Retro Rocket]

Man that Triumph must have some torque.....

[Terry in Australia]

Man that Triumph must have some torque.....

Yeah Mick, it's got 141 BHP and 147 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheel. It's really scary fun..............

[Retro Rocket]

Christ, thats more talk than my old 6 cylinder Torana had,.

[Terry in Australia]

Christ, thats more talk than my old 6 cylinder Torana had,.

Yeah mate, and it weighs a bit less too. (not much less, ha ha!)

[RustyJC]

Hard, objective ISO 5011 testing of K&N versus competitive filter media presented here --> http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm.

Rusty

[grcamna2]

Those tests seem to be very complete;I never saw anyone do such a test, Thanks.

[mrbreeze]

Hey Dave, when I rebuilt my first K1 in 1981/82 (bought from a mate for 200 bucks, and he chucked in a crashed K0 for another 100 bucks for parts, which I gave away.....) after an oilway blocked and I cooked the whole top end, I installed first oversize Honda pistons, new cam towers, new rockers, and a new mild Andrews cam, because it was cheaper than the stocker.

It already had the old round K&N pods and a 4 into 2 Walker exhaust, but otherwise, it was very close to stock. It was my daily rider and I rode it like that for four years without any problems, including a couple of trips to Bathurst. In that time I did around 34,000 Km's (around 20,000 miles for our non-metric pals) and the only problems I had was the stock plug leads arcing against the frame in wet weather. I "heatshrunk" some more rubber insulation over the leads and that solved the problem.

I had two other mates who had CB750's at the same time, Davey, with his K2 that he bought new in 1972, (and he still has it) was also running K&N pods with dragpipes and an electronic ignition, and Pete, his brother, with a bog stock K2. My K1 was a tad quicker that Pete's standard bike, and a tad slower than Davey's. I didn't notice any problems in wet weather, crosswinds etc, it started easy and had no "flat spots", but when the points got to the stage where they needed replacing I installed a Martek ignition like Davey's, and it started and warmed up even better and pulled like a train, and was the quickest of all three bikes. I only sold it to finance a Kawasaki Z900, a bike that I'd wanted for many years.

I've never owned a 500/550 (I did restore a 350F, but left it standard) so I can't speak for them, but have owned over 20 CB750's and have been able to get considerably more performance from them just by adding aftermarket parts and tinkering with them. Off track a bit, I installed a K&N filter, a Jardine "Big Boss" exhaust system and a Dynojet Power Commander III to my stock Triumph Rocket III and had it Dyno'd at Melbourne Triumph, and was happy with an additional 23 BHP and 27 foot pounds of torque at the back wheel. I was pretty happy with that power increase, without having to open up the engine. Cheers, Terry.

You know I love my Hondas Terry but if a Z1 Kawi came into the mix......bye-bye Honda!!! Besides.....I could always get another one and easier than getting another Z bike.

[Deltarider]

You know I love my Hondas Terry but if a Z1 Kawi came into the mix......bye-bye Honda!!! Besides.....I could always get another one and easier than getting another Z bike.

Well... that tells you, doesn't it?
 

[d9canada]

There are efficiencies designed into the system of airboxes applied to CV carbs and that technology probably was in development even with the earlier carbs.  It's one thing to compare a K&N type vs stock paper in the airbox and an entirely different issue if you apply pods.

Also, having run heavy equipment for years in all sorts of conditions, we did oil analysis on every oil change.  One of the common issues that cropped up is elevated silicon traces in the engine oil.  The cause - dirty air filter.  So, the contention that a dirty air filter is more efficient is just baloney.  And you might note that heavy equipment & truck manufacturers use paper elements.

Ultimately the decision to run stacks, pods or airboxes with some form of filter depends on your concern for appearance, performance (real or imagined) and reliability.

[mrbreeze]

You know I love my Hondas Terry but if a Z1 Kawi came into the mix......bye-bye Honda!!! Besides.....I could always get another one and easier than getting another Z bike.

Well... that tells you, doesn't it?
 

Tells you what Delta?

[Deltarider]

 

So, the contention that a dirty air filter is more efficient is just baloney.

Who's talking about dirty air filters?

And you might note that heavy equipment & truck manufacturers use paper elements.

Overhere we use oilbathfilters for them.

[Deltarider]

Tells you what Delta?

I'll spell it for you: there were many more Fours sold than 'Z's. There was a reason for it. And there are many more Fours still on the roads. There also is a reason for it. That's explains why it is much easier acquiring a Four than a 'Z'.
Wasn't too difficult after all, now was it?

Thanks Rusty for posting that test. Confirmed almost everything I've learned through other sources.

[mrbreeze]

Woah......didn't realize you were such a smart a$$ there Delta but if ya wanna play....I'm always game

[mrbreeze]

Your last post really pi$$es me off dude.....................Gee......I had no idea that Honda made more bikes or that there was a reason for it!!! I was really just commenting to Terry or anyone else interested that the Z bikes rock and are harder to come by. If ya can't play nice.......mind yer own  %$@@#% business................

[Deltarider]

Language, language...

[mrbreeze]

Language, language...

wuteva dude.................

[DH]

Anyone who runs a stock style K/N know how to soften up the rubber on one?  (so it'll fit back in the box properly) Mine seems
like it shrunk slightly and needs to be streched out a little..