Author Topic: Straighten out crooked valves?  (Read 8707 times)

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Offline persson-johan@hotmail.com

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Straighten out crooked valves?
« on: December 06, 2011, 10:03:58 AM »
A little misshap happened with my bike. I got a crooked valve. I straightened it out in the lathe and grinded the valve and then lapped it to the head.

Did a vacuum test and its 100% good. But can you trust that valve or is the metal stressed for straighten it out? I know that many does it in dragracing and cars etc. but in a bike?

/Johan (Sweden)

Offline lone*X

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Re: Straighten out crooked valves?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2011, 10:39:32 AM »
Did you have to remove metal from the stem?  Wondering how you use a lathe to straighten a bent valve.  If you removed any metal you will have a sloppy fit in the valve guide and it will not run for very long before it fails.
Lone*X  ( Don )

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Offline persson-johan@hotmail.com

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Re: Straighten out crooked valves?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2011, 10:55:38 AM »
No, just had it as reference point, i gently got it straight by tapping on it, checking, tap etc.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Straighten out crooked valves?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2011, 11:23:21 AM »
Bending metal "work hardens" it and leaves it more brittle.  The severity and frequency of the bending contributes to work hardening.

I don't know what the original valve was heat tempered, or to what spec.  But, if it was re-tempered to original specs after straightening, it should work as new.  If it was simply bent back from tiny movement, it may still be within hardness tolerance.

Of course, if it has become more brittle, it has more of a tendency to snap, particularly if the race springs are used.

Hard to asses your actual risk level without some test data.  What bent it in the first place? ...and how much?

I seems you are looking for a black and white answer without providing the data to make such an assessment.  I can tell you from experience that a snapped off valve head can ruin a great deal of the motor.  (different engine and valve type, but the results are similar)

The picture below shows parts from my Lycoming engine.  I show it as a means to illustrate what happens when a valve head breaks off.  I'm not saying yours will.  And the Lycoming parts are certainly different from Honda.
Anyway, my mechanic told me I was lucky.  If the broken portion hadn't found the exhaust port, it would have eventually beaten a hole in the piston crown and contaminated/damaged the lower end and oil supply, too.  As it was, a new piston, ring, valve job, and some re-contouring of the cylinder head combustion chamber, got the engine working again.  That's quite a bit cheaper than a whole new engine.

 I did get the brown stains off my seat, btw.  ;D  jk

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline camelman

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Re: Straighten out crooked valves?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2011, 11:24:34 AM »
Man, I know we are going to get flamed for this, but I've done it before without issue.  I did it on a car engine after watching some redneck on youtube talk about doing it on motorcycle engines... that might make me a redneck too.  ;-)  However, after looking into it more, I found loads of statements from motorcycle and car mechanics on various forums about doing the same.  Plus, if you've ever watched internal cameras on running engines, then you know that our valves bounce around a lot more than any shade tree mechanic thinks they do.

And that... is the crux of my argument on these types of "engineering" fixes.  I find that more shade tree mechanics get worried about sweating the small stuff than do actual mechanics with years of practical experience.  So, to that end, I say go ahead and use it if it slides freely in the guide and you didn't have to remove any material from the stem.  When I straightened valves (16 of them on a car engine), I did it by sliding them up and down in the head and bending them back into shape with a screwdriver until they slid smoothly and sat true in the head.  Those valves gave thousands more miles of service and never had an issue or tapped.

Regards,
Camelman
1972 350f rider: sold
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Offline KJ790

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Re: Straighten out crooked valves?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2011, 11:37:57 AM »
Valves are so cheap for these bikes compared to what it costs when a suspect valve breaks, I don't know why you would bother straightening one. I've had to pay for the repairs from dropped valves on race bikes in the past. To me, if there is any question about a valve, it gets replaced with a new one.
The most dangerous part of a motorcycle is the nut that connects the handlebars to the footpegs.

Offline persson-johan@hotmail.com

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Re: Straighten out crooked valves?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2011, 11:40:57 AM »
Hehe, ofcourse its a hard question to answer but i just wanted some tips and if anyone had done it on bikes.

Ive also done it on cars but that been on like old volvos that dont rev over 3500 rpm.

Johan (sweden)

Offline camelman

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Re: Straighten out crooked valves?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2011, 12:08:24 PM »
Joper,

Thanks for chiming in.  I didn't want to be the only one here standing up for it.

The engine I did it on redlined at 6500 or so, and we took it there regularly to see if it would hold.  It was an interesting experiment, and the valves never failed.  Heck, the engine made noticeably more power after I straightened the valves than before, and I didn't even lap them!  I wonder if that means the valves were bent before the head gasket blew.

Camelman
1972 350f rider: sold
1972 350f/466f cafe: for sale
1977 CB400f cafe:sold
1975 CB400f rider: sold
1970 CB750 K0 complete bike: sold
2005 Triumph Sprint ST 1050 rider

We've got to cut it off... and then come down on rockets.  (quoted from: seven minutes of terror)

Offline phil71

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Re: Straighten out crooked valves?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2011, 12:22:24 PM »
+1 for work hardening. Since its already re-assembled , why bother asking about this? The "tough love" truth of this is that you spent hours straightening a $12 part , and it is Definietly less durable now. If you make even minimum wage, you still lost $ fixing this.

Offline phil71

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Re: Straighten out crooked valves?
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2011, 12:23:34 PM »
P.S. I'm kind of impressed anyway.

Offline persson-johan@hotmail.com

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Re: Straighten out crooked valves?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2011, 12:45:27 PM »
It took about 15 minutes :) havent put i together yet tho, and the valves aint that cheap in sweden!

Offline MRieck

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Re: Straighten out crooked valves?
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2011, 01:02:34 PM »
I haven't done it but I've seen it done several times for car stuff. One instance  was because the engine had to get back together and there was no time to get a replacement. Plus they were big money. The engine was roadraced and appeared none the worse for wear. It trued up to .0005.
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Offline somesuch

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Re: Straighten out crooked valves?
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2011, 01:15:40 PM »
I have done it on a couple of motors with no problems. XS11 and 92 GSXR750 were the bikes.


Offline faux fiddy

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Re: Straighten out crooked valves?
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2011, 09:46:08 PM »
No, just had it as reference point, i gently got it straight by tapping on it, checking, tap etc.

Ii can be done, no problem, though it was my friend that actually did it on a car valve.

Easier done on a bridgeport mill using pinch blocks. Forge ahead, but I have also seen ones bent bad enough that replacement was absolutely necessesary. It is obvious what can and can't be done once they are folded over.
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